Stagecoach South & South East

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ok bustimes.org tracking finally working again.

So I see one of my local routes, the 63, is using E200s. Not too bad, but E300s would have been better. Imo they perform better and have more seats (63 gets very busy between Guildford and Cranleigh)

Ah but no different from what they replaced in Versas and e200s, and probably need to use whatever longer vehicles on the 34/35.

 

[Surreyman]

Ok bustimes.org tracking finally working again.

So I see one of my local routes, the 63, is using E200s. Not too bad, but E300s would have been better. Imo they perform better and have more seats (63 gets very busy between Guildford and Cranleigh)

Bustimes.org reveals that a number of E300s have been transferred in from other 'South' depots but all are being used on the 34/35 & 91, i.e the northern area taken over from Arriva, this suggests that either they think that's where the capacity is required or that 53/63 is better run with shorter vehicles for whatever reason?
Of course the E300s may be just a short term fix?
Of the 2 E200s from Devon and the other 3 from Western Scottish, has anyone seen them in service?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Ah but no different from what they replaced in Versas and e200s, and probably need to use whatever longer vehicles on the 34/35.

The Versas were 12m, I'm pretty sure.

Bustimes.org reveals that a number of E300s have been transferred in from other 'South' depots but all are being used on the 34/35 & 91, i.e the northern area taken over from Arriva, this suggests that either they think that's where the capacity is required or that 53/63 is better run with shorter vehicles for whatever reason?
Of course the E300s may be just a short term fix?
Of the 2 E200s from Devon and the other 3 from Western Scottish, has anyone seen them in service?

36255 is at Andover, 36256 at Portsmouth.
36701-36703 are not yet in service.

Yes, 34/35 definetly needs 12m vehicles but I think the same for the 63 too. I caught the 63 a lot so that's how I know about it.

 

[fgwrich]

As at 8pm this evening, Artington Park & Ride had the following 11 buses parked up: -

27564 ex Basingstoke
27651 ex Chichester
27658 ex Worthing
27833 ex Andover
27835 ex Andover
27836 ex Chichester
36435 ex Aldershot
36436
36835
36839
36840 ex Basingstoke

They looked like they had all recently been through the wash, (my records for previous depots not 100% guaranteed).

I'm a little bit sorry to see some of the ex Basingstoke 27s transfer down there - 27564 (GX58GNN) - it's a bit of a beast of an E300, noisy and with a bit of a mechanical rattle to it. I only had it to work last week too!

I rather recon that, like a lot of south depots at the moment Guildford will probably become fairly E300 heavy. Have they borrowed any of Basingstoke's MMCs yet? Winchester and Portsmouth seem to be at the moment!

 

[cnjb8]

The Versas were 12m, I'm pretty sure.



36255 is at Andover, 36256 at Portsmouth.
36701-36703 are not yet in service.

Yes, 34/35 definetly needs 12m vehicles but I think the same for the 63 too. I caught the 63 a lot so that's how I know about it.

No, the Versa’s are 11.1m long

 

[AB93]

I think Guildford could do with some more double deckers for the busiest routes, maybe more Scania E400s or Dennis Trident 2s. Personally, the 1/2 could as a result fully run with DDs (imo the busiest Stagecoach Guildford route), with the currently branded SL64 E200s displaced for the ex Arriva routes as well as already Stagecoach run routes like 65 and 70. The 1/2 could maybe run with ex Gloucester VX62 Scania E400s, if there's enough spare ones.

There are no spare VX62s available to transfer

The problem with having too many deckers at Peasmarsh is that they are too tall to be accommodated in the depot building, so certain things require them to have to go to Aldershot. Therefore the more they have, the harder keeping them all on the road would be.

Not to mention the fixed costs of keeping them on the road - insurance, maintenance, fuel...

Considering that for many years going back about 15 years, Arriva Guildford lived with an allocation of only two double deckers, plus what others have mentioned above, I think they'll be fine...
They were used on the 34/35 for school loadings until they were no longer able to pass under a low bridge (height limit reduced), leaving them - other than some stuff at the uni and a reduced frequency on the 436 for a while - with no requirement for double deckers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Versas were 12m, I'm pretty sure.

Nope and they're 38 seaters whilst the e200s coming in are 37 seaters.

As an aside, in the trip reports, I've posted my experience of the last days of Arriva in Surrey (and Stagecoach Hants and Surrey) - I hope people find it of interest

 

[AB93]

So I see one of my local routes, the 63, is using E200s. Not too bad, but E300s would have been better. Imo they perform better and have more seats (63 gets very busy between Guildford and Cranleigh)
Ah but no different from what they replaced in Versas and e200s, and probably need to use whatever longer vehicles on the 34/35.

The Versas were 12m, I'm pretty sure.

Yes, 34/35 definetly needs 12m vehicles but I think the same for the 63 too. I caught the 63 a lot so that's how I know about it.

The 63 doesn't need anything, as cnjb8 says the Versas are 11.1m and the 53/63 have been run with midibus length vehicles for the last 20 odd years.

Even the 34/35 doesn't fully 'need' 12m vehicles - it's ended up inheriting some in recent years to best cope with the school loads due to the above-mentioned banning of double deckers from the service (and no doubt Stagecoach will deploy the E300s according to those journeys) but other than that, midibuses would suffice again as they have done for many years now.

Bustimes.org reveals that a number of E300s have been transferred in from other 'South' depots but all are being used on the 34/35 & 91, i.e the northern area taken over from Arriva, this suggests that either they think that's where the capacity is required or that 53/63 is better run with shorter vehicles for whatever reason?

The 53/63 are the most rural routes on the ex-Arriva network so I guess it makes sense to not deploy bigger buses than they need to. Someone's posted the last run out information and several bus workings are marked as 'No Merc' while the others are mostly 'Any', which perhaps gives an idea of things.

 

[Class450/4DES]

Ok bustimes.org tracking finally working again.

So I see one of my local routes, the 63, is using E200s. Not too bad, but E300s would have been better. Imo they perform better and have more seats (63 gets very busy between Guildford and Cranleigh)

I usually get Enviro 300's, Scania Enviro 400's, ALX 400's & Enviro 200's on the 65.

 

[Surreyman]

I think vehicle allocations are more fluid than we think, I do not know if the ex South E300s are permanent or just a temporary measure.
It would seem more single deckers are promised from Scotland.
I think the 'No Merc' was a 'nice to have' rather than a physical necessity, someone may know otherwise??
As others have said, Double deckers are problematic because Peasmarsh has limited maintenance facilities and going back in time, the London & South Western Railway, when it built the main line from @ Surbiton down to Basingstoke, built most of the bridges over roads to a lower height than would be acceptable today, Aldershot & District had a 'Lowbridge' decker fleet and latterly Alder Valley had some low height VRTs & then Olympians.
A few years back the 'Victoria Arch' otherwise known as the main north south road under the railway in the centre of Woking had its height limit reduced (note the limit was reduced, not specifically the physical bridge or road).
Double deckers can physically work the 91, just a little hard to travel there from Guildford.
The newly extended route 1 to Merrow Bushy Hill uses some 'deckers so reintroducing them to Merrow.
The 65, despite being officially converted to single deck has Tridents most days, as does the 'Kite' from Aldershot.
The 53/63 did use 'deckers some years back, no low bridges but limited passenger demand and probably a lack of tree lopping rules them out. I think someone on this forum pointed out that one of the PT school routes still serves Cranleigh using a Trident.
I remember a couple of years ago when Leas Rd still had a couple of Volvo B7TL 'deckers, they used to schedule one on the 18, the route with a typical passenger count of 3 each way?

It occurred to me today that with the takeover of Arriva, Stagecoach has almost re-created Aldershot & District in terms of area covered - Woking - Guildford- Cranleigh - Haslemere - Farnham - Aldershot - Fleet - Farnborough - Camberley - Bagshot - Knaphill. Only the routes on the east side of Guildford - 1(part) 6, 715 are in the former LCBS area.

 

[Flange Squeal]

A few years back the 'Victoria Arch' otherwise known as the main north south road under the railway in the centre of Woking had its height limit reduced (note the limit was reduced, not specifically the physical bridge or road).

Interestingly, both Victoria Arch and also Maybury Arch (located London side of the station) are currently plated with round 'order' signs labelled at 4.1m (13'-6"). This doesn't seem to bother everyone though, with AirSym running a contract under them with Enviro 400MMCs, which according to the Alexander Dennis spec sheet are either 4.2m or 4.3m (these examples do look like the lower height ones admittedly, but still). Judge for yourself... https://www.flickr.com/photos/lewisbus/51347726544/ There is talk of the planned Victoria Arch remodelling resulting in a higher height limit, which would be sensible given its on the A320 trunk route.

Double deckers can physically work the 91, just a little hard to travel there from Guildford.

The main section between Woking and Knaphill indeed, and in fact a pair of deckers were brought in from elsewhere for the period of reduced service last year to maintain social distancing on what was one of their busier routes. Regular use of deckers presents an added complication in terms of allocation though, preventing the simple sticking out of buses to operate the route all day. Monday to Saturday evenings require a single deck on at least one of the two boards to fit under the low bridge west of Brookwood station on the Pirbright extensions (also affects the Sunday service). More minor complications are the vehicle that comes onto the 91 off the 28 on weekday mornings, which Stagecoach are now advertising as a through service, and the last evening service that uses Victoria Arch to access the down side entrance of the station.

It occurred to me today that with the takeover of Arriva, Stagecoach has almost re-created Aldershot & District in terms of area covered - Woking - Guildford- Cranleigh - Haslemere - Farnham - Aldershot - Fleet - Farnborough - Camberley - Bagshot - Knaphill. Only the routes on the east side of Guildford - 1(part) 6, 715 are in the former LCBS area.

I guess not really a priority given the state of the world, but wouldn't it be nice to mark this reunification with a special livery, like they've done in the past for anniversaries in 2006 and 2012? Afterall 2022 can mark 110 years since the Aldershot & District Traction Company was formed, 50 years since Alder Valley came into being, and 30 years since (I think) the final part of Alder Valley was sold... to Stagecoach!

 

[wiltshirebloke]

It's obvious that other regions would be asked to help out with the new operations while they bed in, but it's not gone down well in Swindon, where the locals have been complaining about the cancelled services due to local shortages.

An internal email from Stagecoach to its entire Swindon team asking drivers to work elsewhere has been met with disbelief.

Commuters in Swindon have faced months of cuts to services in and around the town. But now drivers have been asked to volunteer to work at Guildford next week.

The email from acting operations manager Stuart Dudley, seen by the Adver, said: “We are looking for volunteers who would like to work for a week in Guildford on the lead up to Christmas. The supervisors have done a great job clearing all Swindon work for the week so we are in a position to lend a hand.”

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I usually get Enviro 300's, Scania Enviro 400's, ALX 400's & Enviro 200's on the 65.

I get Tridents most of the time, but once had a Dart and a E300.

 

[MotCO]

It's obvious that other regions would be asked to help out with the new operations while they bed in, but it's not gone down well in Swindon, where the locals have been complaining about the cancelled services due to local shortages.

Where have all the ex-Arriva drivers gone?

 

[Hophead]

Where have all the ex-Arriva drivers gone?

If it was me in that position, I'd be inclined to take a break over Christmas and New Year, before starting the new job.

 

[MotCO]

If it was me in that position, I'd be inclined to take a break over Christmas and New Year, before starting the new job.

True - particularly if they received a redundancy payment.

 

[Surreyman]

Where have all the ex-Arriva drivers gone?

Given that Stagecoach are now running a Saturday service on many routes and have some reduced PVR due to the schools/colleges having broken up, they must be really struggling for drivers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I see Stagecoach have rebranded the Arriva enquiry office (photo Steve Guess) but it's still closed https://www.flickr.com/photos/steves-travels/51757122286/in/pool-2326991@N22/

 

[AB93]

Where have all the ex-Arriva drivers gone?

If it was me in that position, I'd be inclined to take a break over Christmas and New Year, before starting the new job.

As Hophead says, and plenty haven't been tempted to go for worse pay and conditions from a depot that's potentially the 'wrong' side of the town centre for them - particularly in the current buoyant job market.

And on the subject of staffing, it's bad news from January. From Surrey CC website: Forthcoming bus timetable changes - Surrey County Council (surreycc.gov.uk)
Intended/normal frequencies I've added in brackets.

• 1 and 2 - Reduced to 30-min frequency 7 days a week, but with additional Mon-Fri journeys between Guildford & Manor Park to give a 15-min frequency between the campuses [intended x15 mins]
• 6 - Reduced to 30-min frequency on Mon-Sat [intended x20 mins]
• 34/35 - Reduced to 30-min combined frequency on Mon-Sat. Evening shorts between Woking & St John's withdrawn [intended combined x20 mins]
• 47 - Morning service reduced from 3 journeys to 2.
• 53 and 63 - Service 53 'short' journeys to/from Cranleigh withdrawn, with re-timings on service 53/63 to give a 30-min frequency Guildford-Cranleigh on Mon-Sat. [intended combined x20 mins]
• 91 - Reduced to 20-min frequency on weekdays. Evening service reduced to hourly. The morning extension to Bishop David Brown School is maintained. The last bus will still run at 2325 but along the normal 91 route (not via Woking Station South Side). [intended combined x15 mins, x12 weekday peaks]
• 100 Spectrum P & R - Service will not operate [should be every 12 minutes]
• 200 Artington P & R - Reduced to 30-min frequency Mon-Sat, increasing to every 20 mins at peak times. Journeys on service 70/71/72 will also divert via the Artington P&R site during P&R operating hours, to provide additional frequency to/from the Artington P&R site [should be every 10 minutes]
• 300 Merrow P&R - Reduced to 30-min frequency Mon-Sat, increasing to every 20 mins at peak times. [should be every 15 minutes]

 

[Surreyman]

It's obvious that other regions would be asked to help out with the new operations while they bed in, but it's not gone down well in Swindon, where the locals have been complaining about the cancelled services due to local shortages.

Swindon is being highlighted but probably all Stagecoach operating Co's in south & midlands received a 'round-robin' e-mail plea, in normal times might have had a response but I guess all bus companies are suffering driver shortages.

 

[Class450/4DES]

Are they any more updates on fleet movements?
Also bustimes.org says 27526 is still operating in Scotland while 36701/2/3 are not operating yet, the only buses that have worked here are 36255 of Andover & 36256 of Portsmouth.

 

[Surreyman]

Bustimes is today recording 10941 E400 MMC on route 34 Guildford - Camberley, assume this is a mistake? ticket machine maybe or can an MMC fit under Wokings Victoria Arch?

 

[thameslink2000]

Bustimes is today recording 10941 E400 MMC on route 34 Guildford - Camberley, assume this is a mistake? ticket machine maybe or can an MMC fit under Wokings Victoria Arch?

Reckon its just a ticket machine anomaly. 10941 was tracking on a selection of Guildford routes last week, at the same time as it's usual 700 Portsmouth which would be more expected.

10941 - SN18 KNE

ADL Enviro400 MMC

bustimes.org

 

[Flange Squeal]

Reckon its just a ticket machine anomaly. 10941 was tracking on a selection of Guildford routes last week, at the same time as it's usual 700 Portsmouth which would be more expected.

10941 - SN18 KNE

ADL Enviro400 MMC

bustimes.org

The lower height ones can fit, but not legally… as one contract operator likes to demonstrate on it and/or the same plated Maybury Hill bridge.

 

[150249]

Reckon its just a ticket machine anomaly. 10941 was tracking on a selection of Guildford routes last week, at the same time as it's usual 700 Portsmouth which would be more expected.

10941 - SN18 KNE

ADL Enviro400 MMC

bustimes.org

I like how it moves about 5 miles in a minute!
300mph

Edit: forgive me it is about 26 miles actually.

 

[route101]

I seen on a old map a E3 route running out of Basingstoke. Was this a Basingstoke to Winchester route?

 

[Class450/4DES]

I like how it moves about 5 miles in a minute!
300mph

Edit: forgive me it is about 26 miles actually.

I saw a Coastliner 700 E400MMC doing a transatlantic crossing once.

 

[fgwrich]

I seen on a old map a E3 route running out of Basingstoke. Was this a Basingstoke to Winchester route?

I've certainly not seen an E3 route - though I've got a feeling it might have been a private contract job.

A slight update to a vehicle mentioned previously, it would appear that rather than going to Guildford, the two ex Devon Enviro's have gone to Andover and Portsmouth.

Presumably as a result of Guildford, this means that two Darts have been resurrected at Basingstoke - One 54 plate vehicle in the new livery and a 56 plate in the old. The latest update from the Fleet Report website has this to say:

Moving out of the reserve fleet here, and into their respective depots main fleets, are Trident 18078 and Enviro 300 27561 at Winchester, Enviro 300 27564 and Enviro 200 36840 at Basingstoke, Dart SLF 34631 and Enviro 300 27570 at Chichester, Dart SLF 34629 at Portsmouth, Dart SLFs 35120 and 35127 at Andover, and Dart SLF 34518 at Worthing. Enviro 400 MMC 10959 has returned to service at Worthing after receiving accident damage repairs. Trident 17740 and Enviro 300 27667 have been withdrawn.

A number of Enviro 200s, including 36701/702/703, have transferred here from Stagecoach West Scotland with 36701/703 having reached Portsmouth depot on 15th December 2021 and 36702 en-route. Enviro 200s 36255 and 36256 have been transferred from Stagecoach South West, with them being allocated to Andover and Portsmouth respectively. https://fleetreport.co.uk/latest-news/24th-december-2021

36255 WA11CHO STAGECOACH SOUTH a recent transfer to ANDOVER from STAGECOACH SOUTH WEST

Basingstoke Alencon Link

www.flickr.com

 

[Flange Squeal]

The aforementioned Scottish Enviro 200s 36701/2/3 (SF62 CHC in new livery and CHK/L in beachball with Western fares branding) have today arrived at Aldershot, replacing some vehicles transferred to Guildford.

 

[Class450/4DES]

2 of the ex Scottish Enviro 300's have disappeared off bustimes.org
27524
27526
27528
I've underlined the missing buses and it also seems they are still running in Scotland too.
Fleet list links:

Fleet list – Stagecoach South – bustimes.org

Fleet list – Stagecoach East Scotland – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2022 ==



7/1/2022
Here's my tweet of a recent transfer & I have added a photo under it too of what vehicle it is.

7/1/2022 pt2
I re added 36701 back to bustimes.org again, I't was seen working in Aldershot today.