Stagecoach Group (Group-wide matters)

[goldisgood]

A direct link to this post would be much obliged.

I've put a link in my previous post.

 

[jonesy3001]

probably false gen otherwise other depots wouldn't have the new buses branded for gold routes.

 

[Mwanesh]

Dont believe rumours.If there are no gold buses in this years order you can then believe it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

One for Mr Bonwick - usually good for accurate Stagecoach info!!!

Would seem odd given the recent influx for the revised S6 at Swindon and the X4 at Northampton but then again, any decision always has some cut off point. We've already seen the Solos moved out of Leamington too.

That said, Gold has long been a slightly curious case. Some subsidiaries have been enthusiastic adopters like West and Oxfordshire. Others have latterly embraced it (like Cymru) whilst others have been more reluctant like South (three examples in that great stretch of territory from Hampshire to Kent) or have never entertained it (e.g. most of Scotland, the North East, Manchester).

If it is going, it might be a reflection that the features that Gold brought (e.g. better seating, wifi, USBs) are actually now just the expectation as a minimum, rather than a premium product?

Mind you, have been on the more recent e200mmcs (Porth) and e400mmcs (Swindon and Barnsley) and was really impressed by them above the base product!

 

[tbtc]

If it is going, it might be a reflection that the features that Gold brought (e.g. better seating, wifi, USBs) are actually now just the expectation as a minimum, rather than a premium product?

That would make sense, if the case* - standard practice in some businesses to create a "luxury" brand to attract new customers, then (after a while) make that luxury the "norm".

I can certainly see the logic in Stagecoach's approach, so that the buses with wifi/ leather seats/ USBs etc will turn heads for the first couple of years, rather than the First Group approach (where the brand new Streetlites in Sheffield boasting such upmarket features are painted in the same livery as the S/T reg B10BLEs, so a motorist or pedestrian won't appreciate the Great Leap Forward and assume that "a bus is a bus is a bus".

And, sitting half way between the two approaches, is the Arriva way of doing things where there are different versions of similar turquoise liveries and different names for them (Max, Saphire) but I'm not sure what the top class product is or whether the different liveries are meant to represent different classes of vehicle (or are just slightly fussy updates to the "traditional" turquoise)... and I say this as a bus enthusiast!

(* - I say "if" because I'm not claiming any inside information)

 

[Mwanesh]

That would make sense, if the case* - standard practice in some businesses to create a "luxury" brand to attract new customers, then (after a while) make that luxury the "norm".

I can certainly see the logic in Stagecoach's approach, so that the buses with wifi/ leather seats/ USBs etc will turn heads for the first couple of years, rather than the First Group approach (where the brand new Streetlites in Sheffield boasting such upmarket features are painted in the same livery as the S/T reg B10BLEs, so a motorist or pedestrian won't appreciate the Great Leap Forward and assume that "a bus is a bus is a bus".

And, sitting half way between the two approaches, is the Arriva way of doing things where there are different versions of similar turquoise liveries and different names for them (Max, Saphire) but I'm not sure what the top class product is or whether the different liveries are meant to represent different classes of vehicle (or are just slightly fussy updates to the "traditional" turquoise)... and I say this as a bus enthusiast!

(* - I say "if" because I'm not claiming any inside information)

The Max brand has been discontinued as of now.

 

[goldisgood]

From Steven Knight Media

Stagecoach has said that work is still ongoing on a project to refresh its corporate branding and image. The current Stagecoach UK Bus livery and branding is almost 20 years old, having replaced the original Stagecoach ‘stripes’ livery in 2000. It has remained largely unchanged since then except for some simplification which removed some of the upward swoops at the front of vehicles and the removal of the white separator between the red and orange swoops on the rear of vehicles. Several alternative colour schemes have been introduced for specific routes and networks over the last 19 years along with the Stagecoach Gold (originally Goldline) livery and branding.

Plans for a new livery possibly?

 

[overthewater]

That come out last year, there is even a thread on here about it.

 

[overthewater]

It’s hard to say if the previous MD actually created the King's Lynn problems. But the Competition it faced from the localy based Lynx which I believe started after Stagecoach bought Norfolk Green did not help. King's Lynn to Hunstanton cannot sustain two operators at the frequencies being offered. Stagecoach did not help themselves by ditching the local NG identity.

NG was never going to run as a stand-alone devision within Stagecoach. But if the 2000s structure of UK Bus had been left in place ie the 3 divisions of what was Midland Red South, United Counties and Cambus and not been rearranged into 2 divisions it might have given NG more managerial time from Cambridge. This apples to Bedford which was managed much better from Northampton than Cambridge.

(Mods this probably should be either a new thread or the Stagecoach one!)

So What did the old MD do, that nearly caused it hit the rocks? Has its been spilt back into three?

 

[goldisgood]

A batch of 20 Enviro 200 MMCs, I presume 10.8m, have been delivered to Kilmarnock for the Kilmarnock local services. It seems like there are 11 -68 plates (37482-37492, YW68 OYA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/J/K/L) are 9 -19 plates (37493-37501, YX19 OSA/B/C/D/E/F/J/K) with white LEDs and the e-leather SmartSeats. Some flickr links below (not my photos).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126644399@N06/33321817488/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/126644399@N06/47133289752/

It also appears there are 2 more Volvo B11Rs (Panoramas?) for Western (54634/5, YX19 NKU/V) I assume to replace the Megabus Panoramas.
EDIT: I've found a photo of one on Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/david371/46497800284/

 

[overthewater]

Where is the older stock going to go? 10 plate E200s?

 

[goldisgood]

I don't know for certain, but I'd expect they will leave Western for somewhere else with lold Darts that need to be replaced, particularly because Western doesn't have any Darts - it would be good if they go to Stagecoach West to modernise their midibus fleet, as Swindon's in particular is very old but I'm sure there are other areas that could use them too.

 

[overthewater]

Surly Swindon busy enough to justify brand new stock and not having to relay on 9 year old castoffs?

 

[goldisgood]

Surly Swindon busy enough to justify brand new stock and not having to relay on 9 year old castoffs?

I'd have thought so, particularly with the amount of new development, but with new buses for the last 2 years for the 55 and now S6, any more new stock seems very unlikely. Cast off Enviro 200s seems like all Swindon would get to replace Darts for the next few years, if they are even replaced instead of staying at Swindon until they expire.
I'm not too sure how good the town services are, but the 7 has remained at a high frequency and I think it runs with mainly ALX400s now, and could be a candidate for new buses but that would only replace Tridents.
Apparantly new Enviro 400s are due for Gloucester for the 10? I think that's come from here.

 

[Fifescottish]

Could do with something to replace Dunfermline's clapped out Versas.

 

[gka472l]

A batch of 20 Enviro 200 MMCs, I presume 10.8m, have been delivered to Kilmarnock for the Kilmarnock local services. It seems like there are 11 -68 plates (37482-37492, YW68 OYA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/J/K/L) are 9 -19 plates (37493-37501, YX19 OSA/B/C/D/E/F/J/K) with white LEDs and the e-leather SmartSeats. Some flickr links below (not my photos).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126644399@N06/33321817488/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/126644399@N06/47133289752/

It also appears there are 2 more Volvo B11Rs (Panoramas?) for Western (54634/5, YX19 NKU/V) I assume to replace the Megabus Panoramas.
EDIT: I've found a photo of one on Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/david371/46497800284/

Last one is 37601, 37501 already exists in London.

HTH

 

[Jordan Adam]

Where is the older stock going to go? 10 plate E200s?

Can't comment on the accuracy of this, but apparently they'll be going to Cumbria.

It also appears there are 2 more Volvo B11Rs (Panoramas?) for Western (54634/5, YX19 NKU/V) I assume to replace the Megabus Panoramas.
EDIT: I've found a photo of one on Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/david371/46497800284/

That's an Elite rather than a Panorama, Megabus don't have any Panorama's (as of yet), so i assume the vehicles in question are Elite Interdecks.

 

[LAIRA]

Where is the older stock going to go? 10 plate E200s?

Seen on another group that 36131-36134 are at Glouceter.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Does anyone know if Stagecoach Oxford are due anything new? I know I've said similar but the S1, S2 and S5 maybe could do with new buses. I'll be honest I don't recall any reliability issues with the Scania E400's but the S1 and S2 buses do look quite dated in my opinion. However, they've lasted much longer on that route than the Volvo Olympians and Tridents so that explains it !

Changing the subject, if anyone has the March 2019 'BUSES' magazine, there's a page explaining reliability issues with the X5 Oxford to Cambridge services. Not just with traffic but with the coaches themselves (64-plate tri-axle Volvo's). Each vehicle Stagecoach East have said has had 20 modifications which is the reason for the white 12-plate Volvo on loan. Also, Enviro400 double-deckers have had to be used on the Bedford - Cambridge leg of the X5 which they will at least have nearly 80 seats and is better than nothing used.

According to wikipedia for this X5, this is the worst route in the UK and a driver expects a breakdown on the route at least once a week.

Why do I get the sense that the Volvo B10M coaches were I guess the least problematic vehicles on this route?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Changing the subject, if anyone has the March 2019 'BUSES' magazine, there's a page explaining reliability issues with the X5 Oxford to Cambridge services. Not just with traffic but with the coaches themselves (64-plate tri-axle Volvo's). Each vehicle Stagecoach East have said has had 20 modifications which is the reason for the white 12-plate Volvo on loan. Also, Enviro400 double-deckers have had to be used on the Bedford - Cambridge leg of the X5 which they will at least have nearly 80 seats and is better than nothing used.

According to wikipedia for this X5, this is the worst route in the UK and a driver expects a breakdown on the route at least once a week.

Why do I get the sense that the Volvo B10M coaches were I guess the least problematic vehicles on this route?

I'll get scolded for saying this (despite it being perfectly true)... But it's all down to "poor" maintenance.

We have a mix of former X5 vehicles (KX58/KX61 Panthers) and they're unreliable piles of junk. Stagecoach here are away to replace them with totally unsuitable E400MMCs they're that unreliable.

While it certainly varies from depot Stagecoach's maintenance often leaves lots to be desired, North Scotland in particular are pretty poor.

 

[Mwanesh]

I'll get scolded for saying this (despite it being perfectly true)... But it's all down to "poor" maintenance.

We have a mix of former X5 vehicles (KX58/KX61 Panthers) and they're unreliable piles of junk. Stagecoach here are away to replace them with totally unsuitable E400MMCs they're that unreliable.

While it certainly varies from depot Stagecoach's maintenance often leaves lots to be desired, North Scotland in particular are pretty poor.

I will disagree with you on that one.As someone who drives those coaches.There is a problem with Volvo not maintanance.The new 68 plates a few weeks ago half of them were back at Plaxton all faulty.The 67 plates in South Wales every few days there is one in the yard at Pontypridd.I wish Plaxton could try an Elite with a Daf engine.The Van Hools had their own problems but if set up correctly they are no problem

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Does anyone know if Stagecoach Oxford are due anything new? I know I've said similar but the S1, S2 and S5 maybe could do with new buses. I'll be honest I don't recall any reliability issues with the Scania E400's but the S1 and S2 buses do look quite dated in my opinion. However, they've lasted much longer on that route than the Volvo Olympians and Tridents so that explains it !

To be honest, they’re looking tired and they’ve been on there longer than the examples recently replaced on the S6

 

[Mwanesh]

Chesterfield had 64 plate X17 gold buses replaced last year after only under 4 years .How they managed it i have no idea.They just get on quietely.The threat of franchising is putting off bus companies .Look at Manchester it uses to get new stock nearly every year all they do get are cascades now.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I will disagree with you on that one.As someone who drives those coaches.There is a problem with Volvo not maintanance.The new 68 plates a few weeks ago half of them were back at Plaxton all faulty.The 67 plates in South Wales every few days there is one in the yard at Pontypridd.I wish Plaxton could try an Elite with a Daf engine.The Van Hools had their own problems but if set up correctly they are no problem

Oh dear . Something at Volvo has gone very wrong then. I never had Volvo / Plaxton coaches down as unreliable!

I'll be honest though, when I travelled on around say 7 or 8 of the 64-plate X5 Volvo coaches, they would clunk a bit over pot holes which is the only problem I find with them. Older coaches wouldn't do it as bad.

 

[Fifescottish]

The doors are the worst problem on the plaxton coaches in my experience!

 

[iantherev]

If it’s a Volvo problem, why aren’t other Volvo users e.g Edwards vehicles on National Express work having similar issues? Or is it more down to Stagecoach specification. We have been here before in South Wales with the MAN debacles and Enviro bodied Scanias back and forth to Keltrucks, Cwmbran.

 

[Charlie M.]

I'd have thought so, particularly with the amount of new development, but with new buses for the last 2 years for the 55 and now S6, any more new stock seems very unlikely. Cast off Enviro 200s seems like all Swindon would get to replace Darts for the next few years, if they are even replaced instead of staying at Swindon until they expire.
I'm not too sure how good the town services are, but the 7 has remained at a high frequency and I think it runs with mainly ALX400s now, and could be a candidate for new buses but that would only replace Tridents.
Apparantly new Enviro 400s are due for Gloucester for the 10? I think that's come from here.

Yes I would certainly agree that Swindon deserves new Single decker stock however it isn’t justified with recent investment.

Gloucester 10 route SHOULD be due a new batch this year as it has hit the usual 6/7 year replacement age. God knows where the previous stock will go..

 

[goldisgood]

Yes I would certainly agree that Swindon deserves new Single decker stock however it isn’t justified with recent investment.

Gloucester 10 route SHOULD be due a new batch this year as it has hit the usual 6/7 year replacement age. God knows where the previous stock will go..

If the 10 gets it Oxfordshire should really get the S1/S2 and S5 renewed. With the ZEZ confirmed as not coming, but the LEZ possibly being upgraded to Euro 6 they need new buses or retrofits.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes I would certainly agree that Swindon deserves new Single decker stock however it isn’t justified with recent investment.

Gloucester 10 route SHOULD be due a new batch this year as it has hit the usual 6/7 year replacement age. God knows where the previous stock will go..

If the 10 gets it Oxfordshire should really get the S1/S2 and S5 renewed. With the ZEZ confirmed as not coming, but the LEZ possibly being upgraded to Euro 6 they need new buses or retrofits.

I’d suggested that the 66/S6 fleet would be good to upgrade the 49/51 and that might still be an option with the 10 fleet.

The Oxford To Witney/Bicester services are probably overdue and I’d expect something soon (though been saying that for a year or two).

Swindon’s iffy collection of Darts does need some replacement but I can’t see new vehicles. More likely some pre-enjoyed e200s from some other OpCo

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Well I'd have thought the Oxford Tube would get new coaches as it's usually been every 5 years this high-frequency coach service gets new coaches. It'll be interesting to see what the types are, though. So effectively the Wantage routes get a brand-new vehicle added !