Stalybridge Station - 2 extra platforms

[The Planner]

Will this see the end of the signalbox. Could the removal of that allow tracks to be skewed so trains can move through at a brisk clip into both. I thought they would use it as an opportunity to change the station so that the turning out would occur at the Hudds end of the station rather than doing it on the Manchester end of the station.

Yes, the box goes. Too late for any changes now, what is planned is what is going to go in.

I am running off memory here, but will the existing bay take a 319?

Can't remember off the top of my head, but seeing as the new bay is 140m long if i recall then the exisiting bay should.

 

[table38]

Yes, the box goes.

I guess you mean this one... the one that says "Signal Box" on the side just in case of any doubt amongst we simple folk of Stalybridge

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Am I missing something here? I assumed that the new Castlefield Chord project would cause the removal of the First TPE North services (or those run by their succesors) from the Ardwick - Guide Bridge route, to that via Miles Platting junction and Ashton under Lyne.

Why then, is it deemed necessary to have Guide Bridge reinstated as a four-platform station?

 

[Nym]

More stoppers and more services to sheffeild, also, so that Manchester Piccadilly - Chinley - Matlock - Derby services can call there 2tph. Would need the 4 track into piccadilly back in place though.

IIRC there is also a plan afoot for the TPE services to call only at Vic - Hudds - Leeds with the Stalybridge and Dewsbry stops being filled by a new 2tph Piccadilly - Leeds semi fast service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

More stoppers and more services to sheffeild, also, so that Manchester Piccadilly - Chinley - Matlock - Derby services can call there 2tph. Would need the 4 track into piccadilly back in place though.

But surely the paths that are freed by the First TPE services not using the Ardwick to Guide Bridge section after the implementation of the Ordsall Chord project, would be sufficiant for the services via Chinley that you describe. The matter of path availability via Chinley should also be brought into this same equation.

I still remain to be convinced of the need of four-tracking as you describe in that area for the reasons that I have stated above.
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IIRC there is also a plan afoot for the TPE services to call only at Vic - Hudds - Leeds with the Stalybridge and Dewsbry stops being filled by a new 2tph Piccadilly - Leeds semi fast service.

If the Ordsall Chord project sees the First TPE services going Manchester Victoria - Miles Platting Junction - Ashton under Lyne - Stalybridge in their routing, are you then proposing the new 2tph Piccadilly - Leeds semi-fast services are sent via Guide Bridge? Will there not be a need for these services to go Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge - Dewsbury - Leeds, via the Ordsall Chord proposed route.

 

[bluenoxid]

But surely the paths that are freed by the First TPE services not using the Ardwick to Guide Bridge section after the implementation of the Ordsall Chord project, would be sufficiant for the services via Chinley that you describe. The matter of path availability via Chinley should also be brought into this same equation.

I still remain to be convinced of the need of four-tracking as you describe in that area for the reasons that I have stated above.
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If the Ordsall Chord project sees the First TPE services going Manchester Victoria - Miles Platting Junction - Ashton under Lyne - Stalybridge in their routing, are you then proposing the new 2tph Piccadilly - Leeds semi-fast services are sent via Guide Bridge? Will there not be a need for these services to go Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge - Dewsbury - Leeds, via the Ordsall Chord proposed route.

You need to look at the RUS.

the two services per hour between Manchester
Airport and destinations east of Leeds via
Manchester Piccadilly will run via Manchester
Piccadilly Platforms 13 and 14, the Ordsall Chord
and Manchester Victoria
l the hourly service between Liverpool and
destinations east of Leeds via Manchester
Piccadilly will be diverted via the Chat Moss
route and Manchester Victoria and will not call
at Manchester Piccadilly
l the hourly service from Manchester Piccadilly
to destinations east of Leeds to start at
Liverpool Lime Street and run via the Chat Moss
and Manchester Victoria and will not call at
Manchester Piccadilly
l two additional services running between
Manchester Piccadilly and Leeds, resulting in six
north cross-Pennine trains per hour

The RUS recommends Northern Way look at further work to accomodate these two paths.

What it does not say is whether both paths will be fast paths between Leeds and Man Picc. I would guess one will be and the other will be a stopping/semi fast service (particularly between Stalybridge and Hudds) if it can be accommodated. Stalybridge to Hudds is only one tph stopper if I remember right. It could pick up Batley and Dewsbury and during the peak hours they may even stop at more places.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The RUS recommends Northern Way look at further work to accomodate these two paths. What it does not say is whether both paths will be fast paths between Leeds and Man Picc. I would guess one will be and the other will be a stopping/semi fast service (particularly between Stalybridge and Hudds) if it can be accommodated. Stalybridge to Hudds is only one tph stopper if I remember right. It could pick up Batley and Dewsbury and during the peak hours they may even stop at more places.

I was aware of this. It was the comment of the poster to whom I made my responses, about four-tracking from Ardwick to Guide Bridge again, in the areas where this used to be the case, when the Ordsall Chord project will release all the TPE paths from that route.

It was not I who brought the matter of the 2tph Manchester - Leeds services into the discussion and my comments were based upon a lack of information of his route upon these services provided by the poster. I was somewhat worried that he wanted them to go via Guide Bridge in lieu of the vacated TPE paths and this is why I reminded him of what the Ordsall Chord project actually sets out to achieve. I have no opposing view of any of the proposals contained within the Northern Hub published documentation.

In your usual way, you bring light upon the unlightened, on matters in this region, for which I thank you for your input.

 

[bluenoxid]

I do agree with you about the 4 tracking from Guide Bridge towards Manchester is not really going to be required if (when) Ordsall Curve proceeds. 3 tph will be removed, so there are at least three paths there. In addition, if money can be spent on electrifying the stopping services, a lot of capacity could be released.

The best I could see for those who desire enhancement would be a third track for tidal flow of services.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....If the Ordsall Chord project sees the First TPE services going Manchester Victoria - Miles Platting Junction - Ashton under Lyne - Stalybridge in their routing, are you then proposing the new 2tph Piccadilly - Leeds semi-fast services are sent via Guide Bridge? Will there not be a need for these services to go Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge - Dewsbury - Leeds, via the Ordsall Chord proposed route.

IIRC (and I am willing to be corrected), part of the reason for sending TPE trains via Victoria is to remove conflicting moves across the station throat at Piccadilly, thus increasing capacity.

I must admit I'm not certain of the arrangements of the lines south of Piccadilly, but could it be that a new Piccadilly-Guide Bridge-Leeds service wouldn't have to cross the station throat?

 

[bluenoxid]

IIRC (and I am willing to be corrected), part of the reason for sending TPE trains via Victoria is to remove conflicting moves across the station throat at Piccadilly, thus increasing capacity.

I must admit I'm not certain of the arrangements of the lines south of Piccadilly, but could it be that a new Piccadilly-Guide Bridge-Leeds service wouldn't have to cross the station throat?

Yes. It would use the terminal platforms. The current arrangement requires the trains from Yorks-Man Air and Liverpool to cross the whole throat in their attempt to get to the right line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The RUS recommends Northern Way look at further work to accomodate these two paths. What it does not say is whether both paths will be fast paths between Leeds and Man Picc. I would guess one will be and the other will be a stopping/semi fast service (particularly between Stalybridge and Hudds) if it can be accommodated. Stalybridge to Hudds is only one tph stopper if I remember right. It could pick up Batley and Dewsbury and during the peak hours they may even stop at more places.

Can you confirm the route that these services are proposed to take, as stated in the RUS. I had supposed that these would take the Ordsall Chord route once established.

 

[bluenoxid]

I cannot guarantee that these trains would not run via the Ordsall Curve because the RUS does not state what approach these new services would use. However, it does not state that they will go to Manchester Victoria or travel via the Ordsall Curve so I would expect it to be safe to assume that they will go via Guide Bridge and into Manchester Picc using the existing arrangement and the terminal platforms.

 

[Viscount702]

I am new to the forum.

Can anyone confirm that the works to Stalybridge will begin and be completed next year including the two new Platforms.

Also would it be possible to post the new track layout once the work has been done to include the station and the track to the west where the Ashton and Guidebridge lines split.

Many thanks

 

[Freel07]

You need to look at the RUS.



The RUS recommends Northern Way look at further work to accomodate these two paths.

What it does not say is whether both paths will be fast paths between Leeds and Man Picc. I would guess one will be and the other will be a stopping/semi fast service (particularly between Stalybridge and Hudds) if it can be accommodated. Stalybridge to Hudds is only one tph stopper if I remember right. It could pick up Batley and Dewsbury and during the peak hours they may even stop at more places.

What it also doesn't say is that Ashton may well lose it's 2 trains an hour as the Huddersfield Manchester stopper could go to Piccadilly leaving only the Stalybridge Liverpool stoppers running through Ashton.

 

[Nym]

What it also doesn't say is that Ashton may well lose it's 2 trains an hour as the Huddersfield Manchester stopper could go to Piccadilly leaving only the Stalybridge Liverpool stoppers running through Ashton.

Boo hoo!

Ashton U Lyne passengers will need to change at Stalybridge, I don't see how this is going to be a problem...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Couldn't one of the diverted TPEs make a call at Ashton in leui of the lost service?

 

[Jonfun]

Boo hoo!

Ashton U Lyne passengers will need to change at Stalybridge, I don't see how this is going to be a problem...

Until you go the other way and realise then that the main town in the area's left with one train an hour where even with the 2tph it has today, people are often left behind due to there being physically no room left on the train.

TPE making a call at Ashton would be a logical way of restoring the lost train, and as their trains have a significantly higher capacity it would also aid the capacity issues that are seen.

 

[Viscount702]

If two of the current services are transferred to Piccadilly I think there is an intention to bring Ashton onto TPE so some TPE trains will stop there. The detail is however lacking

 

[Nym]

Or it could just be the case that with extra bays at Stalybridge that a lot of services will be pushed through Victoria and on to Stalybridge to save terminating on through platforms at Victoria.

eg. If everything from Wigan goes onward to Stalybridge thats a good 4tph calling at Ashton U Lyne.

 

[Viscount702]

I think this is something which will happen regardless of any TPE stops.

There is talk of the wires being extended to Stalybridge but not in the short term and therefore only routes using DMU will be involved ie Wigan as you suggest although some Wigan services are intended to go I think to Stockport.

At present the only things which are certain as far as I am aware are

1. Liverpool Manchester Electrification. this will serve both Piccadilly and Victoria. Includes electrifying all 6 Platforms at Victoria along with some improvements

2. Manchester Preston Blackpool electrification

3 Ordsall curve which includes track layout changes at Victoria and speed improvement between Victoria and Stalybridge.

This isn't everything in the Northern Hub.

As a result no one seems to be certain what improvements will happen on certain lines other than in general terms

 

[WatcherZero]

I think timescales best described as:
Electrification, now till 2016 - committed
Ordsall Chord (aka accelerated Hub works), 2014-2016 - committed
Electrification to Stalybridge 2016? - uncommited but being studied as an optional extra to Ordsall Chord acceleration
Rest of Hub 2014-2019 - uncommited but near 100% certainty of being funded, Piccadilly platforms may start as soon as 2014 and finish by 2016, rest of hub probably near 2019.

 

[Freel07]

Boo hoo!

Ashton U Lyne passengers will need to change at Stalybridge, I don't see how this is going to be a problem...

Quite a problem for Ashton passengers who according to you would need to travel east to Stalybridge to get to Manchester!! A quick geography check will show why its a problem.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Quite a problem for Ashton passengers who according to you would need to travel east to Stalybridge to get to Manchester!! A quick geography check will show why its a problem.

Ashton under Lyne is seen by TfGM as the major transport hub for the Tameside region. There are hopes for a major co-ordination of bus, Metrolink and heavy rail once the Metrolink extension to Ashton under Lyne is completed.

 

[9K43]

Just by Stalybridge Signal Box is Atchem sidings, accessed by the train proceeding towards Guide Bridge. There is a sub which comes off so the train can be propelled into these sidings. You have to be caefull when you enter these sidings as there is not much room between the buffers and the blocks, when the train is placed in clear.
The train which uses the siding is 6E 72 from Immingham.
As for the goods line in the station you have to contact the SB to inform the bobby that the train is in clear, complete with a tail lamp.
This job was the best on BR, sign on at 0430hrs and going home at 0900hrs

 

[DiscoSteve]

Ashton under Lyne is seen by TfGM as the major transport hub for the Tameside region.

But sadly for you Ashtonites, its in a restrictive location connectivity wise as compared to Stalybridge.

 

[yorksrob]

Or it could just be the case that with extra bays at Stalybridge that a lot of services will be pushed through Victoria and on to Stalybridge to save terminating on through platforms at Victoria.

eg. If everything from Wigan goes onward to Stalybridge thats a good 4tph calling at Ashton U Lyne.

Personally I think that they could do with pushing at least one of these through to Rochdale in the evenings. The crowding I have experienced on these services on Saturdays in particular has been horrendous (people being left behind because you can't push any more on).

 

[Nym]

If there where terminating platforms built at Rochdale then it could take an extra 4tph stopping all stations and the other service be speeded up to call only at Rochdale before other stations.

Rochdale could take 4tph of Diesels and Stalybridge the electrics, some others should just park up in sidings on the far side of Victoria...

 

[yorksrob]

I suppose Rochdale does at least have that long turnback siding (formerly known as the Oldham loop !).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But sadly for you Ashtonites, its in a restrictive location connectivity wise as compared to Stalybridge.

Have you ever compared the sizes of Stalybridge Bus Station and Ashton under Lyne bus station? At least the Metrolink is planned to go to Ashton under Lyne as the eventual terminal stop on the East Manchester Line.
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I suppose Rochdale does at least have that long turnback siding (formerly known as the Oldham loop !).

Not any more, alas :roll:
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If there where terminating platforms built at Rochdale then it could take an extra 4tph stopping all stations and the other service be speeded up to call only at Rochdale before other stations.

At one time, Rochdale had four through platforms, two west-facing bay platforms and two east-facing bay platforms. Of these four bay platforms, only one east-facing bay platform remains, which was used until the demise of the Manchester Victoria - Oldham Mumps - Shaw - Rochdale line, by the local loop-line terminal services to Rochdale.

Has anyone any idea if the current track layout in the approaches to Rochdale station from the Castleton direction, plus the existing platform layout, will allow for a Manchester facing bay platform to be constructed.

 

[Nym]

Length wise, there is space for a 4x20m bay, but they'd be narrow platforms, and I think that would be a problem for DDA, as would putting the old through platforms back, if you slew the Western approaches out a bit you could fit two bays in and a wide enough platform.

One reasonable way perhaps could be to have additional platforms a'la Platform 2 at Bolton, Extend it down, add in the two outermost lines again, extend the platform length up to the bridge, the inner two tracks terminating 4x23m further up the platform then the current platforms starting.

Or, put the northern most track back in, make that the eastbound through, same for the westbound if needed, push the central two tracks back next to eachother to make a Y shaped bay (the same as the other end) in the centre, and theres proberbly space for 6x23m platforms.

The former option takes the least trackwork through, and if 3x23m or 4x23m is plenty, wouldn't require any work at the bridges, just a new crossover to the west and a set of points for each platform (a'la BON Pt2)