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I think advising people who believe they have a valid ticket to push through the gateline is, in general, poor advice. We see many cases here where people believe they have a valid ticket but in fact don't, and recommending that they commit an offence to address the situation won't help them if they are indeed stopped. It may well be that at the station under discussion nobody would stop them, but that won't always be the case.
Sure, but in this case it is unequivocally a valid ticket, and they were being apparently detained - prevented from leaving - by the staff.
If this is me I am certainly pushing through the gates, and past the staff, and leaving, as I am entitled to do. And nothing will happen to me. But it's never me anyway; I'm a confident and articulate white man in his 30s who doesn't look like a pushover.
I don't care if it's a bylaw offence; so is not queueing, and exiting by a door marked "entrance".
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There's zero excuse for poor customer service. More funding won't make people think "we'd better keep the passengers informed" it's just a very, very poor attempt to justify poor service. But it costs nothing at all to keep people informed
The level of knowledge of rail staff is diminishing at an alarming rate. It feels as if less training is given year on year but also less people are truly interested in the railway. For some time now it seems the people that do really well on the railway are those with a genuine interest in it.Those who treat it purely as a means of earning money tend to be of little use, and this is because of the poor level of training given.
Better not talk to many signallers then!
Many of them are in it for the money and have little interest in what some here see as "the railway".
And the one thing they don't have is "poor training"!
I admire your optimism that the training is that good.
Customer service is a totally foreign concept on Britain's railways. I speak as someone whose child was stranded at an unstaffed station yesterday evening as train after train was cancelled. There was a FIVE hour gap between trains on what should be an hourly service (at least trains that stopped anyway) and it occurred to no one at all that they needed to make alternative arrangements for passengers there. And they wonder why the public want tax payer funding withdrawn! Having spoken to the MP about last nights fiasco (the third such night this week, and it was only Wednesday!) they agreed. I suspect railway funding may become a hot topic unless they seriously up their game-but they won't.
If the said MP is from the Governing party, he needs to look to himself as to why his Government has let the railway system slide so much. The public wants a working railway, rather than a further round of cuts.
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It’s shocking but utterly unsurprising. I suspect the training given for these jobs is little more than learning the spelling of the station you’re at and being able to identify the difference between a train and a boat.
The level of knowledge of rail staff is diminishing at an alarming rate. It feels as if less training is given year on year but also less people are truly interested in the railway. For some time now it seems the people that do really well on the railway are those with a genuine interest in it. Those who treat it purely as a means of earning money tend to be of little use, and this is because of the poor level of training given.
Not necessarily the fault of the staff of course, although I feel that the default attitude of people is to ask if you’re unsure so I can only assume that one of the few things they are TAUGHT is to bias towards rejection if you’re unsure. For example :
Ticket valid = let them through
Ticket not valid = don’t let them through
Unsure about ticket = don’t let them through.
This mentally MUST be taught because it’s not how we think by default as humans.
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Why aren’t they trained in this? Clearly it’s not a new concept so why aren’t they trained?
Is it because by saving money not providing training you “coincidentally” restrict passengers further and generate more income when they’re forced to buy another ticket?
There are laws against that sort of behaviour, the railway needs to be thankful it’s entirely above the law in real world terms else it would be in an awful amount of trouble.
There's zero excuse for poor customer service. More funding won't make people think "we'd better keep the passengers informed" it's just a very, very poor attempt to justify poor service. But it costs nothing at all to keep people informed
I can't imagine gateline staff getting much training - especially as many seem to be agency, or on minimum wage. I've had many encounters with un-empathetic staff who I feel, shouldn't be in customer-facing roles. Decent manners certainly seems to be lacking in many walks of life
Going back to the OP's tale of woe, wouldn't it have been possible, once they had been 'over-carried' to Rochester, to have travelled directly back from there to St. Mary Cray, rather than to Bromley South?
I think this is an important point. Clearly if the passenger was accidentally overcarried, they had the right to be taken back to their ticketed destination. It's not clear to me they had any entitlement to go from St Mary Cray to Bromley South without the purchase of a further ticket.
If the said MP is from the Governing party, he needs to look to himself as to why his Government has let the railway system slide so much. The public wants a working railway, rather than a further round of cuts.
He's an opposition MP and painfully aware most of his constituents are on minimum wage jobs and can't afford train fares and want to pay less tax & their perception is that rail workers are on more money they can dream of and get tax payer subsidies. To keep his seat at the next election he's going to have to address this issue. And he's painfully aware of it. Locally, it's expected he could well loose his seat, certainly if another party says they'll cut rail spending. Not everyone is keen on trains. Here they are seen as only for the posh and well to do, as noone can afford the fares.
I repeat, informing the public costs nothing. We could give the railways an extra million pounds a second and they'd still treat their passengers with the same contemt. Informing passengers costs nothing at all. To say it does makes you look you are totally clueless about it. Pouring even more money into the railways would be an even bigger waste, until they can prove they use what they get responsibly.
Bromley South is the only gateline I’ve ever had any grief with as railway staff, travelling with a perfectly valid pass. Very disappointing to hear this wasn’t just a one off
When I was last there, I thought the gateline at Bromley South was between the overbridge and foyer. Therefore, how would the gateline staff know which train you had got off?
Going back to the OP's tale of woe, wouldn't it have been possible, once they had been 'over-carried' to Rochester, to have travelled directly back from there to St. Mary Cray, rather than to Bromley South?
I think this is an important point. Clearly if the passenger was accidentally overcarried, they had the right to be taken back to their ticketed destination. It's not clear to me they had any entitlement to go from St Mary Cray to Bromley South without the purchase of a further ticket.
When I was last there, I thought the gateline at Bromley South was between the overbridge and foyer. Therefore, how would the gateline staff know which train you had got off?
It’s shocking but utterly unsurprising. I suspect the training given for these jobs is little more than learning the spelling of the station you’re at and being able to identify the difference between a train and a boat.
The level of knowledge of rail staff is diminishing at an alarming rate. It feels as if less training is given year on year but also less people are truly interested in the railway. For some time now it seems the people that do really well on the railway are those with a genuine interest in it. Those who treat it purely as a means of earning money tend to be of little use, and this is because of the poor level of training given.
Not necessarily the fault of the staff of course, although I feel that the default attitude of people is to ask if you’re unsure so I can only assume that one of the few things they are TAUGHT is to bias towards rejection if you’re unsure. For example :
Ticket valid = let them through
Ticket not valid = don’t let them through
Unsure about ticket = don’t let them through.
This mentally MUST be taught because it’s not how we think by default as humans.
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Why aren’t they trained in this? Clearly it’s not a new concept so why aren’t they trained?
Is it because by saving money not providing training you “coincidentally” restrict passengers further and generate more income when they’re forced to buy another ticket?
There are laws against that sort of behaviour, the railway needs to be thankful it’s entirely above the law in real world terms else it would be in an awful amount of trouble.
I’m not sure there’s a conspiracy as such. Just that the railway seems to be taking on more and more staff who quite simply don’t give a stuff.
However this is hardly unique to the railway. Indeed such attitudes seem to be pretty common across the board at the moment, including in the private sector, and especially in the London area.
It anyone thinks the railway is bad, try getting my local council to fulfil their obligations!
Going back to the OP's tale of woe, wouldn't it have been possible, once they had been 'over-carried' to Rochester, to have travelled directly back from there to St. Mary Cray, rather than to Bromley South?
Hi, yes I could have done but it wasn’t for another hour and it was cold. The train back to Bromley was coming sooner so I asked my dad if he could pick me up there
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Update: the customer relations officer at Southeastern sent an email asking for a description of this particular staff member so he could pass this onto the
station manager for investigation. I have responded and feel somewhat reassured this won’t be happening again
He's an opposition MP and painfully aware most of his constituents are on minimum wage jobs and can't afford train fares and want to pay less tax & their perception is that rail workers are on more money they can dream of and get tax payer subsidies. To keep his seat at the next election he's going to have to address this issue. And he's painfully aware of it. Locally, it's expected he could well loose his seat, certainly if another party says they'll cut rail spending. Not everyone is keen on trains. Here they are seen as only for the posh and well to do, as noone can afford the fares.
I repeat, informing the public costs nothing. We could give the railways an extra million pounds a second and they'd still treat their passengers with the same contemt. Informing passengers costs nothing at all. To say it does makes you look you are totally clueless about it. Pouring even more money into the railways would be an even bigger waste, until they can prove they use what they get responsibly.
There's zero excuse for poor customer service. More funding won't make people think "we'd better keep the passengers informed" it's just a very, very poor attempt to justify poor service. But it costs nothing at all to keep people informed
Well you're definitely not going to get any form of "customer service" at an unstaffed station (such as the one your child was stranded at), are you? There would be a few more of those if the government had its way. The fact that there was a five hour hiatus in the service can definitely be laid at the government's feet too.
The reliability is so bad no one can use the train for commuting. It's simply not a viable option.
People here would rather save money and not have trains.
Well you're definitely not going to get any form of "customer service" at an unstaffed station (such as the one your child was stranded at), are you? There would be a few more of those if the government had its way. The fact that there was a five hour hiatus in the service can definitely be laid at the government's feet too.
The reliability is so bad no one can use the train for commuting. It's simply not a viable option.
People here would rather save money and not have trains.
All on the back of reliability which is driven down by cuts.
I'm curious as to where you are, but here (in West Yorkshire) people seem to want to use trains because they are often very busy when they are running.
It’s incredibly sad but true. No untrained staff to tell passengers the wrong thing. No barriers rejecting valid tickets. Of course, fare evasion is already rife so it’s unimaginable how much that would go up if more stations were unstaffed.
All on the back of reliability which is driven down by cuts.
I'm curious as to where you are, but here (in West Yorkshire) people seem to want to use trains because they are often very busy when they are running.
Where I am on the other hand, there isn't the same level of government stingyness so the service tends to actually turn up. Trouble is that more people turn up than can be physically squeezed into the unit (even those Japanese "train pushers" would admit defeat) so loads of people get left behind. So passenger numbers are suppressed here too.
When I did gateline - there was always the odd colleague who'd try and enforce the vague (on our network) break of journey rules against someone popping out for a smoke because there was a 15 minute wait for the connecting train.
All it does it create conflict and make everybody miserable. Why bother? Nobody is trying to swindle you.
I hope that the OP gets a satisfactory response with this - a shockingly poor standard of customer service and training on display. Thankfully never had the pleasure of using Bromley South gateline myself.
Where I am on the other hand, there isn't the same level of government stingyness so the service tends to actually turn up. Trouble is that more people turn up than can be physically squeezed into the unit (even those Japanese "train pushers" would admit defeat) so loads of people get left behind. So passenger numbers are suppressed here too.
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