Stansted-Thameslink Idea?

[rethink]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to London. I'm wondering if the idea of connecting Thameslink into the GOBLIN line has been considered and if so, connecting from there to Stansted. The engineering for track connections and platform extensions looks pretty straight forward. Would the issue be the passenger capacity on the GOBLIN lines?

 

[PeterC]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to London. I'm wondering if the idea of connecting Thameslink into the GOBLIN line has been considered and if so, connecting from there to Stansted. The engineering for track connections and platform extensions looks pretty straight forward. Would the issue be the passenger capacity on the GOBLIN lines?

IIRC all the existing curves face the wrong way and there would be capacity problems.

 

[rethink]

Yeah. I saw the Kentish town connection needs to be restored. The connection to the West Anglia line seems straight forward.

But where are the capacity constraints?

 

[Magdalia]

The Lea Valley between Tottenham and Cheshunt is already full in the peaks, with Hertford East trains having to go via Southbury.

And there are capacity issues at Stansted Airport: it only has 3 platforms and the tunnel under the runway is single track.

 

[rethink]

It would likely have to replace existing service into Liverpool Street. But what about GOBLIN capacity?

 

[PeterC]

Yeah. I saw the Kentish town connection needs to be restored. The connection to the West Anglia line seems straight forward.

But where are the capacity constraints?

Only the west to south curve is in place for the West Anglia line. Putting in two at grade connections would create problems on all the lines concerned including the Goblin

Remember that the GOBLIN line is also the primary route for freight from North Thamesside

 

[zwk500]

There's also the question of where it goes at the south end. Adding another route to the mix is going to send punctuality even further down. Sending more trains through London Bridge or Tulse Hill isn't going to help matters with South Eastern or Southern.

 

[Alfie1014]

Stansted services were in the original NSE commercial timetable specification for Thameslink 2000 developed in the early 1990s, I know because I designed the timetable. Somewhere unless it’s got lost in a house move I’ve got draft copies of the timetables. South of the river I think Horsham was the intended destination? How it was to access the WAML I can’t quite remember though chords on and off the GOBLin again ring bells and of course that route at the time was somewhat a backwater with just 2 tph, not yet electrified and the Stansted Express was also still only half hourly. I think there was a vague desire at the time to link all London airports through Farringdon by both Crossrail and Thameslink.

 

[NSE]

A nice idea, but wouldn’t work. As others have said, you’d need to construct curves at both end. If it was just reopening rusty track or something then fair, but there’s so much to do for minimum gain. The WAML lines seem earmarked for Crossrail 2, so that’ll be their future project.

To get some use for the Goblin to MML connection I’d love to see the line taken through West Hampstead and up to join the Dudding Hill line and then down to Kew East Junction and run it down to Hounslow (or go left at Kew East to run to Clapham Junction connection the circle nature again!). Though I do appreciate you’d need a flyover/dive under to go under/over the MML and bay platforms at Hounslow or Clapham. Still, nice idea.

 

[swt_passenger]

Stansted services were in the original NSE commercial timetable specification for Thameslink 2000 developed in the early 1990s, I know because I designed the timetable. Somewhere unless it’s got lost in a house move I’ve got draft copies of the timetables. South of the river I think Horsham was the intended destination? How it was to access the WAML I can’t quite remember though chords on and off the GOBLin again ring bells and of course that route at the time was somewhat a backwater with just 2 tph, not yet electrified and the Stansted Express was also still only half hourly. I think there was a vague desire at the time to link all London airports through Farringdon by both Crossrail and Thameslink.

I think in a previous iteration of this sort of question a South to East link between the ECML and the Goblin north of Finsbury Park was mentioned. (Or it might have been in a discussion about Copenhagen tunnels and Maplin Sands?)

I think most replies thought such a link would be impossible nowadays, there’d be too much demolition required.

 

[stuu]

Even ignoring the engineering issues, it would be painfully slow. Liverpool St isn't exactly poorly connected, and the change at Tottenham Hale makes the west end easier to access than via Thameslink

 

[philjo]

Stansted would be better linked to Crossrail2 if it happens.

 

[Bald Rick]

As @Alfie1014 says this was considered about 35 years ago, in the context of Stansted becoming another Heathrow. But fairly quickly dismissed.

there is absolutely no point in doing to now.

Firstly, it needs much new infrastructure to make it work (at Kentish Town or Holloway, and south of Tottenham) all of which requires significant demolition.

secondly - the journey time to St Pancras would be longer than to Liverpool St. So what would be the point?

thirdly, the Thameslink core and WAML are both at, or close to capacity, and therefore putting extra services on them means removing existing (and busy) services

fourthly, whilst the Gospel Oak - Barking line isn’t at capacity, it’s not far off in some hours, and any additional trains along it would effectively have to operate at the speed / times of the stopping passenger service

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2022 ==

Stansted would be better linked to Crossrail2 if it happens.

Crossrail 2 would never go to Stansted - absolutely pointless. It would take about half an hour longer than the Stansted express.