Standard Anytime Return on VTWC at the weekend

[AJG3]

Decided to upgrade to 1st yesterday on the 1130 Birmingham New Street to Euston. I was travelling with a std anytime return. Offered to pay an upgrade, but the conductor said that that type of ticket was valid in 1st on VTWC at the weekend. It's the first I knew of it. Has anyone else stumbled across this?

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[crehld]

Yes - this has been policy for some time how, although it's not vigorously advertised.

As stated on the National Rail Enquiries website:

On weekends and Bank Holidays, upgrades to First Class on Virgin Trains is free of charge if holding a Standard Class Anytime ticket by approaching the Train Manager.

 

[Hadders]

I've used a Standard Class Anytime Return to travel in 1st at the weekend with no additional charge.

The key thing is to identify good value Anytime fares to make it worthwhile!

 

[All Line Rover]

This is a sensible, long-running policy, particularly as a Birmingham to Euston Standard Anytime Return (SOR) costs more than a Birmingham to Euston First Off-Peak Return.

 

[gray1404]

Correct, you can use an Anytime ticket in 1st on VT at the weekend. I know the policy says about approaching the Train Manager but it doesn't say when. Personally I've just sat down in 1st and had my ticket checked as normal. I guess something like "I understand you can use 1st class on an Anytime ticket at the weekend" would surface.

 

[brompton rail]

Though I don't think Virgin Trains EAST COAST will treat you the same, despite the quotes above saying Virgin Trains!

 

[AlterEgo]

Though I don't think Virgin Trains EAST COAST will treat you the same, despite the quotes above saying Virgin Trains!

The website clearly lists the upgrade under "Virgin Trains" - which is their name. VTEC has a separate section where the "upgrade for free" bit isn't repeated.

 

[gray1404]

Does the free STD Anytime upgrade 1st apply on VTEC as well.

 

[All Line Rover]

No...

 

[bangor-toad]

The key thing is to identify good value Anytime fares to make it worthwhile!

I use SailRail from Belfast to London or the South East two or three times a year. The anytime single is £53 which if you make sure you travel on a weekend works out to be stunning value.

Glasgow to Euston in 1st class for that price and a few moments to check with the train manager is marvellous! (OK, the coach from the ferry to Ayr is a bit of a drag and it does make the connecting trains seem a little less desirable but you can't have everything)
If I've got the time spare I always try to go this way rather than fly.


That this facility exists is not secret but it amazes me how little used it is. Ah well, from a selfish perspective - long may it be relatively discreet and continue!

Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[John @ home]

I use SailRail from Belfast to London or the South East two or three times a year. The anytime single is £53 which if you make sure you travel on a weekend works out to be stunning value.

We have previously discussed exactly which tickets qualify for the free Virgin Trains first class weekend upgrade. If I remember correctly, the consensus was that an Anytime Single (SOS) or Anytime Return (SOR) qualifies, but that an Anytime Day Single (SDS) or Anytime Day Return (SDR) does not.

This is relevant to a Belfast - London journey. The £53 single ticket is an Anytime Day Single (SDS) Belfast NI - London Terminals route + Cairnryan Stena, which would not qualify for an upgrade. The £106 return ticket is an Anytime Return (SOR) Belfast NI - London Terminals route + Cairnryan Stena, which undoubtedly is valid.

 

[Mag_seven]

Decided to upgrade to 1st yesterday on the 1130 Birmingham New Street to Euston. I was travelling with a std anytime return. Offered to pay an upgrade, but the conductor said that that type of ticket was valid in 1st on VTWC at the weekend. It's the first I knew of it. Has anyone else stumbled across this?

Thanks,

Andrew

Been discussed on this forum many times before:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67572

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94408

 

[yorkie]

And in our Fares Guide: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1185804&postcount=8

....Holders of Anytime Single/Return tickets can upgrade to First Class free of charge by approaching the Train Manager.

I bet most passengers don't know about it though.

 

[All Line Rover]

We have previously discussed exactly which tickets qualify for the free Virgin Trains first class weekend upgrade. If I remember correctly, the consensus was that an Anytime Single (SOS) or Anytime Return (SOR) qualifies, but that an Anytime Day Single (SDS) or Anytime Day Return (SDR) does not.

I've had it in writing from VTWC that SDS/SDR tickets qualify. The pre-'simplification' rules are irrelevant. An Anytime ticket is an Anytime ticket, regardless of whether it is open or day. VTWC have had plenty of time to explicitly exclude day tickets, but have not done so.

If VTWC were really intent on restricting this easement to very high value tickets, they would have restricted it to Anytime tickets to Milton Keynes Central and London Euston only. That they have not done so is, in my opinion, rather generous.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That this facility exists is not secret but it amazes me how little used it is. Ah well, from a selfish perspective - long may it be relatively discreet and continue!

In my experience it is relatively well used on the Chester to London route, though you are more likely to notice the easement being mentioned on this route seeing as passengers are seated closer together in the single first class carriage.

I would hope that Train Managers mention the easement to passengers they notice in standard class holding Anytime tickets.

 

[crehld]

I've had it in writing from VTWC that SDS/SDR tickets qualify. The pre-'simplification' rules are irrelevant. An Anytime ticket is an Anytime ticket, regardless of whether it is open or day. VTWC have had plenty of time to explicitly exclude day tickets, but have not done so.

If VTWC were really intent on restricting this easement to very high value tickets, they would have restricted it to Anytime tickets to Milton Keynes Central and London Euston only. That they have not done so is, in my opinion, rather generous.

Agreed. The policy, as listed on the National Rail Enquiries website, is unambiguous in stating the upgrade is available for free for those holding Standard Anytime tickets. No other qualifications exist as to whether such tickets should be open or day returns, or based on distance. So we should refrain from making such unfounded claims.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In my experience it is relatively well used on the Chester to London route, though you are more likely to notice the easement being mentioned on this route seeing as passengers are seated closer together in the single first class carriage.

I would hope that Train Managers mention the easement to passengers they notice in standard class holding Anytime tickets.

After a day out in Chester with Mrs crehld and baby crehld we were actively directed by on board staff to the first class carriage for the short journey back to Crewe as standard was rather full. We were asked if we held an anytime ticket, we showed our Anytime Day Returns to Crewe and were duly directed to first class without having to ask.

 

[roversfan2001]

So this would mean I could sit in first class for Preston to Lancaster on a Leyland to Morecambe SDR (Child £5.60) this Saturday? If so then (if food/drink is going round at that time) that's brilliant!

 

[voyagerdude220]

Yes indeed. (Apologies off topic to your question Roversfan2001) Several years ago, myself and three members of my family travelled from Preston to Carlisle using the route "Any Permitted" SORs, on a diverted Super Voyager service over the Settle and Carlisle route.

Luckily the train started at Preston, so we were able to very easily nab one of the two tables for four in coach E, despite not being able to reserve seats. We had a few hours in Carlisle before getting the same Super Voyager back to Preston.

It was a lot cheaper than buying CDRs route via Penrith (which would have been valid because of the diversion) and paying £15 each. We had no trouble with Train Managers wanting to charge us the upgrades. The only minor issue on the way back, was the CSA in the shop wanting to charge us for the tea/coffee, being unaware of the free upgrade policy, but she phoned the TM and all was well.

I once got asked for my ticket by a CSA upon leaving Carlisle (again a few years ago), on a diverted service to Preston, via Settle. It was a double Super Voyager. I sat in the front set in First Class, with a Standard anytime ticket on a Sunday afternoon. I was asked to leave First Class, which I refused to, as I had a valid ticket/it wasn't full. There was only one Train Manager on the train, who was in the rear set, so the CSA got in touch with them and the TM confirmed I was perfectly ok to be in First Class.

I've never had my ticket checked by a CSA before and it was also unusual to have at seat service on a Super Voyager train (in my experience but I know it does happen) on a Sunday. I questioned how I could upgrade using Weekend First, had I been holding a Standard Off Peak/Advance ticket, as the CSA didn't have the means to take payment for it.

 

[AlterEgo]

So this would mean I could sit in first class for Preston to Lancaster on a Leyland to Morecambe SDR (Child £5.60) this Saturday? If so then (if food/drink is going round at that time) that's brilliant!

I'd be surprised if you were served on such a short trip. They usually only go round a few times in the whole four hour journey between London and Glasgow.

 

[roversfan2001]

I'd be surprised if you were served on such a short trip. They usually only go round a few times in the whole four hour journey between London and Glasgow.

Would it be possible to go up to the shop and get served then? Or is that for real first class ticket holders/weekdays only?

 

[All Line Rover]

Would it be possible to go up to the shop and get served then? Or is that for real first class ticket holders/weekdays only?

No on a Pendolino, yes on a Voyager, but as voyagerdude220 mentions, CSAs (even first class lounge attendants) are less aware of the free upgrade than Train Managers, and you wouldn't want to (appear to) take the pi*s. It's nice enough to be able to take advantage of the more spacious accommodation.

Bear in mind that plenty of people who pay for the upgrade don't bother asking for refreshments. Hardly surprising considering what is provided! The majority of the time, the CSAs on the Voyagers say you aren't even entitled to a latte (even though you were entitled to as many lattes as you wanted at the first class lounge at Manchester/Liverpool/wherever, and will be entitled to as many more as you want at Euston).

 

[roversfan2001]

No on a Pendolino, yes on a Voyager, but as voyagerdude220 mentions, CSAs (even first class lounge attendants) are less aware of the free upgrade than Train Managers, and you wouldn't want to (appear to) take the pi*s. It's nice enough to be able to take advantage of the more spacious accommodation.

Bear in mind that plenty of people who pay for the upgrade don't bother asking for refreshments. Hardly surprising considering what is provided! The majority of the time, the CSAs on the Voyagers say you aren't even entitled to a latte (even though you were entitled to as many lattes as you wanted at the first class lounge at Manchester/Liverpool/wherever, and will be entitled to as many more as you want at Euston).

Ah right thanks, might be worth taking a print out of the relevant piece of information perhaps.

 

[AlterEgo]

Ah right thanks, might be worth taking a print out of the relevant piece of information perhaps.

I'd still expect an argument! CSAs have no clue about tickets. All they will want to see is that you have a First Class ticket, which in their eyes, you won't.

 

[roversfan2001]

Just an update, I went to the information desk at Preston for confirmation of the free upgrade to be told that this particular upgrade didn't exist and it would cost £20 to upgrade to First Class from Preston to Lancaster!

Isn't that £20 figure wrong on three levels?
1) Standard Anytime ticket on a Saturday.
2) Under 16 upgrade is £5 anyway.
3) Even the adult upgrade must be £10/£15.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was it Anytime *Day*? I believe the free upgrade doesn't apply to those.

The child upgrade of £5 is only for children accompanied by a paying adult, I think.

I think the £20 thing is the only error. But it would probably be cheaper just to excess the ticket anyway.

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[AlterEgo]

Was it Anytime *Day*? I believe the free upgrade doesn't apply to those.

The child upgrade of £5 is only for children accompanied by a paying adult, I think.

I think the £20 thing is the only error. But it would probably be cheaper just to excess the ticket anyway.

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Anytime Day tickets do qualify. See All Line Rover's earlier post. I can confirm I used to work for VT, am aware of his correspondence with VT at the time and that VT found in his favour.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just an update, I went to the information desk at Preston for confirmation of the free upgrade to be told that this particular upgrade didn't exist and it would cost £20 to upgrade to First Class from Preston to Lancaster!

Isn't that £20 figure wrong on three levels?
1) Standard Anytime ticket on a Saturday.
2) Under 16 upgrade is £5 anyway.
3) Even the adult upgrade must be £10/£15.

Why would you do this? Just get on the train!

 

[roversfan2001]

Anytime Day tickets do qualify. See All Line Rover's earlier post. I can confirm I used to work for VT, am aware of his correspondence with VT at the time and that VT found in his favour.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Why would you do this? Just get on the train!

I checked at the info desk because I like to be sure I know 100% I can do something before I do it.

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[All Line Rover]

The worst that can happen is being charged for a weekend upgrade. The £5 fee applies for any child ticket, whether the child is accompanied or not.

But I would not take the word of ticket office employees as gospel. (Nor would I do so with the RPIs at Euston!)

 

[AlterEgo]

I checked at the info desk because I like to be sure I know 100% I can do something before I do it.

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Virgin station staff are clueless. You'd have been better off doing palm reading.

Within this thread are clear public references from NRE and that's all you need. NRE is the definitive text.

 

[roversfan2001]

I pointed that out to this 'gentleman', who proceeded to tell me I was wrong and that the Virgin Trains website contained all the information required (I couldn't locate the free upgrade section on VT's website).

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[AlterEgo]

I pointed that out to this 'gentleman', who proceeded to tell me I was wrong and that the Virgin Trains website contained all the information required (I couldn't locate the free upgrade section on VT's website).

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That's just illustrated my point perfectly.