Stanley Raymond.

[Railwaysceptic]

Today Sir Stanley Raymond is a slightly mysterious figure, unknown by most younger rail enthusiasts and forgotten by many older ones. In his famous memoirs, G. F. Fiennes mentions Raymond with respect but little affection and Stewart Joy's book The Train That Ran Away refers to Stanley Raymond only four times.

What is known about Stanley Raymond's career before he became British Rail's Chairman of The Board? Does anyone know what he did after being ousted by Barbara Castle?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Terry Gourvish’s ‘British Railways 1948-1973, A Business History’ has 40 index references to Raymond, some over several pages.

Too lengthy to wade through on Christmas Day, I’m afraid.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Michael Bonavia in 'BR: The First 25 Years' (1981) p124-5 gives some of his background.

'He was proud of the fact that he had come from an orphanage, and fought his way to the top, first as trade union organiser, then as a personnel expert in London Transport, a manager with British Road Services, Asst. G.M. BR Scottish Region, G.M. Western Region, finally attaining Board status'

He succeeded Dr. B. as BR Chairman 1965-1967 and was sacked by Barbara Castle over major disagreements on the proposed (1968) Transport Act. He also famously sacked Gerry Fiennes over his indiscretions as GM Eastern Region.

He was also responsible for the notorious traffic surveys that underpinned the Beeching Report, and seemed to operate a reign of terror when he was at the WR (1962-3). Gerry Fiennes, not an unbiased observer, says:-

'Raymond had come to shake them by the neck. "I have had to keep sticking pins in myself to be beastly to you" he told their debating society when he left after 19months. He had gone like a destroying wind through the traditional practices of the GWR. He had symbolically stripped the works of Brunel ... from the Board Room and corridors ... down to the basement. The staff were at odds about it all. Many were frankly bolshie; many were dazed; some were frightened..' He also insisted on maroon livery for the 'Westerns' and the coaching stock.

I can't find any reference to his life after BR - he probably deserves a 'Wiki' entry.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Hated on WR for what he did in stripping the GWR out of WR and hated on ER for what he did to Gerry Fiennes,

When the admin offices at OOC were redone in about 1988/9, there was a plaque in the corridor marking the conversion of the steam depot with Stanley Raymond’s name on it. I said to Chris Kinchin-Smith, the AME and my boss, “we aren’t putting that back, are we?” “No”, he said. We were both ex FP/KX and both brought up in the Fiennes ethos, which was still strong long after he left.

To be fair to him, the traffic surveys that were done for the Beeching report (one week in April 1961) weren’t that notorious, except to those that didn’t get the answers they were looking for.

He, according to the people that I worked with and knew him, a superb organiser but, at times, lacked the human touch or least a little human understanding. He didn’t have what Fiennes had and that did lead to later difficulties between them.

The 1960’s did encourage slightly cold technocrats to rise to senior roles. Whether it was needed, I’ll leave that judgement to others.

 

[Taunton]

I believe being told by Barbara Castle to sack Fiennes (whose main book contains all of two lines of criticism of ministry indecision, but Castle was well known for being unable to take criticism), and Raymond being dispensed with himself, happened within a few days.

Ian Allan's autobiography has detail of their annual dinner days after Fiennes' book appeared, where Raymond as BR Chairman was chief guest, who told Allan as the book's publisher that he had got Raymond the sack, and proceeded to make a rude if not nauseating speech. Seems to have been an unpleasant chap all round.

 

[Western Sunset]

... where Raymond as BR Chairman was chief guest, who told Allan as the book's publisher that he had got Raymond the sack, and proceeded to make a rude if not nauseating speech. Seems to have been an unpleasant chap all round.

Rather confused about this bit... Did Raymond sack himself?

 

[Titfield]

I believe being told by Barbara Castle to sack Fiennes (whose main book contains all of two lines of criticism of ministry indecision, but Castle was well known for being unable to take criticism), and Raymond being dispensed with himself, happened within a few days.

Ian Allan's autobiography has detail of their annual dinner days after Fiennes' book appeared, where Raymond as BR Chairman was chief guest, who told Allan as the book's publisher that he had got Raymond the sack, and proceeded to make a rude if not nauseating speech. Seems to have been an unpleasant chap all round.

That has always been one thing that has baffled me. Fiennes criticism is very short and arguably justified. Sacking seems to me to have been a wholly unjustifiable response.

 

[randyrippley]

One of the "what-ifs" of history: this Hansard report indicates that Peter Parker was first choice for the job
Reading between the lines there seem too be suggestions he turned it down because of a low salary

British Railways (Chairman) (Hansard, 20 December 1967)

British Railways (Chairman) (Hansard, 20 December 1967)

api.parliament.uk

14. Mr. Gresham Cooke
asked the Minister of Transport how many people were officially approached to become Chairman of British Railways before the post was filled.
.................................

Mrs. Castle
I am sure that hon. and right hon. Members on both sides of the House will agree that it should be the rule to observe strict confidence about the necessary preliminary soundings leading up to the appointment of Chairmen and members of nationalised boards. In view of the widespread speculation in the Press, however, I think it right in this instance to state that Mr. Peter Parker was the only person to whom the post was offered apart from Mr. Johnson. He was offered a salary of £12,500 per annum, which is the salary which Mr. Johnson will receive.

Mr. Gresham Cooke
Is it not true that the right hon. Lady approached about eight business men for this job? If she had been prepared to pay a proper salary commensurate with the job, could she not have got a business man with the standing of Lord Beeching, for instance?

§Mrs. Castle
I do not think that the hon. Gentleman's illustration very much strengthens his case. Of course it is desirable that when appointments are to e made, more than one name should be considered, but the position is as I have said—that Mr. Peter Parker was the only other person to whom the job was offered, apart from Mr. Johnson

Sectorisation could have happened ten years earlier

 

[Taunton]

That has always been one thing that has baffled me. Fiennes criticism is very short and arguably justified. Sacking seems to me to have been a wholly unjustifiable response.

Fiennes was sacked ostensibly because he had his book published without full approval from the BR Board. This quite overlooks that he had written lengthy articles in Modern Railways, and its predecessor Trains Illustrated, for many years beforehand, maybe one per year, without ever having needed any such authorisation before publication. I think it was just an excuse that was made up.

Government ministries, both the minister themselves and even more so the top civil servants, do not take public criticism from anyone in their reporting structure. Whether it is justified is completely beside the point.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

That has always been one thing that has baffled me. Fiennes criticism is very short and arguably justified. Sacking seems to me to have been a wholly unjustifiable response.

Mr. Fiennes himself subsequently made clear that he had received a memo from the Board reminding him that under B. R. rules any book needed to be vetted before being cleared for publication. He did not comply with that and was fired. He always said he had no-one to blame but himself for his dismissal.