Station barrier staff lacking empathy

[ml2000]

This is just a rant really because my commute was so dreadful today. I usually take a direct train from Welwyn Garden City to st Mary cray for my evening commute. Everyday I buy an anytime return ticket for the journey.

Today the train was already delayed and all passengers before the last stop (Sevenoaks) were told to disembark at Bromley South, only 2 stops away from St mary cray. The platform staff at Bromley advised me to get on a particular train to get home, but this ended up going direct to Rochester! I was panicking as I’ve never been so far into Kent and would have to wait for another train straight back to Bromley.

At this point I rung my dad up and begged him to come pick me up from Bromley and I just wanted to get home. Finally I got back to Bromley but the man at the barriers refused to let me through as my anytime return ticket was for St Mary Cray, even though that’s two stops after Bromley and more expensive!! I was in tears trying to explain my situation at this point, but he had the audacity to tell me that my ticket is not allowed and to stop being emotional. I can’t believe people so lacking in empathetic and professionalism are allowed to work in customer service. I can’t even imagine how he would have treated a passenger with disabilities or mental health issues.

Luckily I actually had another passenger back up my version of events, of being directed onto the incorrect train. Eventually he let me through but not before taking my ticket and not returning it, so now I can’t even claim delay repay. Needless to say I’ve made a complaint to Southeastern but doubt this will even be raised with the unprofessional staff member. Is it really not allowed to get off two stops earlier on the same train line?

 

[gray1404]

Your ticket is absolutely valid for you to finish your journey short if it is Anytime ticket. You are also entitled to break your journey and commence it later on.

The gate line staff member had no right whatsoever to refuse to let you out nor did he have any right to conversate your ticket.

You do need to make a complaint to the train company and ensure that you include detailed description of what the member of staff looked like and anything about them that will help them identify them. If they do not respond offering reassurance that this will not happen again I would escalate the complaint.

Also you do remain entitled to any delay repay even if he has taken the ticket from you. If you look at this way the railway already has your ticket so they cannot deny you your compensation.

This is absolutely shocking behaviour by somebody who does not even understand the basics of tickets or customer service. Let us know how you get on.

 

[yorkie]

I am sorry, though sadly not surprised, to hear of this awful experience.

....but the man at the barriers refused to let me through as my anytime return ticket was for St Mary Cray, even though that’s two stops after Bromley and more expensive!! ...

Notwithstanding any disruption which may affect things, the ticket is entirely valid at Bromley South, regardless.

The staff should have let you through without question.

I was in tears trying to explain my situation at this point, but he had the audacity to tell me that my ticket is not allowed and to stop being emotional. I can’t believe people so lacking in empathetic and professionalism are allowed to work in customer service. I can’t even imagine how he would have treated a passenger with disabilities or mental health issues.

Sadly, there are insufficient safeguards in place to ensure a consistently high standard of behaviour by train company employees and their agents*

I can believe that people who are lacking in this area are employed in customer facing roles in the rail industry as I've seen such behaviour numerous times myself. It no longer surprises me to hear of it.

Such staff wouldn't hack it any organisation I've worked for, but then I don't work for a TOC (or any of the awful agencies they contract work out to), never have, and almost certainly never will.

Luckily I actually had another passenger back up my version of events, of being directed onto the incorrect train. Eventually he let me through but not before taking my ticket and not returning it, so now I can’t even claim delay repay. Needless to say I’ve made a complaint to Southeastern but doubt this will even be raised with the horrible staff member.

Next time, I suggest you take a photo of the ticket before passing through any barriers.

Where did you buy the ticket? If there is a record of the transaction, that may suffice.

If you bought it from us, we will help you directly as there is no way we could accept one of our customers being treated this way.

(* I get grief for saying this sort of thing, but it's absolutely true; I wont be silenced, and attempts to silence me have failed and will continue to fail)

 

[WesternLancer]

Eventually he let me through but not before taking my ticket and not returning it, so now I can’t even claim delay repay. Needless to say I’ve made a complaint to Southeastern but doubt this will even be raised with the unprofessional staff member. Is it really not allowed to get off two stops earlier on the same train line?

I think there is a process in Delay Repay Claims to submit a claim even if you do not have the ticket but proof of purchase (eg maybe your bank statement or other receipt) - you should try this - if you need more help with it - eg if claim is rejected - people here will help advise you on how to progress the claim.

 

[ml2000]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I’ve submitted a delay repay via the Thameslink website with a picture of my return ticket from the morning. I’m hoping it works as it’s SMC to Welwyn but it says anytime day return on it. I’ve been thinking about it and I suppose the staff could have thought Welwyn was a station somewhere in Kent and I had travelled beyond my stop. But I’d be surprised if they weren’t familiar with the routes stopping at Bromley

 

[Seehof]

I am shocked by all this. Staff should know where Welwyn is and be more knowledgeable and sympathetic. Good Luck to you. Will the day ever come when the railway stops messing people about?!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I’ve submitted a delay repay via the Thameslink website with a picture of my return ticket from the morning. I’m hoping it works as it’s SMC to Welwyn but it says anytime day return on it. I’ve been thinking about it and I suppose the staff could have thought Welwyn was a station somewhere in Kent and I had travelled beyond my stop. But I’d be surprised if they weren’t familiar with the routes stopping at Bromley

Their D-R page is a real nuisnce if it gets rejected (not easy to appeal with anywhere to explain what happened, if you need to) - but do persist with it and head back here for advice if you need it

 

[30907]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I’ve submitted a delay repay via the Thameslink website with a picture of my return ticket from the morning. I’m hoping it works as it’s SMC to Welwyn but it says anytime day return on it. I’ve been thinking about it and I suppose the staff could have thought Welwyn was a station somewhere in Kent and I had travelled beyond my stop.

That was my first thought, but I can't think where they would confuse it with. And it would have had a "cross-London" marker.
I am also surprised the ticket didn't work the barriers.

But I’d be surprised if they weren’t familiar with the routes stopping at Bromley

TBF those trains haven't been running for long, compared with all the other services there. Still no excuse.

 

[Haywain]

That was my first thought, but I can't think where they would confuse it with.

Welling?

 

[Starmill]

I'd strongly advise you to complain to customer service at Southeastern, and advise them that you've also submitted a delay repay claim through the Thameslink form in that complaint.

 

[ml2000]

The barriers in the morning at Welwyn don’t open either if you have a 16-25 railcard applied, i always have to show the staff my ticket and railcard and ask for them to manually open the gate

 

[BrianW]

The barriers in the morning at Welwyn don’t open either if you have a 16-25 railcard applied, i always have to show the staff my ticket and railcard and ask for them to manually open the gate

This is just a rant really because my commute was so dreadful today. I usually take a direct train from Welwyn Garden City to st Mary cray for my evening commute. Everyday I buy an anytime return ticket for the journey.

Today the train was already delayed and all passengers before the last stop (Sevenoaks) were told to disembark at Bromley South, only 2 stops away from St mary cray. The platform staff at Bromley advised me to get on a particular train to get home, but this ended up going direct to Rochester! I was panicking as I’ve never been so far into Kent and would have to wait for another train straight back to Bromley.

At this point I rung my dad up and begged him to come pick me up from Bromley and I just wanted to get home. Finally I got back to Bromley but the man at the barriers refused to let me through as my anytime return ticket was for St Mary Cray, even though that’s two stops after Bromley and more expensive!! I was in tears trying to explain my situation at this point, but he had the audacity to tell me that my ticket is not allowed and to stop being emotional. I can’t believe people so lacking in empathetic and professionalism are allowed to work in customer service. I can’t even imagine how he would have treated a passenger with disabilities or mental health issues.

Luckily I actually had another passenger back up my version of events, of being directed onto the incorrect train. Eventually he let me through but not before taking my ticket and not returning it, so now I can’t even claim delay repay. Needless to say I’ve made a complaint to Southeastern but doubt this will even be raised with the unprofessional staff member. Is it really not allowed to get off two stops earlier on the same train line?

Dear ml2000, Welcome to the Forum, which I hope and believe you will find helpful and supportive- I wish you well with your progress through 'the process' or processes which often seem to be set up as a kind of opposite of 'customer service'. So many, rather like with so-called 'benefit services' seem to be set up on th4 basis that people are scammers, devious, 'them', trying to defraud- indeed the title 'revenue protection; seems to suggest that. Yes there are scammers, triers-on etc. You were treated appallingly and should be apologised to. You were a person in need of help, entitled to get emotional- you are a person, and indeed a customer. Ticketing systems don't help. Multiple posts on this Forum testify to 'issues'. Please feel listened to here and enjoy Christmas.

 

[Wallsendmag]

The barriers in the morning at Welwyn don’t open either if you have a 16-25 railcard applied, i always have to show the staff my ticket and railcard and ask for them to manually open the gate

That's not a surprise given the number of peopple we see on here being prosecuted for not having a railcard at all

 

[yorksrob]

It's shocking that there are staff employed at ticket barriers who don't know that a break of journey is allowed on an anytime journey.

I would be complaining vociferously in this situation.

 

[Krokodil]

That's not a surprise given the number of peopple we see on here being prosecuted for not having a railcard at all

More likely (given that it's only in the morning) it's to check for those who are getting around the minimum fare

 

[AlterEgo]

Finally I got back to Bromley but the man at the barriers refused to let me through as my anytime return ticket was for St Mary Cray, even though that’s two stops after Bromley and more expensive!! I was in tears trying to explain my situation at this point, but he had the audacity to tell me that my ticket is not allowed and to stop being emotional.

Push past and tell them to do one next time. They aren't allowed to detain you inside the station and they are not going to touch you.

It isn't empathy they lacked by the way, it's a basic knowledge of how to do their job properly.

 

[Kite159]

It's shocking that there are staff employed at ticket barriers who don't know that a break of journey is allowed on an anytime journey.

I would be complaining vociferously in this situation.

There are some staff employed on ticket barriers where a break of journey is a completely foreign concept and will try to claim a ticket isn't valid there.

 

[robbeech]

Will the day ever come when the railway stops messing people about?!

I doubt it. It’s a game to some of them.

It's shocking that there are staff employed at ticket barriers who don't know that a break of journey is allowed on an anytime journey.

I would be complaining vociferously in this situation.

It’s shocking but utterly unsurprising. I suspect the training given for these jobs is little more than learning the spelling of the station you’re at and being able to identify the difference between a train and a boat.


The level of knowledge of rail staff is diminishing at an alarming rate. It feels as if less training is given year on year but also less people are truly interested in the railway. For some time now it seems the people that do really well on the railway are those with a genuine interest in it. Those who treat it purely as a means of earning money tend to be of little use, and this is because of the poor level of training given.

Not necessarily the fault of the staff of course, although I feel that the default attitude of people is to ask if you’re unsure so I can only assume that one of the few things they are TAUGHT is to bias towards rejection if you’re unsure. For example :

Ticket valid = let them through
Ticket not valid = don’t let them through
Unsure about ticket = don’t let them through.

This mentally MUST be taught because it’s not how we think by default as humans.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2023 ==

There are some staff employed on ticket barriers where a break of journey is a completely foreign concept and will try to claim a ticket isn't valid there.

Why aren’t they trained in this? Clearly it’s not a new concept so why aren’t they trained?
Is it because by saving money not providing training you “coincidentally” restrict passengers further and generate more income when they’re forced to buy another ticket?
There are laws against that sort of behaviour, the railway needs to be thankful it’s entirely above the law in real world terms else it would be in an awful amount of trouble.

 

[Watershed]

Push past and tell them to do one next time. They aren't allowed to detain you inside the station and they are not going to touch you.

It isn't empathy they lacked by the way, it's a basic knowledge of how to do their job properly.

Theoretically they are entitled to detain passengers who commit the 'three fails' (fail to provide a valid ticket, pay the fare, or provide name and address) under section 5(2) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 until the police arrive.

But of course the OP had a valid ticket so this wouldn't have applied, and in any event I'm not aware of any TOC whose policies permit their barrier staff to detain passengers. RPIs or similar staff may be a different story though.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It’s shocking but utterly unsurprising. I suspect the training given for these jobs is little more than learning the spelling of the station you’re at and being able to identify the difference between a train and a boat.

I admire your optimism that the training is that good.
Customer service is a totally foreign concept on Britain's railways. I speak as someone whose child was stranded at an unstaffed station yesterday evening as train after train was cancelled. There was a FIVE hour gap between trains on what should be an hourly service (at least trains that stopped anyway) and it occurred to no one at all that they needed to make alternative arrangements for passengers there. And they wonder why the public want tax payer funding withdrawn! Having spoken to the MP about last nights fiasco (the third such night this week, and it was only Wednesday!) they agreed. I suspect railway funding may become a hot topic unless they seriously up their game-but they won't.

 

[Wolfie]

Dear ml2000, Welcome to the Forum, which I hope and believe you will find helpful and supportive- I wish you well with your progress through 'the process' or processes which often seem to be set up as a kind of opposite of 'customer service'. So many, rather like with so-called 'benefit services' seem to be set up on th4 basis that people are scammers, devious, 'them', trying to defraud- indeed the title 'revenue protection; seems to suggest that. Yes there are scammers, triers-on etc. You were treated appallingly and should be apologised to. You were a person in need of help, entitled to get emotional- you are a person, and indeed a customer. Ticketing systems don't help. Multiple posts on this Forum testify to 'issues'. Please feel listened to here and enjoy Christmas.

This is why increasingly my default reaction when it comes to problems with TOCs is sue, sue and sue again. Perhaps if their legal bills get to stratospheric levels the clowns (all they are missing is a red nose and size 13 shoes) responsible for this situation will get off their bums and actually change things.

 

[Deafdoggie]

This is why increasingly my default reaction when it comes to problems with TOCs is sue, sue and sue again. Perhaps if their legal bills get to stratospheric levels the clowns (all they are missing is a red nose and size 13 shoes) responsible for this situation will get off the bums and actually change things.

I admire your optimism. But the tax payer will just fund this, as they do everything else. So the railways have zero interest in customer service

 

[whale]

Bromley South is the only gateline I’ve ever had any grief with as railway staff, travelling with a perfectly valid pass. Very disappointing to hear this wasn’t just a one off

 

[island]

Push past and tell them to do one next time. They aren't allowed to detain you inside the station and they are not going to touch you.

Pushing through ticket barriers is an offence under railway byelaw 9.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Pushing through ticket barriers is an offence under railway byelaw 9.

And what are they going to do? Ticket barrier staff only go for easy pickings, you push through clearly not going to interact with them, they will leave you alone. It's well documented in this forum

 

[John R]

I think advising people who believe they have a valid ticket to push through the gateline is, in general, poor advice. We see many cases here where people believe they have a valid ticket but in fact don't, and recommending that they commit an offence to address the situation won't help them if they are indeed stopped. It may well be that at the station under discussion nobody would stop them, but that won't always be the case.

 

[cool110]

If you're going to cross into criminality, at least set the fire alarm off so they rack up the delay minutes.

 

[Krokodil]

I admire your optimism that the training is that good.
Customer service is a totally foreign concept on Britain's railways. I speak as someone whose child was stranded at an unstaffed station yesterday evening as train after train was cancelled. There was a FIVE hour gap between trains on what should be an hourly service (at least trains that stopped anyway) and it occurred to no one at all that they needed to make alternative arrangements for passengers there. And they wonder why the public want tax payer funding withdrawn! Having spoken to the MP about last nights fiasco (the third such night this week, and it was only Wednesday!) they agreed. I suspect railway funding may become a hot topic unless they seriously up their game-but they won't.

You realise that government penny-pinching and interference is the root cause of the unreliability? Cutting funding will simply make matters worse.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Going back to the OP's tale of woe, wouldn't it have been possible, once they had been 'over-carried' to Rochester, to have travelled directly back from there to St. Mary Cray, rather than to Bromley South?

 

[Deafdoggie]

You realise that government penny-pinching and interference is the root cause of the unreliability? Cutting funding will simply make matters worse.

There's zero excuse for poor customer service. More funding won't make people think "we'd better keep the passengers informed" it's just a very, very poor attempt to justify poor service. But it costs nothing at all to keep people informed