Standalone battery unit

[matacaster]

How about a small wagon with a corridor carrying batteries,battery charging circuitry, a pantograph and a powerful inverter which could be fitted into existing emus? This would provide power for such as windermere branch, which would charge up from Manchester via overhead and power non-electrified bit on batteries. Because it would be self contained, requiring only a physical connection to pantograph of emu + a little control circuitry, it ought to be affordable!?
Be kind!

 

[Ken H]

How about a small wagon with a corridor carrying batteries,battery charging circuitry, a pantograph and a powerful inverter which could be fitted into existing emus? This would provide power for such as windermere branch, which would charge up from Manchester via overhead and power non-electrified bit on batteries. Because it would be self contained, requiring only a physical connection to pantograph of emu + a little control circuitry, it ought to be affordable!?
Be kind!

wasnt that the plan for the XC voyagers?

 

[JamesT]

How about a small wagon with a corridor carrying batteries,battery charging circuitry, a pantograph and a powerful inverter which could be fitted into existing emus? This would provide power for such as windermere branch, which would charge up from Manchester via overhead and power non-electrified bit on batteries. Because it would be self contained, requiring only a physical connection to pantograph of emu + a little control circuitry, it ought to be affordable!?
Be kind!

I suspect the issue with anything like that is how would power get from this battery car into the EMU? AIUI each unit is fairly self-contained, so there's not an obvious point to 'plug in'.

 

[skyhigh]

requiring only a physical connection to pantograph of emu + a little control circuitry

Are you suggesting the battery would output 25kV AC connected to the pantograph of the EMU?

 

[JamesT]

wasnt that the plan for the XC voyagers?

“Project Thor” was going to add another complete carriage with seats etc. rather than a mini-wagon as suggested by the OP. As Voyagers don’t have a power bus running through the train, it’s not clear if the proposal would have powered only the new carriage or extensive reworking of the existing units.
Whatever the details, the DfT rejected it on cost grounds.

 

[matacaster]

Are you suggesting the battery would output 25kV AC connected to the pantograph of the EMU?

Yup!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Are you suggesting the battery would output 25kV AC connected to the pantograph of the EMU?

Yup!

I better reread my physics books.

 

[6Gman]

How about a small wagon with a corridor carrying batteries,battery charging circuitry, a pantograph and a powerful inverter which could be fitted into existing emus? This would provide power for such as windermere branch, which would charge up from Manchester via overhead and power non-electrified bit on batteries. Because it would be self contained, requiring only a physical connection to pantograph of emu + a little control circuitry, it ought to be affordable!?
Be kind!

Wouldn't such a "small wagon" create problems with maximum permitted speeds?

What would it "sit on" in terms of wheels/ bogies/ suspension?

 

[matacaster]

I better reread my physics books.

A good read I hear!

 

[randyrippley]

Yup!

Can you offer a source of AC batteries?

 

[swt_passenger]

Yup!

That’s grossly inefficient.

You‘d just connect the battery bank into the existing DC link that sits roughly in the middle of a modern AC EMU’s existing power and traction systems. The same place as they feed in the DC from the third rail if the EMU happens to be dual voltage.

 

[zwk500]

The only place this idea is suitable for is depots, and if you're doing it there you'd want it as a shunting vehicle (see the proposed class 12). If you want mainline running Battery EMUs, it will be no harder to put batteries under the EMU than to hook a separable vehicle into the control systems. You'd have dead length on the vehicle (Windermere platforms would not like this, for instance) and you'd need 2 cabs in the battery unit to be able to run it on whichever end of the MU it ended up on.
Interesting suggestion, but there are many better ways to skin this particular cat.

 

[matacaster]

Can you offer a source of AC batteries?

Inverter.

 

[tomuk]

The only place this idea is suitable for is depots, and if you're doing it there you'd want it as a shunting vehicle (see the proposed class 12). If you want mainline running Battery EMUs, it will be no harder to put batteries under the EMU than to hook a separable vehicle into the control systems. You'd have dead length on the vehicle (Windermere platforms would not like this, for instance) and you'd need 2 cabs in the battery unit to be able to run it on whichever end of the MU it ended up on.
Interesting suggestion, but there are many better ways to skin this particular cat.

Stadler Flirt

 

[zwk500]

Stadler Flirt

I thought the entire purpose of the OP's proposal was to avoid the need for replacing a fleet that still has life in it.

 

[tomuk]

I thought the entire purpose of the OP's proposal was to avoid the need for replacing a fleet that still has life in it.

You were taking about cabs and dead length. The battery car could be a small power module similar to the diesel module in the flirt.

 

[zwk500]

You were taking about cabs and dead length. The battery car could be a small power module similar to the diesel module in the flirt.

My understanding of the OPs post was originally that they were proposing a battery car that stayed at the limit of Electrification and charged up between runs. I have now reread that they are proposing something which stays with the unit the whole time, which indeed could be a small power module, but for existing max-length trains that may well be a problem (Say the module is c5m long, if you have 3x 4-car at 240m now 255m, they will no longer fit in a 12-car platform. For some lines that won't be a problem, but for others (e.g. Uckfield) it may well be. If you're going to the trouble of messing about with an additional vehicle, I doubt it'll be cheaper than just wiring batteries into the unit and mounting them under the solebar.
Are the new Northern EMUs designed to accept a new module in the unit formation or would they need substantial modification?

 

[skyhigh]

Are the new Northern EMUs designed to accept a new module in the unit formation or would they need substantial modification?

In the way described here, not in the slightest.

 

[SynthD]

It may be easier to do this on diesel loco hauled services, rather than DMUs. Loco - battery - carriages - battery - loco.

 

[zwk500]

It may be easier to do this on diesel loco hauled services, rather than DMUs. Loco - battery - carriages - battery - loco

If it's a diesel-electric, maybe. But then why not just put the batteries on the loco itself?