Stagecoach South & South East

[alex397]

Margate Pride rather disrupted Thanet's bus services today, with several road closures (some of which were implemented rather earlier than agreed). The open top 69 was running with delays of almost an hour at one point.

On the subject of dual door buses, an awful lot of infrastructure would have to be altered to accommodate the second door at Thanet's bus stops. More pertinently, it not only loses seats on board, but would also squeeze the space available for pushchairs. It's not uncommon for The Loop to have three on board simultaneously. Better really to try and tackle reliability, so that buses don't become so crowded in the first place.

Some good points raised. Margate Pride would have impacted this, though I have experienced similar issues when there haven’t been major events on.
I disagree with the topic of double doors though. The Loop is almost London-like with the frequent stops and movement of passengers. It’s incredibly awkward getting passengers on/off with a single door on such routes. While the bus infrastructure is rather poor in Thanet, as is frustratingly typical in the UK, there are many stops which would be fine with double doors.
(Though I do get the point about pushchairs though, the double door arrangement is more awkward for them)
I’ve been on various busy routes on the continent with standing loads only, and I find it’s much less stressful having double doors rather than the single door arrangement. There is better space for standing passengers.
I really don’t understand why more effort can’t be made in improving bus infrastructure, especially for high profile routes such as the Loop. They do it on the continent, and even other parts of the UK. I don’t hold much hope with KCC improving public transport though.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

There seems to be an influx of ex Stagecoach Midlands E200MMCs arriving at Stagecoach South.

12 are due for Guildford to replace all 12 E300s at the depot, primarily for use on Route 34

As a novice in today's bus matters, I presume the attached is one of these E200MMC's? If so, from a layman's point of view, I find them the best (comfort/ride etc) that have operated on the 34 for years, having been an occasional user of. The days of me being specifically 'interested' in the route as such, stemming from the days of LCBS Swift (SM) operation when it was a combination of 463/436 as best as I recall?

Edit: attached is 26212.

 

[Murray J]

As a novice in today's bus matters, I presume the attached is one of these E200MMC's? If so, from a layman's point of view, I find them the best (comfort/ride etc) that have operated on the 34 for years, having been an occasional user of. The days of me being specifically 'interested' in the route as such, stemming from the days of LCBS Swift (SM) operation when it was a combination of 463/436 as best as I recall?

Edit: attached is 26212.

Yes that's one of them, and you're right they're very comfy inside. I like the 10-reg E300s they replaced on the route as they have a good ride quality to them and are mostly pretty fast but the seats are certainly a downgrade.

 

[stadler]

Two recent updates on Stagecoach South and Stagecoach South East bus services.

Stagecoach are renaming the LOOP in Eastbourne to LINK from 21st of September. I am not sure why. My only guess is perhaps they are trying to get rid of the duplication of route numbers. Stagecoach South East have always had two LOOP routes. One in Eastbourne and then one in the Margate and Ramsgate area.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

I remember last year they renumbered most of the Hastings bus network by adding a "3" to the front. So for example "22" became "322" and "23" became "323" etc. I suspect this may have been to get rid of the duplication of their Hastings routes with their Canterbury area ones. So perhaps renaming LOOP to LINK is also for this reason.

Stagecoach are running the 700/N700 as a 24/7 route starting from the 31st of August. So it will be hourly all night long on seven nights a week. In both directions on all seven nights there will no longer be more than an hour gap between buses. So quite an impressive upgrade.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

This joins the B&H operated 1/N1 5/N5 7/N7 25/N25 to make the fifth full 24/7 service in the Brighton area. But unfortunately Stagecoach charge a rip off £5.00 flat fare on the N700 route. B&H operate their night bus routes on the same fares as the day routes and you can use day tickets and ENCTS passes on them. So it is a shame Stagecoach can not do the same.

Also the 700 between Chichester and Bognor Regis was made a 24/7 route a couple months ago but they charge the same fares and accept the same tickets all night long. So why does the Brighton to Worthing section not do the same. It is very strange.

 

[Class450/4DES]

Further to post #806 above, it has also now been made public that Hampshire County Council contracted routes 46 (Winchester to North Baddlesley) and 61 (Winchester to Eastleigh) will cease operation at the end of this month with no replacement.


Source: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-05/08/2025-16:34:18:966

The commercial 9 which runs three ‘between-schools’ circulars of otherwise unserved parts of Alton is also being cancelled by Stagecoach, however local independent Cresta Coaches will operate a replacement to the same times but on Tuesdays and Thursdays only. I believe this will operate as route 209 and may be receiving some funding until the end of the year, so its longer term future is unclear.


Source: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/servi...rticle?SituationId=ID-29/04/2025-11:28:55:572

HCC are a joke. They got funding for buses yet routes are still being withdrawn. I think I did see a rumour Stagecoach running the 61 as their own but it's a rumour and I am unsure if that's true.

I hope devolution will bring bus improvements.

 

[Park47515]

Two recent updates on Stagecoach South and Stagecoach South East bus services.

Stagecoach are renaming the LOOP in Eastbourne to LINK from 21st of September. I am not sure why. My only guess is perhaps they are trying to get rid of the duplication of route numbers. Stagecoach South East have always had two LOOP routes. One in Eastbourne and then one in the Margate and Ramsgate area.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

I remember last year they renumbered most of the Hastings bus network by adding a "3" to the front. So for example "22" became "322" and "23" became "323" etc. I suspect this may have been to get rid of the duplication of their Hastings routes with their Canterbury area ones. So perhaps renaming LOOP to LINK is also for this reason.

Stagecoach are running the 700/N700 as a 24/7 route starting from the 31st of August. So it will be hourly all night long on seven nights a week. In both directions on all seven nights there will no longer be more than an hour gap between buses. So quite an impressive upgrade.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

This joins the B&H operated 1/N1 5/N5 7/N7 25/N25 to make the fifth full 24/7 service in the Brighton area. But unfortunately Stagecoach charge a rip off £5.00 flat fare on the N700 route. B&H operate their night bus routes on the same fares as the day routes and you can use day tickets and ENCTS passes on them. So it is a shame Stagecoach can not do the same.

Also the 700 between Chichester and Bognor Regis was made a 24/7 route a couple months ago but they charge the same fares and accept the same tickets all night long. So why does the Brighton to Worthing section not do the same. It is very strange.

I did wonder if it was BSIP funding related, but you'd assume it was mostly funded by WSCC along with the Chichester one.
It's very odd

 

[James H]

Stagecoach are running the 700/N700 as a 24/7 route starting from the 31st of August. So it will be hourly all night long on seven nights a week. In both directions on all seven nights there will no longer be more than an hour gap between buses. So quite an impressive upgrade.

This year seems to be the year of the post-covid nightbus revival, with Go South Coast expanding night services to run all week long in Southampton and Bournemouth/Poole in the next couple of months

 

[Flange Squeal]

Stagecoach are renaming the LOOP in Eastbourne to LINK from 21st of September. I am not sure why. My only guess is perhaps they are trying to get rid of the duplication of route numbers. Stagecoach South East have always had two LOOP routes. One in Eastbourne and then one in the Margate and Ramsgate area.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

I remember last year they renumbered most of the Hastings bus network by adding a "3" to the front. So for example "22" became "322" and "23" became "323" etc. I suspect this may have been to get rid of the duplication of their Hastings routes with their Canterbury area ones. So perhaps renaming LOOP to LINK is also for this reason.

It's interesting how two divisions of the same overall operator brand have different priorities. Stagecoach South East reducing duplication of numbers across their patch including new written names for routes, where as Stagecoach South have seemingly been on a mission to rid their patch of named routes in favour of numbers even where those numbers already exist elsewhere in their operating area (eg Kite>20, Link>32, Spring>6, YoYo>6, Pulse>11/700/701 changes).

 

[greenline712]

The days of me being specifically 'interested' in the route as such, stemming from the days of LCBS Swift (SM) operation when it was a combination of 463/436 as best as I recall?

My recollection is that Woking / Guildford were border towns, and what is today's 34 came from the Alder Valley side of the divide . . . certainly LCBS never went further west than Woking. 436 entered Guildford via Burpham; 463 via Merrow. My May 1975 LCBS timetable shows AV routes 284 / 285 as running via the current 34 route.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

My recollection is that Woking / Guildford were border towns, and what is today's 34 came from the Alder Valley side of the divide . . . certainly LCBS never went further west than Woking. 436 entered Guildford via Burpham; 463 via Merrow. My May 1975 LCBS timetable shows AV routes 284 / 285 as running via the current 34 route.

You may well be correct. 1975 and before is from the time I was thinking of, when AV had their own garage in Woking (Goldsworth road). Be interesting to see a route(s) map for the general area from those times!

 

[martin butler]

You may well be correct. 1975 and before is from the time I was thinking of, when AV had their own garage in Woking (Goldsworth road). Be interesting to see a route(s) map for the general area from those times!

I lived in Woking back then, and A&D had the 34/48 going to Guildford whilst London country had the 436 all three were my local routes down to Kingfield, where they each went different ways onward, For speed the 48 was the most direct, running along the A320, whereas the 436 ran via send, and A3,

Getting back to modern things, has stagecoach transferred some Welsh buses to Hastings? because one I was on, a few days ago had a small welcome sign, that alternated between Welsh and English and high back seats, with what looked to be larger windows than the normal enviros and Darts,

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I lived in Woking back then, and A&D had the 34/48 going to Guildford whilst London country had the 436 all three were my local routes down to Kingfield, where they each went different ways onward, For speed the 48 was the most direct, running along the A320, whereas the 436 ran via send, and A3,

Getting back to modern things, has stagecoach transferred some Welsh buses to Hastings? because one I was on, a few days ago had a small welcome sign, that alternated between Welsh and English and high back seats, with what looked to be larger windows than the normal enviros and Darts,

Those ex-Welsh buses are a handful of Scania/Enviro 300s that made it to the south coast. They initially went to Eastbourne to join the native examples there, but most have now moved to Hastings (exchanged for Enviro 300s) as the Scanias were apparently grounding on a particular point in Eastbourne.

 

[RDP]

Getting back to modern things, has stagecoach transferred some Welsh buses to Hastings? because one I was on, a few days ago had a small welcome sign, that alternated between Welsh and English and high back seats, with what looked to be larger windows than the normal enviros and Darts,

Those ex-Welsh buses are a handful of Scania/Enviro 300s that made it to the south coast. They initially went to Eastbourne to join the native examples there, but most have now moved to Hastings (exchanged for Enviro 300s) as the Scanias were apparently grounding on a particular point in Eastbourne.

There are two 28639/40.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

There are two 28639/40.

There's actually four - 28734/39 are the other two. Although 28734 and native 28607 have been out of use for a bit and not moved to Hastings yet.

 

[duncombec]

Two recent updates on Stagecoach South and Stagecoach South East bus services.

Stagecoach are renaming the LOOP in Eastbourne to LINK from 21st of September. I am not sure why. My only guess is perhaps they are trying to get rid of the duplication of route numbers. Stagecoach South East have always had two LOOP routes. One in Eastbourne and then one in the Margate and Ramsgate area.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

I remember last year they renumbered most of the Hastings bus network by adding a "3" to the front. So for example "22" became "322" and "23" became "323" etc. I suspect this may have been to get rid of the duplication of their Hastings routes with their Canterbury area ones. So perhaps renaming LOOP to LINK is also for this reason.

The reason for the renaming is given in the "link from your link" (https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/south-east/eastbourne-service-change-september):

Loop NEW 'Link'

Town centre - Langney - Hampden Park - Eastbourne District General Hospital - town centre

Following changes to legal data requirements, we can no longer call this route the Loop as tracking and data for it conflict with our other Loop route in Thanet. To reflect how the service connects communities to some of Eastbourne's key locations, we've chosen to rename it the Link. There will be no changes to the route itself, but there will be some minor timetable changes at peak times. This will help to give journeys the extra time they need to complete journeys reliably.

 

[stadler]

The reason for the renaming is given in the "link from your link" (https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/south-east/eastbourne-service-change-september):

Ah thank you. I completely missed that. Stagecoach South East still have nine other duplications - 1 / 1A / 5 / 7 / 8 / 73 / 74 / 95 / 96 - so i presume that means that these will get renumbered too at some point. I have not heard any announcements but presumably it will happen in the coming months.

 

[embers25]

Stagecoach southwest have 1,1a,, 2,4,,4a,13,14,19,24 at least that are duplicates.

 

[stadler]

Stagecoach southwest have 1,1a,, 2,4,,4a,13,14,19,24 at least that are duplicates.

Stagecoach South are much worse and have dozens of duplications:

5x route 1
5x route 2
4x route 3
4x route 4
5x route 5
4x route 6
6x route 7
2x route 8
3x route 9
3x route 10
3x route 11
3x route 12
2x route 13
2x route 14
2x route 15
3x route 16
2x route 17
2x route 18
2x route 19
3x route 20
2x route 22
2x route 23
3x route 46
2x route 47
2x route 53
2x route 61
2x route 63
2x route 66
2x route 67
2x route 69
2x route 75
2x route 87
2x route 91
2x route 655
3x route 700

They would have a massive amount of work on their hands if they wanted to get rid of their duplication.

One of their routes is even duplicated six times which may well be a record for the most amount of times a number is used by the same operator.

Stagecoach South East in comparison have far less duplication now:

2x route 1
2x route 1A
2x route 5
2x route 7
2x route 8
2x route 73
2x route 74
2x route 95
2x route 96

They have managed to get rid of all but nine and it sounds like the remaining ones will probably get renumbered at some point.

 

[embers25]

Which leads the the question of if South East say they have to change, why doesn't every other duplicate route across the operators?

 

[LAIRA]

Stagecoach South are much worse and have dozens of duplications:

5x route 1
5x route 2
4x route 3
4x route 4
5x route 5
4x route 6
6x route 7
2x route 8
3x route 9
3x route 10
3x route 11
3x route 12
2x route 13
2x route 14
2x route 15
3x route 16
2x route 17
2x route 18
2x route 19
3x route 20
2x route 22
2x route 23
3x route 46
2x route 47
2x route 53
2x route 61
2x route 63
2x route 66
2x route 67
2x route 69
2x route 75
2x route 87
2x route 91
2x route 655
3x route 700

They would have a massive amount of work on their hands if they wanted to get rid of their duplication.

One of their routes is even duplicated six times which may well be a record for the most amount of times a number is used by the same operator.

Stagecoach South East in comparison have far less duplication now:

2x route 1
2x route 1A
2x route 5
2x route 7
2x route 8
2x route 73
2x route 74
2x route 95
2x route 96

They have managed to get rid of all but nine and it sounds like the remaining ones will probably get renumbered at some point.

This is why Western & Southern National had 3 digit numbers and the first digit was the area code. 2xx Somerset 3xx North Devon 4xx Dorset 5xx Cornwall.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Stagecoach South are much worse and have dozens of duplications:

5x route 1
5x route 2
4x route 3
4x route 4
5x route 5
4x route 6
6x route 7
2x route 8
3x route 9
3x route 10
3x route 11
3x route 12
2x route 13
2x route 14
2x route 15
3x route 16
2x route 17
2x route 18
2x route 19
3x route 20
2x route 22
2x route 23
3x route 46
2x route 47
2x route 53
2x route 61
2x route 63
2x route 66
2x route 67
2x route 69
2x route 75
2x route 87
2x route 91
2x route 655
3x route 700

They would have a massive amount of work on their hands if they wanted to get rid of their duplication.

Hampshire County Council (HCC) are indirectly doing their best to help, with the cessation of subsidy seeing each of the following numbers having one less example from the end of the month: 7 (Andover to Newbury), 46 (Winchester to North Baddesley), and 61 (Winchester to Eastleigh). The 9 will also lose one when their commercial Alton Town Circular is withdrawn from the same time (replaced on a reduced basis by Cresta Coaches 209). With the way HCC are wielding their axe, I wouldn't be surprised if we see another 9 go in the not too distant future (Farnborough Western Circular).

 

[buslad1988]

Which leads the the question of if South East say they have to change, why doesn't every other duplicate route across the operators?

I’m not sure what all the fuss is about in regards to having to change numbers to eradicate duplication.

Keeping route numbers low and simplified usually helps matters and should be the most imporant.

Is it just for back office tidiness? Which isn’t putting the customers first by changing numbers/names purely for that reason.

 

[RDP]

If Stagecoach South East are trying to eliminate duplicate route numbers why was the recently introduced Eastbourne service 7 given that number when there was already an existing service 7 in Hastings?

 

[WibbleWobble]

Is it just for back office tidiness? Which isn’t putting the customers first by changing numbers/names purely for that reason.

This is where it is puzzling - back office systems could use a unique service code. Go South Coast does this, Stagecoach South does this; both use four digit codes to individually identify a service. With regards to open data, services are grouped by registration, so if the registration is indicated against the service within the service "header" information (which the open data schema requires), then having duplicate numbers wouldn't matter.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This is why Western & Southern National had 3 digit numbers and the first digit was the area code. 2xx Somerset 3xx North Devon 4xx Dorset 5xx Cornwall.

They had two digits around Plymouth, and 1** in South Devon (and 2** also in Wiltshire).

Not certain the exact reason but some firms were quite happy to have duplication in their service numbers until the early days of computers made it necessary to remove duplication

 

[Mollman]

With service numbers it is easier to have public facing duplicates as the back office will have a unique number. If you look at service registrations they are often show as both e.g. 201/1 the 1 being the public number and 201 the back office number. This has been long standing as you would do similar for evening tenders on a commercial service e.g. 12 daytime and 912 evening so you could output data required by the local authority easily.

With named services it is probably harder as you either end up with LOO for one and LOP for the other or you have a service number created. It probably would be better if they dispensed with names and had L1 in Thanet and L2 in Eastbourne but kept the brand, but Stagecoach no longer do route branding.

 

[LUYMun]

In some minor vehicle news, Basingstoke’s 27659 (GX10KZM) is on loan to Aldershot at the current moment, ahead of doing shuttles for next weekend’s British Motor Show at Farnborough.

There are some more buses borrowed on the shuttle services for the British Motor Show 2025, held at the Farnborough International Exhibition Centre. 18511 is on loan to Aldershot to help cover the displaced Golds on its regular routes, while E400 red 19749-19802-19807 and 19808 are on loan from Chichester, with some of the golds from the Aldershot fleet also on the shuttles.

 

[Old Walter]

Deleted

 

[Flange Squeal]

The 91 becoming 28 Woking - Goldsworth Park - Knaphill probably wouldn't be a great idea given Falcon Buses run a Woking - St Johns - Knaphill - Guildford service

The Woking - Goldsworth Park - Knaphill route 91 becoming 28 might cause some confusion with the Woking - St Johns - Knaphill - Guildford 28 operated by Falcon Buses, given they'd end up with the same number but running via two completely different routings between Woking and Knaphill!

By coincidence though, today is the last day of Stagecoach operating their Alton circular route 9, with a partial replacement running twice a week operated by Cresta Coaches from next week which will actually run with the number 209 (complimenting their existing twice a week local routes 206/208).

 

[Old Walter]

Deleted