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Stansted or National

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387star

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The 379s say 'National Express' but I thought the 317/7 and 317/8 said 'Stansted Express' so are they dropping the emphasis on the brand?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also won't the East Anglia 153s and 170s be due for C6 work in the next franchise?
 
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MCR247

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Maybe they should just change it to 'Stanstead' and be done with :lol:
 

fgwrich

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The 379s say 'National Express' but I thought the 317/7 and 317/8 said 'Stansted Express' so are they dropping the emphasis on the brand?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also won't the East Anglia 153s and 170s be due for C6 work in the next franchise?

Overhaull Anglias 153s - Never! :o:o:o Hope whoever attempts to clean the dam things has a good enough scraper - im thinking...Titanium would be good enough!:lol:

Mind you, in Anglias Case, the dirt is probably holding the Dogbox's together!
 

O L Leigh

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Maybe they should just change it to 'Stanstead' and be done with :lol:

Because Stanstead is a completely different place to Stansted, even though both are on the WA lines out of Liv St. It's not simply a case of getting the spelling right but being clear about where you're going.

O L Leigh
 

rail-britain

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Oh, and for the umpteenth time, it's "Stansted".
The service was originally launched separately as "Stansted Express"
The service is still branded separately as "Stansted Express" and is still promoted as such within the NXEA franchise :
https://www.stanstedexpress.com/content.asp?SID={05FF6604-BED5-48F7-AD8D-DE6A7937999A}&pageid=24
Although I do think National Express should wake up and realise the SRA is long since gone!
 

jopsuk

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That's a bit of an odd part of O L Leigh's post to pick out... your post isn't really anything to do with the quibbles about spelling. Incidentally, there's a nearby village called "Stanstead Abbots"- like many places, the standardised spelling of "Stansted" will be a recent thing (witness a river not far from there, the Lee/Lea, which retains two spellings).

There's also a point to be made that the Express hasn't always been known as such. Yes, it was launched as such, and is now branded as such, but it has had another name.
 

klewer

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There's also a point to be made that the Express hasn't always been known as such. Yes, it was launched as such, and is now branded as such, but it has had another name.

Wasn't it "Stansted Skytrain" in the days of NSE and the 322's? Probably a more suitable name than "Express" - not a word I'd associate with the 45 minute crawl along the WA line!
 

Fred26

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Wasn't it "Stansted Skytrain" in the days of NSE and the 322's? Probably a more suitable name than "Express" - not a word I'd associate with the 45 minute crawl along the WA line!

I hate that line. I had to traverse it every day when my sister was in hospital last year. It's very slow. I'd like it four-tracked with a minimum of 100mph throughout the main stretches.

I'd also like to see the DLR extended from Stratford to Tottenham Hale, as a side note.
 
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jopsuk

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The only "painfully slow" bit is the Liverpool Street-Tottenham section- much of which is four track. Is there anything that could be done to allow higher speeds along there?

for useful four-tracking, you'd have to start at Hackney Downs and connect the Seven Sisters branch to the slow lines via a flying junction (there isn't the room for this). Tunneling through to Clapton would be expensive, and there isn't room to widen the cutting from there to the river. At the river, ideally you'd want a flying junction to the Chingford line. Four track across the marshes would be controversial, and you've got another slow line coming in.

The whole station at Tottenham Hale would have to be rebuilt. There's then space (though stations might be tricky) for an exta pair of tracks most of the way to Chesunt- Waltham Cross would be tricky. Eliminating the remaining crossings would also be difficult. Hwo you'd build a high speed junction and a four track (doesn't have to be four platform) 12 car station at Chesunt, eliminating the level crossing, I've got no idea.

After that, much of the line is through farmland, but at the stations that are currently two-track you may have problems, especially where these are hemmed in by river and buildings and have a level crossing. Bishops Stortford is a slow, twisty and narrow obstacle, Mountfichet is narrow, then you ideally want grade seperated between the Stansted branch and the Cambridge line. A second tunnel bore under the runway would be handy, as would a an additional platform or two at the airport, especially if there's extra Ely (or even Norwich) services.

How many billion do you have spare?

As for DLR from Stratford (International) to Tottenham- how? Double deck on top of the WA branch?
 

island

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Once NXEA loses the franchise next year I imagine they'll end up with some further new branding.
 

387star

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Must have been confusing for passengers to have two 'express' brands
 

Fred26

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The only "painfully slow" bit is the Liverpool Street-Tottenham section- much of which is four track. Is there anything that could be done to allow higher speeds along there?

for useful four-tracking, you'd have to start at Hackney Downs and connect the Seven Sisters branch to the slow lines via a flying junction (there isn't the room for this). Tunneling through to Clapton would be expensive, and there isn't room to widen the cutting from there to the river. At the river, ideally you'd want a flying junction to the Chingford line. Four track across the marshes would be controversial, and you've got another slow line coming in.

The whole station at Tottenham Hale would have to be rebuilt. There's then space (though stations might be tricky) for an exta pair of tracks most of the way to Chesunt- Waltham Cross would be tricky. Eliminating the remaining crossings would also be difficult. Hwo you'd build a high speed junction and a four track (doesn't have to be four platform) 12 car station at Chesunt, eliminating the level crossing, I've got no idea.

After that, much of the line is through farmland, but at the stations that are currently two-track you may have problems, especially where these are hemmed in by river and buildings and have a level crossing. Bishops Stortford is a slow, twisty and narrow obstacle, Mountfichet is narrow, then you ideally want grade seperated between the Stansted branch and the Cambridge line. A second tunnel bore under the runway would be handy, as would a an additional platform or two at the airport, especially if there's extra Ely (or even Norwich) services.

How many billion do you have spare?

Yeah... it's very difficult, isn't it? ;)

As for DLR from Stratford (International) to Tottenham- how? Double deck on top of the WA branch?

That's what I've thought, yes, with a station at Lea Bridge.
 

NSE

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In answer to your original post, I saw a few 379's today, and the middle two coaches have Stansted Express written on them, and the two outer coaches have National Express on them.
 

387star

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I wonder if NX will bother to remove Stansted branding from the class 317s once these are used on other services
 

O L Leigh

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Incidentally, there's a nearby village called "Stanstead Abbots"- like many places, the standardised spelling of "Stansted" will be a recent thing.

Not correct.

Stansted Airport is built on the site of the wartime RAF Stansted Mountfitchet, the name being taken from the nearby village. However, in spite of it's official name, it was known in spoken and written forms simply as RAF Stansted. But this is not a standardised spelling. The spelling is taken directly from the name of the village.

Stanstead Abbotts is a different place altogether. It's located between Roydon and Ware and is served by St Margarets station on the Hertford East branch.

The only "painfully slow" bit is the Liverpool Street-Tottenham section- much of which is four track. Is there anything that could be done to allow higher speeds along there?

Liv St to Tott Hale is only booked to take 12 minutes. Hardly much scope there for time savings, especially when you consider the infrastructure.

The only bit that's 4 track is between Bethnal Green and Hackney Downs and there isn't much you can do about it as it's up on a brick viaduct. However, this isn't where the delays are as the highest linespeed along there is just 40mph due to the curvature and, more importantly, the signal spacing. You really can't make up time on the fast lines over trains on the slow along that section.

for useful four-tracking, you'd have to start at Hackney Downs and connect the Seven Sisters branch to the slow lines via a flying junction (there isn't the room for this). Tunneling through to Clapton would be expensive, and there isn't room to widen the cutting from there to the river. At the river, ideally you'd want a flying junction to the Chingford line. Four track across the marshes would be controversial, and you've got another slow line coming in.

Again, not a chance. Until you get down off the cord between Clapton and Coppermill Junctions there isn't enough room to consider doing anything more. Timetabling means that there are few conflicting moves (unless there is disruption) and everything meshes together nicely. As mentioned above, at just 12 minutes trains to get from Liv St to Tott Hale there really isn't any justification for fannying around with the lines.

The whole station at Tottenham Hale would have to be rebuilt. There's then space (though stations might be tricky) for an exta pair of tracks most of the way to Chesunt- Waltham Cross would be tricky. Eliminating the remaining crossings would also be difficult. Hwo you'd build a high speed junction and a four track (doesn't have to be four platform) 12 car station at Chesunt, eliminating the level crossing, I've got no idea.

The Lea Valley was originally built to serve the industries along the way, so it was all loops and sidings as well as the running lines, so there's still sufficient width to 4-track most of the way to Cheshunt, though probably not beyond to Broxbourne. But this is where the savings can be made by allowing fast trains to pass slow ones. What holds the StanEx up is catching up with the Hertfords on approach to Broxbourne and the Cambridges between Harlow and Bishops Stortford. By having a fast and slow line it would be possible to re-time departures from Liv St so that the StanEx gets a clear run through.

After that, much of the line is through farmland, but at the stations that are currently two-track you may have problems, especially where these are hemmed in by river and buildings and have a level crossing. Bishops Stortford is a slow, twisty and narrow obstacle, Mountfichet is narrow, then you ideally want grade seperated between the Stansted branch and the Cambridge line.

Bishops Stortford is slow, but it doesn't cost that much in lost time. However, there isn't much you could do about it without flattening large swathes of the town around the station and cutting a new alignment into the slopes that make up the town (it's not for nothing that there is a high retaining wall on the east side of the station). And for what? You might shave off a minute at most, perhaps.

Mountfitchet is also fine and passage through there does not require a reduction in speed. Grade seperation is also not required, not that there's room to achieve it.

A second tunnel bore under the runway would be handy, as would a an additional platform or two at the airport, especially if there's extra Ely (or even Norwich) services.

A second tunnel bore would be handy and could save a minute or two. Extra platform space would depend on the services. There are already plans to extend the two main platforms to 16 cars length to accommodate 4 + 12. If there is to be an Ely service then it could easily be platformed in the same way as the Stratfords (which will apparently only be running as far as Bishops Stortford from some indeterminate date in the future) and still leave space for the regular StanEx service. If there are to be Norwich trains too, then I would imagine that XC might decide not to bother serving the airport any more. They aren't the most reliable of performers into Stansted anyway and will often terminate short at Cambridge if they are delayed.

Quite honestly the WA doesn't need many tweaks in order to deliver faster journey times and greater capacity. Linespeed south of Stansted Mountfitchet is limited largely by signal spacing as much as by curvature, but altering that would reduce frequency and, therefore, capacity. The best thing that could be done is to 4-track the Lea Valley, in part if not in it's entirety, as well as extending platforms. All the other stuff just wouldn't be possible without major engineering works that would yield just a minute here or a minute there. Barely worth the cost and aggravation, I would suggest.

O L Leigh
 

jopsuk

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Not correct.

Stansted Airport is built on the site of the wartime RAF Stansted Mountfitchet, the name being taken from the nearby village. However, in spite of it's official name, it was known in spoken and written forms simply as RAF Stansted. But this is not a standardised spelling. The spelling is taken directly from the name of the village.

Stanstead Abbotts is a different place altogether. It's located between Roydon and Ware and is served by St Margarets station on the Hertford East branch.

I'd bet if you went far enough back, you'd find Stansted Mountfichet being spelled "Stanstead" and Stanstead Abbotts being spelled "Stansted"- a little research reveals Abbotts (or Abbots) as being "Stanstede" in the Doomsday book. A lot of places used to have several spellings. There's also more "Stansteds" and "Stansteads" in England.

The disection of my post kind of reinforces my point- that a "proper" sorting of the line would hilariously expensive.
 

Bald Rick

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A second tunnel bore would be handy and could save a minute or two. Extra platform space would depend on the services. There are already plans to extend the two main platforms to 16 cars length to accommodate 4 + 12. If there is to be an Ely service then it could easily be platformed in the same way as the Stratfords (which will apparently only be running as far as Bishops Stortford from some indeterminate date in the future) and still leave space for the regular StanEx service. If there are to be Norwich trains too, then I would imagine that XC might decide not to bother serving the airport any more. They aren't the most reliable of performers into Stansted anyway and will often terminate short at Cambridge if they are delayed.

O L Leigh

The second tunnel was going to be a planning condition of the second runway, so that's a distant dream for the mo.

Platform 1 is being lengthened to 16 coaches, at the country (hotel) end; whilst platform 2 is being lengthened to 4x23m, at the London (tunnel) end. Both will be done by December.

The Stratford - Stanted is being doubled to half hourly and only gets as far as Bishop's Stortford - main aim for this is links from WA stations to Westfield (largest covered shopping mall in Europe when it opens). This happens in December also.

NX will not be running an Ely (or Norwich) to Stansted, at least not in this franchise, as there aren't enough units (or drivers) to do it.

Finally the XC Birmingham - Stansted are by some distance their best performing service group, usually with PPM of 92%+ and RT of 85%+. This is actually better than the Sansted Express service group. It's an important market for XC, and they do not want to give it up.
 
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