Starting short unable to buy correct ticket and refused excess

[RailyGood]

I had to drop off someone at Gatwick Airport this morning, and checking brfares.com beforehand it was cheaper to buy an offpeak day return than use oyster prepay - its the same price from both Streatham and Norbury

Because we needed to be at the airport for 7:20am, and it wasnt possible to do that starting at Streatham station, we took the bus to Norbury station to catch the 06:46 to East Croydon

At Norbury, the ticket office was closed, and the ticket machines didnt allow specifying to buy tickets from another station, so I bought the ticket from Norbury to Gatwick Airport

After arriving at Gatwick Airport, I tried to ask the at the ticket office if I could excess this ticket to go back to Streatham, but they refused and said I would have to pay 2.20, which doesnt match the Single fare . The person behind the counter referred me to "the supervisor" who told me not to worry and to travel to Streatham, but it was a "good will" gesture.http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=NRB&dest=STE&tkt=SDS

Given the tickets were the same cost and it was no fault of my own that I could not buy the correct ticket, I have a few questions

Were they correct in refusing the excess fare? I've read somewhere the origin cannot be changed
Should I have paid the extra and then tried to claim it back?
Was it valid to travel past Norbury given i'd been authorised to do so by "the supervisor" ?
Would I have been better off not buying a ticket at all and then buying the correct ticket from Streatham to Gatwick Airport upon arriving at Gatwick Airport? I didnt have the opportunity to buy a valid ticket.

If I did this again I guess i'd try and buy the ticket at Streatham before getting the bus to norbury, but it seems a ridiculous situation that i'm unable to buy the correct ticket.

There was no intention to not pay a fare at all, I just didnt want to pay extra which I should not have had to.

 

[Hadders]

Some people claim the origin cannot be 'over distanced' however I believe that in a recently circulated internal instructions on excesses one of the examples used is when the origin is excessed.

Excesses are a minefield and you often have to shop around to get them.

 

[robbeech]

It’s a tricky situation.
Unfortunately had you had your ticket checked after over travelling to Streatham you’d have likely been prosecuted even if you explained the situation and even if you had permission.
There’s conflicting advice given about whether to purchase a ticket for part of your fare and then pay the difference or whether as you wanted a ticket not available to you at the machine you should have purchased at your destination. The problem then comes if you are checked at your destination where you will likely be prosecuted for fare evasion.
I’m not sure what I would do in that situation, I don’t know the area well enough to know the general attitude of the staff. I think I’d be inclined to purchase the ticket and get the excess or at the very least a written endorsement rather than a “it’ll be ok mate” from a member of staff as sadly I don’t have s great deal of trust in the system which is down to a small number of staff acting inappropriately.

 

[paddington]

The ticket office at Norbury is meant to open at 0630 on Saturday, I have noticed that ticket offices in this area are often closed even when they are meant to be open. I guess the workaround is to buy tickets online the night before.

 

[robbeech]

The ticket office at Norbury is meant to open at 0630 on Saturday, I have noticed that ticket offices in this area are often closed even when they are meant to be open. I guess the workaround is to buy tickets online the night before.

You can help the situation by buying tickets online the night before if you wish to do this but you are in no way obliged to do so.
Additionally, it’s worth noting when a ticket office is closed during normal opening hours. If you had any issues with a ticket (or lack of) and the ticket office SHOULD have been open then there will be members of staff that will claim it WAS open.

 

[rs101]

You can help the situation by buying tickets online the night before if you wish to do this but you are in no way obliged to do so.
Additionally, it’s worth noting when a ticket office is closed during normal opening hours. If you had any issues with a ticket (or lack of) and the ticket office SHOULD have been open then there will be members of staff that will claim it WAS open.

I've had problems with Manningtree ticket office being closed when it's supposed to be open - went twice to renew a Railcard and they were shut - so simply took a photo of the closed sign and tweeted to GA asking them what was going on. To be fair to them, they replied within about 15 minutes confirming there were staff shortages.

Had I been travelling without a ticket because of their staffing issues, I'd have had great evidence that it was really shut.

 

[robbeech]

Had I been travelling without a ticket because of their staffing issues, I'd have had great evidence that it was really shut.

You would have had evidence. Though I wouldn’t put it past a very small minority of staff to claim that the image was from another time etc.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Some people claim the origin cannot be 'over distanced' however I believe that in a recently circulated internal instructions on excesses one of the examples used is when the origin is excessed.

Although NRCoT says that in a situation where your chosen ticket is not available you should buy what you can, and swap for the appropriate ticket at the firat staffed ticket office you reach.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can help the situation by buying tickets online the night before if you wish to do this but you are in no way obliged to do so.
Additionally, it’s worth noting when a ticket office is closed during normal opening hours. If you had any issues with a ticket (or lack of) and the ticket office SHOULD have been open then there will be members of staff that will claim it WAS open.

Like with many such things a photograph on a camera phone (with date stamp, or holding your watch on the photo) is a good piece of evidence of a closed ticket office or broken TVM. It's fairly unlikely a TOC will claim you to have faked it.

But the absolute easiest solution to this (or any other situation where you want an "awkward" but valid ticket) is to buy the ticket on your phone and pick it up from the TVM there and then. As long as you avoid Trainline based sites the ticket goes straight into the back end with no appreciable delay.

 

[Starmill]

Why not write to Southern? Set out the facts. You arrived at Norbury station and the ticket office was closed, but there was a working ticket machine. You needed a Streatham to Gatwick Airport ticket which was unavailable from the machine. Ask them what you are expected to do in this situation.
You could suggest:
-Buying any ticket from the machine (such as a single to the next stop) and getting it part exchanged on the train, at an interchange if time permits, or at your destination
-Buying the a ticket to cover your immediate journey (such as a single to Gatwick Airport), then buying the correct ticket as soon as possible and getting a refund on the original ticket
-Boarding the train without a ticket, and buying the correct ticket on the train, at an interchange if time permits, or at your destination

I would be very interested to hear their answer. Ask them to provide you with an official written response which you can rely on.

 

[LowLevel]

Some people claim the origin cannot be 'over distanced' however I believe that in a recently circulated internal instructions on excesses one of the examples used is when the origin is excessed.

Excesses are a minefield and you often have to shop around to get them.

We used to crack on and do it on Avantix but Envoy is programmed to prevent it. Same as excessing away railcard discounts etc.