Standing Passengers Encouraged To Sit In First Class

[pt_mad]

If First is declassified do they stop bringing the complementary refreshments around at that point? (For first class ticket holders)?

 

[221129]

If First is declassified do they stop bringing the complementary refreshments around at that point? (For first class ticket holders)?

Generally yes. As then there is no first class.

 

[Wombat]

First class passengers would get the butler to slap the plebs out of the way?

I once travelled on a Euston-Manchester service where the outrageously impertinent guard attempted to declassify first class. The thought of sharing my carriage with a bunch of peasants with their ugly Love Island tattoos and their feral offspring and their filthy Burger King whopper meals and their cacophonous popular music beat combos was so appalling that I was forced to make my batman stand at the carriage door with his service revolver ready to repel the verminous tide. I later had the impudent guard made into a rather fetching set of brogues.

Sorry. I usually travel in first when on intercity journeys, and I've no objection to declassification or spot upgrades. It seems a little bit wasteful and perverse to have passengers standing for hours when there are empty seats in first. From my point of view I've paid to guarantee myself a comfy seat with sufficient legroom, and while I'd prefer not to share my journey with sodcasting bastards I don't think that's a good enough reason to force someone to stand for two hours or more. (But if the guard opts to eject said sodcasting bastards through the window I'll cheerfully hold his or her ticket machine and provide an alibi).

 

[Monty]

I once travelled on a Euston-Manchester service where the outrageously impertinent guard attempted to declassify first class. The thought of sharing my carriage with a bunch of peasants with their ugly Love Island tattoos and their feral offspring and their filthy Burger King whopper meals and their cacophonous popular music beat combos was so appalling that I was forced to make my batman stand at the carriage door with his service revolver ready to repel the verminous tide. I later had the impudent guard made into a rather fetching set of brogues.

Sorry. I usually travel in first when on intercity journeys, and I've no objection to declassification or spot upgrades. It seems a little bit wasteful and perverse to have passengers standing for hours when there are empty seats in first. From my point of view I've paid to guarantee myself a comfy seat with sufficient legroom, and while I'd prefer not to share my journey with sodcasting bastards I don't think that's a good enough reason to force someone to stand for two hours or more. (But if the guard opts to eject said sodcasting bastards through the window I'll cheerfully hold his or her ticket machine and provide an alibi).

Haha. Post of the day, I tip my hat to you sir.

 

[MCSHF007]

Just wish everyone who's allowed/choose to 'chance it' in First Class would 'blend in'/behave. Not rocket science - please don't give the moaners (including myself) reason to moan.

 

[Parallel]

My opinion is when standard class is full & standing, the priority should move away from providing a first class service, and instead move to accommodate as many passengers as possible.

 

[ShwervinMervin]

What I often notice is, even if the train has lots of space, they de-classify it. This happened on my Journey from PAD-RDG (It was a IET going a lot further than that)
No idea why they do that, and I totally don't understand why Full Paying FC Passengers get standard passengers sitting there.
When I got off the train, I looked in, and there were loads of free seats, just people refusing to sit there... Odd..

 

[All Line Rover]

Last weekend I tried to upgrade to 1st on XC from Sheffield to be told there weren't any seats available, despite only 2 being occupied at that time. Grudgingly I was allowed to do so, being told he'd found one seat left. From Darlington the train filled up totally and I could see his point! At Newcastle I don't know how many must have had to stand going further north but from the crowd waiting to board it would have been a lot.

There's nothing wrong with that. It's very frustrating for passengers, particularly when travelling as a group, to find their reserved first class seating (for 1st APs, which are not cheap on Sundays!) occupied by upgraders who have been sold upgrades by a guard who didn't bother to check whether those seats were reserved from a later station.

 

[All Line Rover]

If First is declassified do they stop bringing the complementary refreshments around at that point? (For first class ticket holders)?

Whenever travelling on a declassified VTWC service, whether with a first class ticket or a standard class ticket, the first class service has continued to be offered to first class ticket holders. On occasion, when holding a standard class ticket, I have even been offered a cooked breakfast, which I have always declined. The fact that VTWC don't seem to give up with the first class catering when first is declassified is one of VTWC's stronger points.

I regularly travel on the 08.20 Wolverhampton - Birmingham. This is a very busy West Midlands Railway service consisting of a 350 with a small first class bay in the centre. By about halfway along the route, you will always have plenty of standees in standard. In my years of travelling on this service I've seen first class declassified once... a couple of weeks ago, during half term, when the train was much quieter than usual. Go figure!

There is no first class accommodation on Wolverhampton to Birmingham stopping services such as the 08.20. If a class 350 is used, the first class compartment is declassified.

 

[Killingworth]

There's nothing wrong with that. It's very frustrating for passengers, particularly when travelling as a group, to find their reserved first class seating (for 1st APs, which are not cheap on Sundays!) occupied by upgraders who have been sold upgrades by a guard who didn't bother to check whether those seats were reserved from a later station.

Precisely, and that was the point I made in the following sentence. The train did fill up later, but I'd not have seen that if I'd left it anywhere up to Darlington. However I'd checked and sat in a seat that was specifically showing as unreserved all the way. The seat opposite me was reserved from Darlington but not taken up.

 

[73001]

Is there any come back on the guard for declassifying first? I realise that ultimately it's their train but do they have to provide any sort of evidence as it may cost the TOC in terms of repaying the fare difference. I've seen it happen quite a bit on TPE services but as they are generally rammed to the rafters I don't think there would be any argument.

 

[mrcheek]

Ive only once been on a train where 1st was declassified. It was a TPE service, on the core between York and Manchester. There were a couple of TPE train managers on a day off travelling in First, and when the train manager came round one of them asked "Why have you declassified First?" "Because its so busy," he replied. "No it isnt, this is nothing". I guess different train managers have different views...

 

[All Line Rover]

Precisely, and that was the point I made in the following sentence. The train did fill up later, but I'd not have seen that if I'd left it anywhere up to Darlington. However I'd checked and sat in a seat that was specifically showing as unreserved all the way. The seat opposite me was reserved from Darlington but not taken up.

Most guards would not want every single unreserved seat to be occupied in case a first class walk-up ticket holder turned up. If you'd been travelling no further than Darlington, I'm sure the guard wouldn't have been cautious about selling an upgrade.

 

[vlad]

Ive only once been on a train where 1st was declassified. It was a TPE service, on the core between York and Manchester. There were a couple of TPE train managers on a day off travelling in First, and when the train manager came round one of them asked "Why have you declassified First?" "Because its so busy," he replied. "No it isnt, this is nothing". I guess different train managers have different views...

I went from Manchester to York and back on TPE this weekend. Both services were full and standing.

First class wasn't declassified (or if it was they never said), presumably because it was heaving in First as well and allowing people to move there from Standard wouldn't have given anyone any extra space.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I'll be honest - if a passenger refuses to move out of my seat then I'd tell the Train Manager and say I have a mental disability which I have. I'd wait for him or her to find me a seat of the same type (for instance if I booked say a forward window table I'd get him to find me one - especially one where and if my reserved seat would be on the coastal view side!I

If he or she then basically said (and kindly offered) come in First Class and I'll upgrade you (if the train is full and standing), I'd happily pay for refreshments so it's fare on other passengers. I'd particularly do this if on a weekday.

If First Class is declassified on an InterCity service that has First Class accommodation then passengers should still pay for refreshments.

I hope this all makes sense.

 

[High Dyke]

The other side of the coin is the reluctance of some to sit next to someone else on a busy train. I don't doubt that a train has standing passengers on many occasions. I myself have stood on some fairly long journeys, but am surprised at how fellow travellers have an aversion to others where a seat is available.

 

[Hadders]

The other side of the coin is the reluctance of some to sit next to someone else on a busy train. I don't doubt that a train has standing passengers on many occasions. I myself have stood on some fairly long journeys, but am surprised at how fellow travellers have an aversion to others where a seat is available.

I find strategically placed luggage on seats an issue. I've often requested that the luggage give up its seat so I can sit down.

 

[LeylandLen]

If First is declassified do they stop bringing the complementary refreshment around at that point? (For first class ticket holders)?

I had an advance first one Saturday eve Euston to Preston with Virgin. on a 390 last year so was entitled to the complementary refreshments.The train manager declassified one First Class carriage and got those of us with First Class tickets to sit in the other 2 carriages so as to make the distribution of the complementary refreshments in the relevant carriages possible to genuine First class ticket holders.

 

[CC 72100]

I'll be honest - if a passenger refuses to move out of my seat then I'd tell the Train Manager and say I have a mental disability which I have. I'd wait for him or her to find me a seat of the same type (for instance if I booked say a forward window table I'd get him to find me one - especially one where and if my reserved seat would be on the coastal view side!I

A reservation is for *a* reserved seat, not a specific type of reserved seat.

 

[pt_mad]

A reservation is for *a* reserved seat, not a specific type of reserved seat.

This can be very embarrassing and I've known several occasions where passengers with disabilities and even booked assistance aren't able to be found seats in first class when they have first class tickets but no reservations. I've known the whole of a coach to go silent when a TM asked would two people please vacate their seats for a couple who require assistance. Leaving the couple embarrassed and asking the TM not to ask anymore and they'll stand due to clear embarrassment.

Current guidance as far as I know is still that even if passengers have disabilities, special requirements, have assistance or require priority seats, where they have no reservation passengers can still only be 'requested' to give up their seats and cannot be forced if they resist moving under polite pressure.

Can be very awkward indeed as not everyone is as polite and considerate as they should be.

 

[221129]

I'll be honest - if a passenger refuses to move out of my seat then I'd tell the Train Manager and say I have a mental disability which I have. I'd wait for him or her to find me a seat of the same type (for instance if I booked say a forward window table I'd get him to find me one - especially one where and if my reserved seat would be on the coastal view side!.

Good luck with that... it'll be any standard class seat or you'll be standing.

 

[grumblingalong]

Quite commonly done, although most of us will select and speak to people in person (older people, parents with children etc) to go and sit in first rather than announcing it to the whole world.

 

[Wombat]

Current guidance as far as I know is still that even if passengers have disabilities, special requirements, have assistance or require priority seats, where they have no reservation passengers can still only be 'requested' to give up their seats and cannot be forced if they resist moving under polite pressure.

I'm not surprised, as I don't really see how people could be forced to give up their seat. I'm a seeming-able-bodied middle-aged man who can quite happily walk onto and off a train, but I can't stand (as opposed to walk) for more than a few minutes without experiencing increasing amounts of back pain. If I were forced out of my seat I'd end up having to sit on the floor or, if no floor space was available, leave the train.