Stansted Express question

[nick468]

Hiya,

I'm flying back to Ireland from Stansted Airport on Sunday, May 30, and am planning to take the Stansted Express from Liverpool Street.

As I will be in London most of this day and travelling around, I was planning to buy a paper travelcard, and get a National Rail ticket going from Enfield Lock (at the Z6 boundary) to Stansted Airport. It works out significantly cheaper than getting a ticket from Liverpool Street.

I was just wondering if you think this ticket will be accepted on the train if I travel from Liverpool Street? The Stansted Express does not go through Enfield Lock en route, but I guess I could claim that I travelled from there, and boarded the train at Tottenham Hale (they never check tickets before this, and if they did, I could just show them my travelcard).

What are your thoughts on this matter? Alternatively, do you know if its possible to buy a ticket which would say "Boundary Zone 6" instead? I have heard these are available.

Please get back to me with your thoughts,

Nick Rabbitts

 

[Daniel]

The Stansted Express train does go through Enfield Lock. I know because it means I get stuck at a level crossing at least 8 times an hour ;D

I've had T/Cards + BZ6-SSD accepted before. You shouldn't have a problem IMO.

 

[yorkie]

You should get a ticket from Boundary Zone 6, rather than Enfield Lock. This is priced at £13.00 for a CDR (Off Peak Day Return) or £12.40 for a CBA (Super Off Peak Day Return).

Technically a ticket from Enfield Lock is not valid as the train does not call there. In reality it would probably be accepted anyway.

 

[nick468]

Thanks for the replies. When you refer to the Boundary Zone 6 ticket prices, are these with or without the railcard discount?

Is it possible to get a boundary zone 6 ticket from the machine, or does it have to be bought over the counter? Am I likely to come across any issue, if I have to buy over the counter?

Nick

 

[transportphoto]

The prices are without a RC - I doubt TVM's sell these. If you have any trouble buying these over the counter just tell them the following:

"Enter Boundary (or 0072) into their From Field and it will soon turn up!"

The ticket can be bought from any National Rail Ticket office (not London Underground) so it may be worth buying it at a quieter station during the day (on your travels) to avoid the q's at Liverpool St.

FYI: 0072 is the National Location Code for Boundary Zone 6.

 

[nick468]

Thanks transportphoto. I will bear the info in mind. Ironically, I was planning to buy the ticket at Enfield Lock the day before, as I am staying in the Premier Inn there next Saturday.



Nick

 

[transportphoto]

Thats fine - change my previous statement to 'TVM's will NOT sell these Tickets'!

 

[Daniel]

Thanks transportphoto. I will bear the info in mind. Ironically, I was planning to buy the ticket at Enfield Lock the day before, as I am staying in the Premier Inn there next Saturday.

Nick

You're staying just down the road from me, then

The ticket office at Enfield Lock is open until around 1pm Monday to Saturday, and they're normally pretty good with relatively simple things like boundary zone extensions

 

[yorkie]

Thanks transportphoto. I will bear the info in mind. Ironically, I was planning to buy the ticket at Enfield Lock the day before, as I am staying in the Premier Inn there next Saturday.

You can buy the ticket at any ticket office. Unfortunately a BZ6 (0072) ticket cannot be bought online.

 

[NLC1072]

Just a quick response - as Stansted Express does not stop at Enfield Lock, the ticket will not be valid between Enfield Lock and the next stop that it stops at i.e. Harlow Town or Bishops Stortford (where they won't be able to tell whether you got a joining service or not). If a member of the on-board team comes through you will be penalty fared, I know, I used to be a member of the on-board team!

and as to why the tickets are so expensive to SSD, it is because only SOS/SOR/FOS/FOR can be issued for SSD

 

[Daniel]

Correct, that's why we moved onto Boundary Zone Extensions, which are valid

You may or may not be aware, National Express removed the on-board crew quite a while ago, leaving only trolly dollies - this in favour or RPI's forming a "gateline" at the Airport and occasionally TOM, (although this method wouldn't prevent people using Z16+ENL-SSD, as there is a stopping service on which that combination would be valid.

 

[bakerstreet]

If a member of the on-board team comes through you will be penalty fared, I know, I used to be a member of the on-board team!

Would that really mean a penalty fare for having split tickets? Surely penalty fares are for those who are attempting to evade a fare, surely having a combination of tickets covering the entire journey shouldn't result in a potential legal case against you, just for catching a fast train and not a stopper?! Surely this is closer to using a ticket off route, out of time etc and an excess would be a fairer charge in the eyes of most reasonable views?

 

[yorkie]

Just a quick response - as Stansted Express does not stop at Enfield Lock, the ticket will not be valid between Enfield Lock and the next stop that it stops at i.e. Harlow Town or Bishops Stortford (where they won't be able to tell whether you got a joining service or not). If a member of the on-board team comes through you will be penalty fared, I know, I used to be a member of the on-board team!

and as to why the tickets are so expensive to SSD, it is because only SOS/SOR/FOS/FOR can be issued for SSD

That seems harsh, are you sure a PF is appropriate? If you can let me know what your instructions were that would be helpful, as I believe that PFs are being used inappropriately, and this is strong evidence of that.

Interestingly when I asked for a ticket from BZ6 to Ipswich, not realising I had to split further to get it from BZ6, at Liverpool St (Yes, the same station Stansted Express operates from) and made it clear I was using a fast train, I was issued with a ticket from Harold Wood. I was assured it would be accepted, and it was.

How can you explain that?

Would that really mean a penalty fare for having split tickets? Surely penalty fares are for those who are attempting to evade a fare,

Where on earth do you get that idea from?!?!

surely having a combination of tickets covering the entire journey shouldn't result in a potential legal case against you, just for catching a fast train and not a stopper?! Surely this is closer to using a ticket off route, out of time etc and an excess would be a fairer charge in the eyes of most reasonable views?

While I agree that no legal case could be pursued, I think you are very confused about PFs!

I do, however, agree that an excess (in this case £0.00) is far more appropriate than a PF.

It is my firm believe that PFs are being used inappropriately, both the above posts are evidence of that. PFs are used as a means to attack legitimate passengers for making a simple, easy mistake to make, and this should not be punished by charging extortionate amounts of money, especially as ticketing rules are so ludicrous and difficult to follow. Rules so complex that some guards and ticket clerks cannot follow them themselves. Yet on the other hand, PFs are also issued as an alternative to prosecution. No wonder the general public get confused.

They are unfair, they penalise legitimate customers while rewarding refusers, fraudsters and avoiders.

They are used as a means to threaten, to intimidate, to treat customers not as customers but, frankly, as pieces of dirt!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The NXEA PF FAQ is here:

http://www.nationalexpresseastangli...formation/penalty_fares__1/penalty_fares_faqs

They've changed it a bit, but I did this spoof to show how utterly ridiculous PFs are:-

http://yorkie.southtpe.co.uk/penaltymeals.htm

Why don't restaurants charge penalty meals? Because they'd go out of business instantly for treating passengers like s**t. Ah, but the rail industry is different? Well, yes and no. If there is competition, people will go elsewhere if they are treated badly (Hence why GC/HT/WSMR have the opposite approach - to attract custom) but where a TOC has a monopoly, they know they can treat customers badly and they have no choice but to keep coming back!

 

[bakerstreet]

I think you are very confused about PFs!!

That's me confused and some RPIs then !! At least I'm not alone : )

 

[NLC1072]

Would that really mean a penalty fare for having split tickets? Surely penalty fares are for those who are attempting to evade a fare, surely having a combination of tickets covering the entire journey shouldn't result in a potential legal case against you, just for catching a fast train and not a stopper?! Surely this is closer to using a ticket off route, out of time etc and an excess would be a fairer charge in the eyes of most reasonable views?

as an ex ticket inspector, you only look at the ticket for which the train is travelling through, its like;

The inspector sees the ticket from Enfield to Stansted, and realises the last stop was Tottenham Hale, how did the person get to Enfield lock, the previous ticket would have no influence either because the train has no relevance to Enfield lock as it doesn't stop there and you'd be forced to look it that way following the rules. Infact the correct fare is the Tottenham Hale to Stansted airport... which is a little bit more, not much... but if you have the Enflied ticket you are still liable for penalty fare, although they were rarely used for this.

if the tickets were split, then it would have to be at a station where the stansted express stops, i.e. tottenham hale within the zones if it was a travel card you had, although bz6 works just fine, but coming back in you can't actually get a bz6... strange rules!

 

[HITMAN]

as an ex ticket inspector, you only look at the ticket for which the train is travelling through, its like;

The inspector sees the ticket from Enfield to Stansted, and realises the last stop was Tottenham Hale, how did the person get to Enfield lock, the previous ticket would have no influence either because the train has no relevance to Enfield lock as it doesn't stop there and you'd be forced to look it that way following the rules. Infact the correct fare is the Tottenham Hale to Stansted airport... which is a little bit more, not much... but if you have the Enflied ticket you are still liable for penalty fare, although they were rarely used for this.

if the tickets were split, then it would have to be at a station where the stansted express stops, i.e. tottenham hale within the zones if it was a travel card you had, although bz6 works just fine, but coming back in you can't actually get a bz6... strange rules!

Well, they could have travelled south to Tottenham Hale then boarded there.

 

[NLC1072]

Well, they could have travelled south to Tottenham Hale then boarded there.

not covered by any permitted and has no Via tickets, this is still this ticket: Origin Tottenham Hale to Stansted Airport

if anything travelling south will cost them more too

 

[HITMAN]

not covered by any permitted and has no Via tickets, this is still this ticket: Origin Tottenham Hale to Stansted Airport

if anything travelling south will cost them more too

Ah okay I see, he'd be probably best buying the ticket from Tottenham hail then, that or traveling North on a slow train which stops at Enfield Lock and changing at Harlow North

 

[NLC1072]

Ah okay I see, he'd be probably best buying the ticket from Tottenham hail then, that or traveling North on a slow train which stops at Enfield Lock and changing at Harlow North

Almost perfect! lol... (Harlow Town) but yeah spot on