Stansted Airport

[PTF62]

It now appears that although you can buy off peak return tickets from London to Stansted Airport, you cannot buy off-peak returns from Stansted Airport to London. From Stansted Airport it is now 'peak' all day 7 days of the week.

Presumably this is to target tourists flying into the UK, and get them used to 'rip-off Britain' from the start.

However for local people living near Stansted, who would normally use the airport rail station to get to London, this is a bit of a problem.

Anyway, playing about with the timetables and ticket prices, it appears that tickets from Audley End are valid via Stansted Airport. As the ticket would be a normal 'cheap day return' then it would appear to be valid to start your journey 'late' at Stansted, and also break it early at Stansted on the way back. i.e. you end up with an off-peak return from Stansted Airport to London.

Is there anything wrong with this logic?

 

[yorkie]

Not at all; it's perfectly valid.

If anyone moans at you, refer them to the NCoC (and get their name and report them) but I'd be very surprised if anyone does.

 

[Chris B]

This may be something connected with the heightened security at airports & trying to 'persuade' non-flying people from going to the airport. The fewer non-airport using people there are parking / using the airport, the easier it is to keep it secure.

 

[Nick W]

This may be something connected with the heightened security at airports & trying to 'persuade' non-flying people from going to the airport. The fewer non-airport using people there are parking / using the airport, the easier it is to keep it secure.

Because non-flying people represent a security threat... :roll:

 

[Chris B]

Because non-flying people represent a security threat... :roll:

Indeed - you roll up,park your car, leave something nasty in the car or airport & get on the train.....

The fewer non-airport users, the easier it is to keep eyes on those likely to do that, regardless of cost!

Understable, I guess, if you believe that the threat is as high as they try & make us believe!

 

[Edvid]

Anyway, playing about with the timetables and ticket prices, it appears that tickets from Audley End are valid via Stansted Airport. As the ticket would be a normal 'cheap day return' then it would appear to be valid to start your journey 'late' at Stansted, and also break it early at Stansted on the way back. i.e. you end up with an off-peak return from Stansted Airport to London.

By the same token, it appears that you can travel from West Drayton to London via Heathrow Central, even including the use of Heathrow Express - for £6! This is almost insane considering that a day return from Heathrow Central to London is £11.20 with Heathrow Connect and £17 with Heathrow Express.

Mind you, I don't know if such a ticket is valid though because there is no direct rail link between Heathrow Central and West Drayton, at least there is one between Audley End and Stansted. Are Heathrow Express subject to the NCoC?

 

[Chris B]

Are Heathrow Express subject to the NCoC?

Not from Airport Junction. Tough luck....

 

[A60K]

By the same token, it appears that you can travel from West Drayton to London via Heathrow Central, even including the use of Heathrow Express - for £6! This is almost insane considering that a day return from Heathrow Central to London is £11.20 with Heathrow Connect and £17 with Heathrow Express.

Mind you, I don't know if such a ticket is valid though because there is no direct rail link between Heathrow Central and West Drayton, at least there is one between Audley End and Stansted. Are Heathrow Express subject to the NCoC?

Quite apart from the premium fares on the Heathrow services, the doubling-back rule in the Routing Guide would knock this idea on the head - you would have to double-back between H&H and Heathrow which is against the rule, and (naturally enough!) there's no easement to allow this.

There are some areas in which doubling back is allowed, because of the pattern of train services (for example Eastbourne on a ticket between Lewes and Bexhill), and it's always permitted to continue a journey by going back over the same bit of line if the geography dictates (for example Liverpool Street on a Clapton to Ilford ticket).

 

[Z12XE]

This may be something connected with the heightened security at airports & trying to 'persuade' non-flying people from going to the airport.

No - I've seen the fares breif from when this was implemented, it was an NXEA thing at the request of their route director.

It doesn't say as much, but its simply to extract more money from those using the station who dont know any better

 

[BOBmcbob]

Hi,

Stumbled upon this site looking for some decent information about the stansted 'express'. Some really interesting stuff. NX making everything 'Peak' is nothing short of disgusting.

The nearest station to my home happens to be Stansted Airport - about 5 miles away.

Like so many other commuters in the area I used to drive 10 miles to Bishops Stortford to get the train to London everyday, simply because there is no commuter parkining at Stansted but also because the ticket from there is disproportianatly high when compared to other stations .

I know it's an airport station, but unlike Heathrow or Gatwick there are no other TOCs that can get you to London from there - and the buses take too much time (most of which operated by NX too).

Therefore, NX effectively have a monopoly on anyone wanting to get to London from the surrounding area (without driving) - wasn't the point of privitisation to bring in competition?

Anyway, I want to know what is the cheapest way to get to Stansted for a commuter like me - I know about the Audley End (incidently someone at the airport wouldn't sell me that ticket when I asked for it, but that's another story)-

I'm just curious are there any other interesting ticketing methods from Stansted?


Thanks,

Bob

 

[PTF62]

I know about the Audley End (incidently someone at the airport wouldn't sell me that ticket when I asked for it, but that's another story)

Are ticket offices not obliged to sell you any ticket that you ask for?

 

[yorkie]

(incidently someone at the airport wouldn't sell me that ticket when I asked for it, but that's another story)-

Get their name and report them to their TOC (customer services).

If nothing is done, write to ATOC as they are in breach of ATOC rules. Also write to Passenger Focus.

 

[paul1609]

I think that you will find that TOCs are able to restrict the range of tickets they sell at a station. The impartial retailling rule only applies to tickets from that station.

 

[Metroland]

Therefore, NX effectively have a monopoly on anyone wanting to get to London from the surrounding area (without driving) - wasn't the point of privitisation to bring in competition?

Don't forget they own the competing coach service that hasn't been doing so well of late because of the lower footfall at the airport. Is this a cynical attempt to shift people onto coaches? It seems odd raising fares at a time of falling demand for both services, although coaches have been doing worse than the trains, probably down to the typical demographic.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think that you will find that TOCs are able to restrict the range of tickets they sell at a station. The impartial retailling rule only applies to tickets from that station.

I've never been told that and I work in a ticket office!!

Infact many ticket offices are checked for impartiallity on journeys not involving that station.

I have always understood impartiallity as:

Having to offer the cheapest valid ticket for the journey being made, unless a specific ticket is requested;

51% of the available ticket selling points must be able to sell every ticket which is allowed by its own restrictions;

 

[Z12XE]

Is this a cynical attempt to shift people onto coaches?

I doubt it. NXEA have tight franchise targets to meet, especially if NX want the franchise extension.

Add this to the recent change to off peak Stansted services (now only 4 v 8 cars). My opinion is that this is due to the Business Director's (not route director as i incorrectly described him in my previous post) background in sales and marketing, and not railways.

 

[O L Leigh]

Well I can only tell you what I see as a driver, and the trains are rammed. It might be pricey, but it is still an attractive option.

The other thing that I should just correct is that NX run a monopoly. They don't, as there are other coach operators running competing services, most notably Terravision who operate a service from right outside the Bishopsgate entrance to Liv St. In addition, NXEA and NX Coaches might be part of the same group of companies and share a name, but they are competitors.

As to the price hike at the airport, I did hear a rumour (and I should stress that it is only a rumour) that the idea was to discourage commuters from coming to the airport to use the trains in order to preserve capacity for airport users.

Add this to the recent change to off peak Stansted services (now only 4 v 8 cars). My opinion is that this is due to the Business Director's (not route director as i incorrectly described him in my previous post) background in sales and marketing, and not railways.

The reason for the reduction in train length is due to a rumoured overspend which they are trying to recoup by imposing a mileage reduction programme on the trains. I don't think that has anything to do with a directors background, except that he/she obviously wasn't with the company the last time that StanEx trains routinely divide and combine. If they were they would have remembered just how many operational problems it caused.

O L Leigh

 

[Z12XE]

I don't think that has anything to do with a directors background, except that he/she obviously wasn't with the company the last time that StanEx trains routinely divide and combine.

Sorry I worded my post wrong, I wasn't putting the split/join down to the specific director.

If they were they would have remembered just how many operational problems it caused.

The same problem is happening at Clacton. The 360s are being split down to 4 car off peak, but recently there have been problems with the wrong unit being picked up in the afternoon, leading to units which are short of miles and needed to end at ICS going back to Clacton 2 days away from the depot.

It was also supposed to happen with the GE Metros but they remembered the problems that cause when the service fell apart during the day leading to not having time to get the other half out of Gidea Park and 4 cars running in the evening peak.

 

[O L Leigh]

The problems I was referring to are specific technical ones rather than diagramming ones, but I understand what you're referring to.

O L Leigh

 

[peteste]

A good option if you're east of the centre of London is to make your way to Stratford and get the National Express coach from outside the station. It heads straight to the airport with no intermediate stops and takes 40 to 50 mins depending on traffic etc. Every 30 minutes 24 hours a day - £8 one way.

 

[dan_atki]

Please don't drag up old threads.