Standard Premium on Avanti

[TonyR]

Does anyone understand Avanti’s Standard Premium (SP) booking? I use Avanti’s Standard Premium all the time between Preston or Manchester Piccadilly and Euston but on Monday I want to go Preston to Milton Keynes Central. The trip needs a change at Crewe. When I try to book it as a single journey it tells me SP is not available. If I do two separate tickets it tells me its not available on the first leg but is on the second. But if I do the same Preston train but to Euston as the destination it offers me an SP ticket so there is clearly an SP carriage with availability from Preston to Crewe and on to London.

So why can’t I book it either as two tickets or one? I’ll book a standard ticket to Crewe and upgrade on the train but it makes no sense to have the carriages and availability but not allow them to be booked. I even tried their phone booking line but they had the same problem and mumbled something about perhaps fully booked Preston-Crewe but if it’s not fully booked Preston-Euston it isn’t Preston-Crewe either.

Thanks for any insights you can give.

 

[TonyR]

I can buy an ticket Crewe-Milton Keynes Central so it is available on that train. It’s the Preston-Crewe leg that I can’t although I can on the exact same train for Preston-Euston.

 

[CyrusWuff]

It's possible Avanti have either deliberately not put any SP availability in place for Preston - Crewe, so they can hold it back for longer distance journeys, or any availability that did exist is fully booked.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Standard Premium is only available on Avanti Pendolino services. If the train you'd be taking from Crewe to Milton Keynes is operated using an Evero (5/7 coach class 805/807), it only has first class or standard class. Therefore you won't be able to buy a SP ticket.

It's available on seven carriage Evero services too, but not five carriage ones.

 

[voyagerdude220]

It's possible Avanti have either deliberately not put any SP availability in place for Preston - Crewe, so they can hold it back for longer distance journeys, or any availability that did exist is fully booked.

That wouldn't surprise me, because I've been aware for a while that Avanti 99% of the time doesn't offer Advance tickets between Preston and Crewe/Stafford, yet they do on the same trains beyond them e.g. Preston to Wolverhampton. (Then there's the other issue that Preston to Wolverhampton is often more expensive than Preston to Birmingham New Street but that's way off topic, apologies!)

As long as it isn't the 06:00 from Preston on a Weekday or 10:17 from Preston on a Sunday I suspect it'll be a Pendolino so SP should be available.

 

[TonyR]

That wouldn't surprise me, because I've been aware for a while that Avanti 99% of the time doesn't offer Advance tickets between Preston and Crewe/Stafford, yet they do on the same trains beyond them e.g. Preston to Wolverhampton. (Then there's the other issue that Preston to Wolverhampton is often more expensive than Preston to Birmingham New Street but that's way off topic, apologies!)

As long as it isn't the 06:00 from Preston on a Weekday or 10:17 from Preston on a Sunday I suspect it'll be a Pendolino so SP should be available.

At least I’m not the only one thank goodness. And unfortunately the SP tickets all seem to be Advance ones so you can’t buy Wolverhampton or Birmingham and stop short either.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2026 ==

It's possible Avanti have either deliberately not put any SP availability in place for Preston - Crewe, so they can hold it back for longer distance journeys, or any availability that did exist is fully booked.

It can only be the first as it’s clearly not fully booked if they are available on the same train if you book through to Euston instead of Crewe.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Talking of SP.. Out of curiosity I looked at the cost of upgrading to SP between Preston and Milton Keynes- £37.50. There again even Crewe to Milton Keynes Central is also coming up as £37.50! [Despite only being just over 1 hour's travelling time on the fastest trains]

 

[Bletchleyite]

Talking of SP.. Out of curiosity I looked at the cost of upgrading to SP between Preston and Milton Keynes- £37.50. There again even Crewe to Milton Keynes Central is also coming up as £37.50! [Despite only being just over 1 hour's travelling time on the fastest trains]

The upgrades aren't great value any more, I think most of it is probably sold as Advances and Seatfrog (though when I've looked that wasn't great value either).

That said I rarely upgrade now as the refurbishment improved Standard so much that I find it more comfortable than the old first class seats with the new hard headrests which stick into my shoulders. Personal preference of course though.

 

[voyagerdude220]

The upgrades aren't great value any more, I think most of it is probably sold as Advances and Seatfrog (though when I've looked that wasn't great value either).

I strongly agree with you. Also (I could be wrong!) but I think the Advance Standard Premium tickets appear to be priced depending on the cost of the cheapest Standard Class Advance single plus the cost of the SP upgrade- as opposed to the cost of SP Advance tickets being based on how busy Avanti think SP will be on that particular train.

That said I rarely upgrade now as the refurbishment improved Standard so much that I find it more comfortable than the old first class seats with the new hard headrests which stick into my shoulders. Personal preference of course though.

Yes I agree. I think the refurbished Standard Class seats on Pendolinos are a big improvement compared to the original ones.

I haven't travelled with Avanti much at all but I suspect I'd find Standard Class more comfortable than SP/First due to how heavily occupied SP/First can be at times, particularly when First is only coach K on Pendolinos.

Talking of upgrade costs, I remember around 10 years ago the cost of a Weekend First Upgrade in the last year or two of Virgin Trains running the franchise Preston to Birmingham was only £10 (or was it £15?) each and you still got offered sandwiches/crisps/drinks etc. I deliberately got trains formed of 221s and thought it was a bargain. Now SP is £24..

 

[TonyR]

Just to close, I got on the train, there was an SP carriage and it was over half empty for my leg of the journey with plenty of available seats to choose from. So they could easily have sold me an SP ticket online had they wanted to. Yes you can buy the upgrade on the train but unlike the online tickets you don't get a railcard discount on the upgrade cost.

But thank you for everyone's advice and comments.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Just to close, I got on the train, there was an SP carriage and it was over half empty for my leg of the journey with plenty of available seats to choose from. So they could easily have sold me an SP ticket online had they wanted to. Yes you can buy the upgrade on the train but unlike the online tickets you don't get a railcard discount on the upgrade cost.

But thank you for everyone's advice and comments.

Sounds good!
I suspect the only advantages to buying the SP upgrade in advance are 1) A reserved seat and 2) the Railcard discount which (as you've already mentioned yourself) doesn't apply onboard.

Quite often I've found that the cost of buying a SP single is the combined cost of the cheapest available Standard Class tight plus the cost of a SP upgrade, however, where the cheapest Standard ticket is either an Off Peak or Anytime ticket, the SP ticket offered is an Advance one, despite the total cost of buying it in advance being the same as you'd pay buying the Standard Class one and upgrading onboard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A reserved seat using the seat selector can be a huge advantage. SP generally runs quite high load factors these days (so there may not be any spare seat) and if you want a 1 side seat (which for me is the whole benefit of the class given that I find the seats in Standard more comfortable now) those tend to go first.

 

[styles]

I'm not sure SP is worth it that often any more.

It doesn't offer food like first class.

It doesn't offer a quieter carriage because it's so highly-booked.

And the standard accommodation has been improved to the point that the difference in comfort is negligible in my view.

I've taken SP a couple of times (including free SP Club Avanti journeys), but I'm going 1st when I'm travelling for work, and usually standard when I'm travelling for leisure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've taken SP a couple of times (including free SP Club Avanti journeys), but I'm going 1st when I'm travelling for work, and usually standard when I'm travelling for leisure.

Lucky for some! Self-upgrading on work travel was one of the use cases for it I think, though Seatfrog also does that.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I'm not sure SP is worth it that often any more.

It doesn't offer food like first class.

It doesn't offer a quieter carriage because it's so highly-booked.

And the standard accommodation has been improved to the point that the difference in comfort is negligible in my view.

I've taken SP a couple of times (including free SP Club Avanti journeys), but I'm going 1st when I'm travelling for work, and usually standard when I'm travelling for leisure.

I agree with you and would even go as far as saying that I rarely bother with First on Avanti, let alone SP, simply because of how crowded both can get at times and of course the cost. Also the improvements in comfort in Standard Class since the Pendolinos have been refurbished. And in my opinion I don't think the Avanti First Class menus are good enough to warrant the premiums they charge (although equally I also think SP is a bit overpriced on routes where Standard Class isn't frequently rammed).

 

[styles]

Lucky for some! Self-upgrading on work travel was one of the use cases for it I think, though Seatfrog also does that.

Decision-making perks which come with being the sole worker in the company Once you take off corporation tax and dividends tax the premium for upgrading to 1st isn't as pricey as it seems. If I'm going to get 3-5h of work done on the train, it's not a bad hourly net cost for the peace and quiet, and get fed and watered along the way.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I've just sold tickets at work to a guy travelling Clitheroe to London return in May.

He had already planned his journey and done research before he came to my Ticket Office.

He's travelling via Leeds on LNER to Kings Cross both ways First Class. £113 in total with Senior Railcard.

Why not via Preston on Avanti?

Standard Premium would have been around £140 in total/First Class £277. [The cost of Advance Standard Premium Advance singles both ways was almost the same as him buying Standard Class tickets and upgrading to SP on the train both ways. Similarly the cost of buying First Class Advances would have been almost the same as him buying a First Off Peak Return. Also going via Manchester wasn't much cheaper either.

 

[sh24]

I still find SP worth it. A single seat with a decent sized table means productivity and, generally, the people in SP are less likely to be rowdy or annoying. But its certainly not the great value it used to be.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I still find SP worth it. A single seat with a decent sized table means productivity and, generally, the people in SP are less likely to be rowdy or annoying. But its certainly not the great value it used to be.

Fair points.

I wonder how well utilised SP (and First Class) is around the Avanti Network.

Around 20 years ago I used to enjoy frequently travelling Preston to Glasgow and back in First and paid no more than £30 (often £20-£25) each way First Class with Railcard discount, enjoying Breakfast on the way up. Now it would be around 3 times as much.

 

[D1537]

I've just sold tickets at work to a guy travelling Clitheroe to London return in May.

He had already planned his journey and done research before he came to my Ticket Office.

He's travelling via Leeds on LNER to Kings Cross both ways First Class. £113 in total with Senior Railcard.

Why not via Preston on Avanti?

Standard Premium would have been around £140 in total/First Class £277. [The cost of Advance Standard Premium Advance singles both ways was almost the same as him buying Standard Class tickets and upgrading to SP on the train both ways. Similarly the cost of buying First Class Advances would have been almost the same as him buying a First Off Peak Return. Also going via Manchester wasn't much cheaper either.

I've found that Avanti's First Class fares are almost always far more expensive compared to LNER for similar distances, even when their standard class equivalents are cheaper.

 

[jfollows]

I use SP on advance tickets Wilmslow-London. First is too expensive, sometimes too crowded, and often unreliable. So I’d rather take my own food than rely on the sketchy service in First. I used to use First until the early days of Avanti, but not any more. I don’t bother with SP on the day, though.
I’ve also used SP Crewe-Edinburgh and return, when in the past I’d have used First.

 

[VT 390]

I've found that Avanti's First Class fares are almost always far more expensive compared to LNER for similar distances, even when their standard class equivalents are cheaper.

Not that entirely justifies it but there are almost double the number of first class on a 9 carriage LNER Azuma (class 800/class 801) than on an Avanti class 390 Pendolino and on many Avanti services first class is decently filled, although they could better use advances to fill services which are usually quieter as LNER are generally better at this in first class.

I also find the quality of the first class service is often better (and more consistent), at least on weekdays, on Avanti compared to LNER.

 

[pnepaul]

Today I was on the 13.33 Glasgow to Milton Keynes as far as Carlisle. I was surprised to learn that Coach J was also Standard Premium. I didn't do the upgrade as I was the sole occupant of coach G

 

[VT 390]

Today I was on the 13.33 Glasgow to Milton Keynes as far as Carlisle. I was surprised to learn that Coach J was also Standard Premium. I didn't do the upgrade as I was the sole occupant of coach G lol.

That is quite unusual as on weekdays J is normally first class.
On Weekends and Bank Holidays G and J are Standard Premium with K being the only first class carriage.
Maybe its to do with the amended services this week with London Euston being closed for all West Coast Main Line services so they may be expecting fewer first class passengers?

 

[voyagerdude220]

It would be good if Avanti advertised which carriages on Pendolino formed services are SP and First, particularly on Fridays when a small number are 100% First Class with no SP offered.

 

[sh24]

It would be good if Avanti advertised which carriages on Pendolino formed services are SP and First, particularly on Fridays when a small number are 100% First Class with no SP offered.

it would. I understand there are limitations with industry systems but on their own website it should be possible.

 

[Merle Haggard]

That is quite unusual as on weekdays J is normally first class.
On Weekends and Bank Holidays G and J are Standard Premium with K being the only first class carriage.
Maybe its to do with the amended services this week with London Euston being closed for all West Coast Main Line services so they may be expecting fewer first class passengers?

Probably is - I went to Stockport via Rugby yesterday and the Milton Keynes - Manchester and return services I used both had only K for First. At seat as well, two staff; but very quiet. Presumably to make at seat service more efficient rather than a pressure of space on SP, as the latter was also very quiet.

 

[Adam Williams]

It would be nice if Avanti actually communicated these changes. Got passengers complaining who booked in J for a weekday service (still marked as first class in RARS, of course), whose seat reservations were not changed - who then of course didn't receive any sort of First Class service.

They'll be entitled to compensation but it seems like most of these decisions are being made for operational convenience with next to no thought being given to how it affects the passenger.

The reservation system lets you swap equipment types and re-allocate passengers to different seats (i.e. ones that would actually receive first class catering) in the process - but this functionality wasn't used at all. There's also something called email that can be used to communicate with the people selling tickets for your services.

 

[Merle Haggard]

It would be nice if Avanti actually communicated these changes. Got passengers complaining who booked in J for a weekday service (still marked as first class in RARS, of course), whose seat reservations were not changed - who then of course didn't receive any sort of First Class service.

They'll be entitled to compensation but it seems like most of these decisions are being made for operational convenience with next to no thought being given to how it affects the passenger.

The reservation system lets you swap equipment types and re-allocate passengers to different seats (i.e. ones that would actually receive first class catering) in the process - but this functionality wasn't used at all. There's also something called email that can be used to communicate with the people selling tickets for your services.

To be fair you might have noticed in Coach J that the headrests said 'Standard Premium'. I avoid K usually, and hen I boarded Coach J that's what I noticed. But definitely no announcement before boarding.
But it is a problem with SP; for a while after it was introduced (and before G became standard class) the standard announcement (for 11 cars) at stations was 'un-reserved first class accommodation in Coach G', which was of course SP. I got caught like that once, but only once. And station describers still haven't worked out whether First in 805s is F or J - or which way round the train is, so there's areas for improvement...

 

[Adam Williams]

the headrests said 'Standard Premium'

That doesn't help when they've booked a seat and have a reasonable expectation they'll be able to use it!