Killingworth
Established Member
It cuts out congestion that often occurs on roads around Meadowhall and the M1.
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Stagecoach Yorkshire and Chesterfield
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There was an argument that the X17 took a different route to Meadowhall than other services, and thus addressed a market need. As you allude, it's now questionable how much that need is met.
One downside of Brightside Lane is that in the peaks (Morning peak seems worst) it's a car-park in-bound. I've not noticed such a delay outbound, although it can be faster to sling-shot Brightside Roundabout in the morning. So, at peak times the proposed route might be more consistent, especially with the benefit of the bus gate.
Out of the peaks the current route is more useful to more people, but I don't suppose they want to vary the route based on time of day as that can cause confusion.
But the X17 has a couple of journeys which omit Kelstedge to serve Matlock Farm Park and the proposed revisions in Walton will have alternate Monday to Saturday journeys diverting off Matlock Road/Whitecotes Lane to serve a couple of stops on Hunloke Avenue.
All variants to have the same route number - so possible confusion….!
m79900
Member
The X17's getting a bit ridiculous at this point so how about this:
Matlock-Barnsley X17
Via Matlock Farm Park X17a
Wirksworth-Sheffield X18
Matlock-Barnsley X17
Via Matlock Farm Park X17a
Wirksworth-Sheffield X18
The thing I keep wondering is whether both Matlock to Chesterfield services need to be X17. Could it split in to say Wirksworth to Chesterfield Royal Hospital via Walton / Boythorpe as the 17 (with 17a diversions via Matlock Farm Park) and the X17 being Matlock to Sheffield. You could then have an X18 Chesterfield to Barnsley and possibly extend the existing X19 Doncaster to Barnsley to Sheffield to give a half-hourly frequency between Barnsley and Sheffield.
If they wanted to improve the Chesterfield to Sheffield provision (*) then it would be fairly easy to offset the X17 and X18 to all say an X16 Clay Cross to Sheffield or Meadowhall to be added, giving a bus every 20 minutes.
(*) if Derby to Nottingham on the Red Arrow and Nottingham to Mansfield on the Pronto can support much higher frequencies then surely the Chesterfield to Sheffield route could support at least 3x hourly if not more.
Hyebone
Member
Changes are going to have to be made when the route gets electrified. EVs with current technology will not be able to commit to a full day's service without a recharge. (@mk1979 might be able to offer some insight)
The number X18 has been used in recent times, see https://bustimes.org/registrations/PC1118599/28
I can quite imagine a direct service from Clay Cross to Chesterfield (and onwards) would be quite popular. The Comet doesn't quite cut it as it doesn't interwork with the rest of the Chesterfield bus network; being Trentbarton and therefore not being part of any Chesterfield network tickets (issued by Stagecoach)
I've said this for years, the amount of "full n' standing" X17s I've seen/travelled on is ridiculous. (The X17 is the only Stonegravels route that has a "bus full" destination board on the HELEN file)
Stonegravels have the Gold liveried vehicles to do it, I'm curious to see how this route lives on; it's a personal favourite of mine.
I recall this being discussed a while back. I think a lot comes down to how realistic the ranges manufacturers quote are. In theory it is possible, but I'm with you that it's likely buses will have to be charged at some point during the day.
Has anything been said as to what charging provision is being made? I recall reading the first EVs are actually due fairly soon - I think December was mentioned. Have they started installing chargers at Stonegravels? Unless ones are also installed at Matlock and Barnsley then the only obvious location to charge would be Sheffield Interchange, assuming the ones currently used by the Sheffield Connect would be available. This would allow the Wirksworth to Sheffield runs to grab an hour of charge with one extra bus on the rotation. The Matlock to Barnsley ones currently would need the bus swapping out somewhere.
Only ever as a college service I believe? Although a through Buxton to Chesterfield and Sheffield service via this route would be an interesting one to trial.
I'm actually surprised the X1 wasn't tried again as it filled a few gaps in current provision. For example, getting to the East Midlands outlet. It could have been extended to Sheffield eventually to fill the gap, but like the current Matlock to Barnsley run is probably a bit on the long side to reliably fit in with a frequent service pattern.
I'm surprised the peak hours extras haven't made a comeback. Indeed leaving Sheffield in the peaks the frequency is worse than half-hourly due to the step-backs necessary due to the traffic. Yes the reduced number of commuters due to home working will have had some impact, but on those runs you were always competing with the pensioners on their ENCTS coming back from a day in town.
I'd love them to keep the Gold livery when the EVs come, but I rather fear that won't be the case. Gold is just about the only current livery of any major operator that says class and quality. It's such a shame to lose it.
m79900
Member
Going back about 10 years, Stagecoach ran an X18 college service from Sheffield to Wirksworth, which is why I suggested it.
www.flickr.com
Operating between Wirksworth and Sheffield given service number X17/X18 effective from 26-Oct-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.
(Copied from Bustimes)
You're all mentioning EVs on the route, is this planned in the immediate future?
Stagecoach Yorkshire 33297 Matlock
Stagecoach Chesterfield 33297 N199FYJ Dennis Dart SLF Alexander ALX200 B37F arriving in Matlock on route X18 from Chesterfield to Wirksworth on 12 May 2015. Originally a Dennis demonstrator with Plaxton body in 1996, it was exported as a chassis to Cape Town and rebodied with an Alexander kit by...
www.flickr.com
- Received29 Aug 14
- Effective26 Oct 14
- Registered
Operating between Wirksworth and Sheffield given service number X17/X18 effective from 26-Oct-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.
(Copied from Bustimes)
You're all mentioning EVs on the route, is this planned in the immediate future?
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Yes, you are correct, I'd completely forgotten about that. The number was later re-used for the Buxton runs.
I think I'd question more whether the Wirksworth buses need to run through to Sheffield, or whether having this as a normal stopping service extended to the Hospital would work better. This section is not limited stop anyway, a direct link to the main local hospital would be beneficial, it could be re-routed through Walton to expand the area served, and it looks like it would nicely fit in to a 3 bus pattern with 10-15 minutes recovery at each end.
At certain times (weekends especially) the through X17s can be badly delayed by traffic in Sheffield and north of Chesterfield. Running this section separately would at least improve the chances of reliable running.
The latest service changes also seem to be proposing 2x hourly 'shuttle' services between the town centre and the Hospital - I'd think these would be better run as extensions of other services to give through links.
Stagecoach bid for and were give funding in ZEBRA2 for 50-odd buses for Chesterfield depot. I think the only services not to be converted are the council contracts and the 90 (due to a low bridge on the route). I'd seen posted somewhere the first E400EVs are due towards the end of this year. I'd imagine they are more likely to go on local services initially to give them time to bed in, but the X17 is going electric.
Hyebone
Member
As per the ZEBRA2 bid Derbyshire County Council put in, the X17 was mentioned as one of the routes to be electrified.
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Where have you seen this? (Not having a go, I am just curious and would like more information
)I'm sure it was either on here, or on the South Yorkshire Transport Forum, but I can't locate it with a quick search. If I find it I'll update the thread, otherwise take it with a pinch of salt in case my memory is playing up!Where have you seen this? (Not having a go, I am just curious and would like more information
syjunkie
Member
| Movements noted recently 15661 ecclesfield to chesterfield 26030 & 26033 rawmarsh to barnsley 27232-27237 barnsley to ecclesfield 27231 chesterfield to ecclesfield 27187/8 & 27206 barnsley to chesterfield 27825 barnsley to ecclesfield 36177/8 ecclesfield to chesterfield 36179/180 & 36181 barnsley to chesterfield 28675/77/78 rawmarsh to barnsley 36187/88 ecclesfield to rawmarsh 36458 rawmarsh to ecclesfield 36990 rawmarsh to chesterfield 37606/612/613 chesterfield to barnsley |
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Stagecoach yorkshire holbrook depot currently have an mcv evora on loan from ferrymill motors to cover whilst 36994 and 36997 get repaired
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syjunkie
Member
15660 has been repainted into navy blue without the roundels
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Heard rawmarsh have a Mercedes-Benz ecitaro on loan for 2 weeks to trial/compare to the yutongs. Registration BF24 AHC
Can anyone confirm or deny this and what routes would it be used on?
Also saw that 36414 was tracking after a long time, was it a ticket machine swap or the actual vehicle as I had noticed it been worked on at rawmarsh depot?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Heard rawmarsh have a Mercedes-Benz ecitaro on loan for 2 weeks to trial/compare to the yutongs. Registration BF24 AHC
Can anyone confirm or deny this and what routes would it be used on?
Also saw that 36414 was tracking after a long time, was it a ticket machine swap or the actual vehicle as I had noticed it been worked on at rawmarsh depot?
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Stagecoach has also taken over services 140 (Alfreton-Crich-Matlock), 141 (Ripley-Crich-Matlock) and 142 (Alfreton-Crich-Nether Heage/Belper) from Derbyshire Community Transport as of the end of August. Those routes have been run by Stagecoach in the past but not for a few years.Looking at those Chesterfield changes I was just about to say the suburb of Ashgate would be left without any bus services with the withdrawal of the no5, which is shocking in all fairness.
However, having just looked on Derbyshire Councils forthcoming changes it appears Hulleys are consolidating the 84 and 170 yet again whilst introducing a new no6 for Ashgate, Holme Hall onwards to Wadshelf from 2 September.
Forthcoming changes to bus services - Derbyshire County Council
www.derbyshire.gov.uk
There's also a new service 143/143a Matlock-Brackenfield-Wessington-Alfreton-South Normanton. I'm not aware of that service having existed before, although the old 150 Matlock-Brackenfield-Wessington-Alfreton service (latterly also run by Derbyshire Community Transport as I recall) seems to have disappeared so I presume the 143/143a is a replacement for the 150. The 143/143a goes via South Wingfield whereas the 150 used to go straight from Wessington to Alfreton via Oakerthorpe, bypassing South Wingfield.
m79900
Member
The 143/143a have been around for a while now, about a year I think?
I'm pretty sure when Derbyshire Community Transport took over these were introduced. Also pretty sure Stagecoach didn't make any major alternations when they initially took the contract on as it was a short notice tender. It is hinted changes might be coming - certainly the Matlock area buses could be better integrated than they currently are.
Out of interest, when did Stagecoach last run these services? I can only recall Littles and TM running them, but they are a bit away from my area.
I thought the 150 still existed until the recent takeover of those routes by Stagecoach, so maybe the 143/143a and 150 existed concurrently for a short while.
My guess would be about 15 years ago. As I recall it was Stagecoach in about the mid to late 2000s, and possibly already in the early 2000s (with the now withdrawn Sunday service 140 being run by TrentBarton for a time in about 2010, then TM Travel), then Yourbus, then Littles, then Derbyshire Community Transport and now Stagecoach again.
m79900
Member
I think there's potential in the future to expand the network of Stagecoach services around Matlock, with a focus on linking to the X17. Maybe take over the 110/111, a Wirksworth-Alfreton/Ripley via Longway Bank and Crich route, make it seem like an intergrated and fairly extensive network. There's villages like Kirk Ireton which would benefit from any service, and could intergrate in.
I can't find anything concrete, but I believe they were revised and renumbered at some point. This school bus plan from 2023 mentions the 143 was the 150. The wayback machine unfortunately hasn't captured the relevant Derbyshire service changes pages.
It looks like Hulleys are about the only local operator not to have had a crack at some point. The service isn't helped by long term road closures in the area, but you've got to wonder if a more dedicated DRT for the area wouldn't offer better value for money, with just the odd scheduled service for schools and workers.
(As an aside, for a time it appeared that the TM service was operated on their behalf by Notts and Derbys. Not sure if it was just the bus or also the driver on loan.)
ChrisC
Established Member
Stagecoach taking over these services from Derbyshire Community Transport all seemed to be organised at quite short notice . Although the Matlock end of the routes fit in with Stagecoach Chesterfield, the Alfreton and Ripley areas is very much Stagecoach Mansfield territory. Stagecoach Mansfield operate a number of local services around Alfreton/Ripley plus the hourly number 1 from Mansfield to Alfreton. Alfreton is some distance from Chesterfield and since Hulleys took over the 55 between Chesterfield and Alfreton Stagecoach Chesterfield have not had any routes in the Alfreton area.
I can see that at the Matlock end the routes could be integrated with some existing services but if Stagecoach are keep these routes long term would they be better integrated at the Alfreton end and run by Stagecoach in Mansfield? Perhaps even a Mansfield-Alfreton-Matlock service could work. I suppose the main problem here is crossing the border between Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire but both counties are now both part of the larger area with the East Midlands Mayor.
py_megapixel
Established Member
There's an MCV Evora on the 6 this morning. Seems to be dealer spec with Stagecoach logos applied but no full livery. Is this a demonstrator vehicle?
syjunkie
Member
Covering for 36997 I believe. Its come from ferrymill motors on loan
There was a time when Stagecoach didn't seem to want to bother with this sort of service. That said, the council are paying and if no-one else has the capacity to bid then I guess it's a fairly safe contract to go for.
I believe Hulleys made proposals for improving the 110/111 which weren't taken up. I think these included a direct bus from Ashbourne which seems like a sensible option. From memory, during Covid they operated as a single service which served all villages, rather than two alternating, and it didn't add a whole lot to the journey time. Going back to that and running a direct, fast but would seem a good option. (Maybe extend the 'other' X17 to Ashbourne?) I'm also surprised they don't interwork with the 172, although that also could do with some love as the 2h20 frequency doesn't make it that attractive.
I do think back to a plan Derbyshire County Council put out when first bidding for BSIP money where their aim was to set up bus corridors and have anything off them dealt with by DRT. While their version was quite extreme, I do wonder if something similar would offer better value for money here. Link the major towns by frequent buses and set up a depot in Matlock itself for a DRT-style operation. Van-based buses probably suit these routes better and, other than at school times, capacity won't be an issue. Running E200s from remote depots can't be offering the most economical way to serve these communities and that in itself may be harming provision across the wider county as the money saved could be spent on improving services elsewhere.
It doesn't even necessarily have to be a DRT. If 'interchange' locations could be identified with decent shelter provision made then villages could be connected with main road routes and save the time to duplicate those routes in to the bigger towns. Changing is always a bone of contention, but if you could double provision for smaller villages at the expense of a change I think it would be a positive move.
py_megapixel
Established Member
I see. How long has it been here? Don't think I've seen it before
Hyebone
Member
Just under 2 weeks ish.
My photo attached. (Image shows Ferrymill Motors' Fm48 on loan to Stagecoach Yorkshire. SJ24 HWX, Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora)
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In my opinion, the X17 is stretched far enough. For something like this to be viable, they'd surely have to split the route. With EVs coming into play in the not too distant future, the future of the route is up in the air as it stands.
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Fully agree. Most Saturdays it just falls apart. I'm surprised they haven't proposed (more significant) changes this time around to be honest. I'm also not sure the Chesterfield to Matlock section needs 2x X buses an hour.
My proposal was to have Wirksworth to the Royal Hospital as a stand-alone 17 then revert the X17 to Matlock to Sheffield, possibly extended to Meadowhall. I also think there is scope to up the frequency on the 'core' Chesterfield to Sheffield section, possibly by introducing new variants such as Bolsover to Sheffield and Clay Cross to Sheffield.
Not sure there is much business for buses in Kirk Ireton with a population of about 500, there is, however, a fabulous pub - The Barley Mow, however, it opens during the daytime at weekends!
Here is BF24 AHC seen today on 114 in Rotherham
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Killingworth
Established Member
Saw the Peak Sightseer outward bound from Sheffield yesterday morning in light drizzle, empty.
Later the skies cleared and we took the train to Hope (slightly late) which connected well with the buses running in both directions. We opted for Mam Tor in sunshine. Inevitably very few use the lower deck. Our bus had a full top deck between Castleton and Hathersage with a few below. It was a good experience clearly being enjoyed by all aboard.
Today has been varying degrees of wet! There may have been a few masochists using the buses, there are always walkers whatever the weather.
Sadly our intended return to Sheffield on T M Travel's 218 failed, another story. We opted for the last Sightseer's return journey into Sheffield from Baslow. A shame Stagecoach don't run the 218.
Later the skies cleared and we took the train to Hope (slightly late) which connected well with the buses running in both directions. We opted for Mam Tor in sunshine. Inevitably very few use the lower deck. Our bus had a full top deck between Castleton and Hathersage with a few below. It was a good experience clearly being enjoyed by all aboard.
Today has been varying degrees of wet! There may have been a few masochists using the buses, there are always walkers whatever the weather.
Sadly our intended return to Sheffield on T M Travel's 218 failed, another story. We opted for the last Sightseer's return journey into Sheffield from Baslow. A shame Stagecoach don't run the 218.
Hyebone
Member
Chesterfield has received several loan vehicles to cover vehicles off the road:
E400MMC 11716
E200MMC 26021, 26031, 26086(gone back already), 26087 and 37613(Which reportedly went to cummins for a new engine)
11120 (E400MMC) is reportedly running a 90 service. For those who don't know, the 90 goes under a very low bridge in Barrow Hill (10ft 3in). This is a mistrack, I will try and find out what it is shortly
E400MMC 11716
E200MMC 26021, 26031, 26086(gone back already), 26087 and 37613(Which reportedly went to cummins for a new engine)
11120 (E400MMC) is reportedly running a 90 service. For those who don't know, the 90 goes under a very low bridge in Barrow Hill (10ft 3in). This is a mistrack, I will try and find out what it is shortly