Stagecoach East Scotland

[overthewater]

As expected nearly all the Edinburgh buses are running full, However the X57 is also getting good numbers as it has space.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

As expected nearly all the Edinburgh buses are running full, However the X57 is also getting good numbers as it has space.

The X57 just seems to be plugging a Halbeath gap. Not sure what the overall benefit of this is over say having increased frequencies on the other Halbeath routes.

X55’s are consistently full now at peak times. This will be a problem in the long run.

Certainly a growing case for deckers on the X55 and the Oxford Tube Panorama’s on the X59/A when they become available. Might result in less traffic over the Forth Road Bridge though.

 

[overthewater]

The X57 just seems to be plugging a Halbeath gap. Not sure what the overall benefit of this is over say having increased frequencies on the other Halbeath routes.

X55’s are consistently full now at peak times. This will be a problem in the long run.

Certainly a growing case for deckers on the X55 and the Oxford Tube Panorama’s on the X59/A when they become available. Might result in less traffic over the Forth Road Bridge though.

X57 is providing seats when the X59 and X61 comes in full. I agree the x57 would be better going via Rosyth.

I suspect come next march or April they will reintroduced that extra bus in the morning and make the X55 every 15min around 5pm again.

 

[computerSaysNo]

X57 is providing seats when the X59 and X61 comes in full. I agree the x57 would be better going via Rosyth.

I suspect come next march or April they will reintroduced that extra bus in the morning and make the X55 every 15min around 5pm again.

Wouldn't it be better running X57 from Dunfermline via say Halbeath Road and Linburn Road, to get a better spread of Dunfermline than just the X55?

 

[overthewater]

ldn't it be better running X57 from Dunfermline via say Halbeath Road and Linburn Road, to get a better spread of Dunfermline than just the X55?

No one wants to go around duloch going into Dunfermline.

 

[computerSaysNo]

No one wants to go around duloch going into Dunfermline.

Apart from maybe the people who live there?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Apart from maybe the people who live there?

Which in commercial terms is not many.

Any service to Duloch Park may as well terminate there. You won’t get many wanting to take the detour round there if coming to or from the bus station from Edinburgh. It’d be slower than waiting for the subsequent X55.

For the people that live there wanting to go into the centre of Dunfermline that’s what the local buses are for.

 

[PG]

Any service to Duloch Park may as well terminate there. You won’t get many wanting to take the detour round there if coming to or from the bus station from Edinburgh. It’d be slower than waiting for the subsequent X55.

Being pragmatic though it might be the better choice as you risk ariving somewhat later if that X55 is full up and you can't board!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Being pragmatic though it might be the better choice as you risk ariving somewhat later if that X55 is full up and you can't board!

True, but I would suggest if this issue with overcrowding on the X55 continues (which it inevitably will) then the obvious solution would be more X55’s rather than using the X57 as a scapegoat.

 

[Fifescottish]

Don’t think the X57 has been on time since it started, totally unreliable and doomed to failure already!

 

[overthewater]

Don’t think the X57 has been on time since it started, totally unreliable and doomed to failure already!

To be fair most of the X55, X59, X61 haven't been on time either. Edinburgh has been a nightmare, we will have to wait till January to see what it's really like.

 

[computerSaysNo]

True, but I would suggest if this issue with overcrowding on the X55 continues (which it inevitably will) then the obvious solution would be more X55’s rather than using the X57 as a scapegoat.

I just mean, the chances of everyone in Dunfermline who takes the bus to Edinburgh happening to live on the X55 route and nowhere else is, I would guess, zero; they're going to be living all over Dunfermline. Anyone not on the X55 route is going to have to either travel to the bus station to get the X55 (which might well mean spending the first part of their journey travelling away from Edinburgh), or get an orbital bus and risk the X55 being full or the connection being bad, or they'll just drive the whole way. If a second Edinburgh service took a different route out of Dunfermline it would reduce the number of people having to do the above as most people would have to travel a shorter distance to get to a bus stop with an Edinburgh service.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I just mean, the chances of everyone in Dunfermline who takes the bus to Edinburgh happening to live on the X55 route and nowhere else is, I would guess, zero; they're going to be living all over Dunfermline.

Which is why you terminate the second bus at Duloch Park. If the X57 was amended to serve a larger area without going near the Bus Station this should suffice. The slow route via Halbeath makes it unattractive to use.

If the proposed station at Halbeath gets the go ahead it will change this market slightly anyway. Areas like Duloch Park which are not clearly near to a railway would be better focused on.

A lot of people in parts of Dunfermline and the surrounding area will drive to Halbeath as well so there’s that to consider. If you failed to balance that adequately it would be commercially risky.

 

[alan25]

Bus Lists (https://www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk/) reports that the E200MMCs at 11.8m length have 43 seats and the BZLs (don't know the length) have 41. So not a major decrease but a decrease nonetheless. I'm not entirely sure standing capacity really matters as everyone just crowds around the front door anyway and stops anyone else getting on even if there's more room further back.
For comparison purposes I also looked up Stagecoach PantherLE (I don't know the length), which seat 53, and Lothian Buses Evora (12.9m), which seat 49.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2025 ==


I thought of the E200MMC XLB but this has gone from the Alexander Dennis website, and Wikipedia doesn't list the number of seats in the New Zealand examples. I know the B8RLE chassis can be built as tri-axle but I'm not sure if it's available with any bus bodies.

My question is then why can’t they get evora’s for the 99?

 

[computerSaysNo]

My question is then why can’t they get evora’s for the 99?

I think the intention was a "premium" bus for a (financially) well-performing route, and at the moment "premium" means electric. The maximum length of electric buses always seems to be less than that of the equipment diesel bus, apparently due to weight limits. I'll look up what the maximum length advertised for a single deck BZL (Volvo), E200EV (Alexander Dennis) and whatever the name of the single deck electric product from Wright is and report back.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2025 ==

Well I stand corrected.
Volvo BZL single deck can be built at lengths of 9m, 9.7m, 10.35m, 10.8m, 11.3m, 12.1m and 13 meters according to Volvo website.
ADL E200EV can be 9.9m, 10.9m or 11.7 meters according to ADL website.
Wrightbus Kite can be 10.9, 11.6, and 12.5m. Sorry, easiest source I could find for this was Wikipedia.

 

[alan25]

I think the intention was a "premium" bus for a (financially) well-performing route, and at the moment "premium" means electric. The maximum length of electric buses always seems to be less than that of the equipment diesel bus, apparently due to weight limits. I'll look up what the maximum length advertised for a single deck BZL (Volvo), E200EV (Alexander Dennis) and whatever the name of the single deck electric product from Wright is and report back.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2025 ==

Well I stand corrected.
Volvo BZL single deck can be built at lengths of 9m, 9.7m, 10.35m, 10.8m, 11.3m, 12.1m and 13 meters according to Volvo website.
ADL E200EV can be 9.9m, 10.9m or 11.7 meters according to ADL website.
Wrightbus Kite can be 10.9, 11.6, and 12.5m. Sorry, easiest source I could find for this was Wikipedia.

It’s alright. Cheers for the information! Of course stagecoach could always try a kite but they order from wright once in a blue moon

 

[overthewater]

I had the pleasure to try out the X57 from the park n rides and as expect, it hoovered up passengers from both site and the forth bridge. It doing what it suppose to be doing. Saying that I do agree that maybe they should have X57A so the bus does aloop IE Edinburgh - Ferrytoll - Rosyth - Duloch - Halbeath - Edinburgh.

 

[DJ_9SZ]

I think the intention was a "premium" bus for a (financially) well-performing route, and at the moment "premium" means electric. The maximum length of electric buses always seems to be less than that of the equipment diesel bus, apparently due to weight limits. I'll look up what the maximum length advertised for a single deck BZL (Volvo), E200EV (Alexander Dennis) and whatever the name of the single deck electric product from Wright is and report back.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2025 ==

Well I stand corrected.
Volvo BZL single deck can be built at lengths of 9m, 9.7m, 10.35m, 10.8m, 11.3m, 12.1m and 13 meters according to Volvo website.
ADL E200EV can be 9.9m, 10.9m or 11.7 meters according to ADL website.
Wrightbus Kite can be 10.9, 11.6, and 12.5m. Sorry, easiest source I could find for this was Wikipedia.

I thought another factor might be this guidance/rules from Tay Bridge Control regarding what is defined as a bus that is permitted to cross the bridge, when it's open to cars and single decker buses only:

Single Decker Buses (defined as 11 ton 45-49 seats and low floor 9.5 ton 42 seats)

Bridge Restriction Advice

I've seen a couple times that Moffat & Williamson 77's, Mellors, in both directions have to wait in the bridge car park, and they'll send one longer bus across to Dundee to pick up for both directions, then split the passengers back on the other side of the bridge.

At least Stagecoach should always be able to keep the same level of service on all their Fife to Dundee routes now that they are all single deck operated.

Funny thing is I seen a 9700DD on the 40 the other day.

 

[voidwxrranty]

I've seen a couple times that Moffat & Williamson 77's, Mellors, in both directions have to wait in the bridge car park, and they'll send one longer bus across to Dundee to pick up for both directions, then split the passengers back on the other side of the bridge.

yes. i have seen the same myself. the Mellors actually look quite funny trying to masquerade in with cars in the car park

 

[DJ_9SZ]

I wonder why Stagecoach have never considered bidding for the 13 and 60 in Edinburgh city centre, they could have linked those in by having three single deckers doing an X55 or X59 to Edinburgh, doing their tenders throughout the day, swapping drivers from express at the bus station, then having the buses do an X55/59 back in the afternoon/evening, would link in with the peak time general direction of travel.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I wonder why Stagecoach have never considered bidding for the 13 and 60 in Edinburgh city centre, they could have linked those in by having three single deckers doing an X55 or X59 to Edinburgh, doing their tenders throughout the day, swapping drivers from express at the bus station, then having the buses do an X55/59 back in the afternoon/evening, would link in with the peak time general direction of travel.

This would work for the 60 but the 13 runs too long for the buses to run any meaningful peak runs. First buses are about 0630 and its last finish around 1930.

 

[Stan Drews]

I wonder why Stagecoach have never considered bidding for the 13 and 60 in Edinburgh city centre, they could have linked those in by having three single deckers doing an X55 or X59 to Edinburgh, doing their tenders throughout the day, swapping drivers from express at the bus station, then having the buses do an X55/59 back in the afternoon/evening, would link in with the peak time general direction of travel.

They’ve bid for Edinburgh tenders in the past. How do you know they haven’t considered bidding for the 13 or 60.

 

[alan25]

They’ve bid for Edinburgh tenders in the past. How do you know they haven’t considered bidding for the 13 or 60.

Did not know they had! Can you elaborate on their attempts?

 

[Stan Drews]

Did not know they had! Can you elaborate on their attempts?

Not sure what elaboration you are seeking, but when I worked there we did bid for some work.

 

[DJ_9SZ]

They’ve bid for Edinburgh tenders in the past. How do you know they haven’t considered bidding for the 13 or 60.

Just a guess! They haven't been successful with the 13/60/68 etc. Thought it would be logical if they did, makes sense that they have done in the past then, but other operators have undercut them.

 

[alan25]

Not sure what elaboration you are seeking, but when I worked there we did bid for some work.

What time period was this and were there more things intended?

 

[overthewater]

As people may or may not know Scotrail are planning to close parts of Main line between Dalmeny and Haymarket thus affecting the Fife circular line for a one week period in the middle of January. As part of this Stagecoach plans to introduce an extra service to help passengers.

Fife Electrification and track re-railing: buses replace trains between Edinburgh Gateway and Inverkeithing from Saturday 17 to Sunday 25 January

www.scotrail.co.uk

• 748 Inverkeithing Rail Station – Ferrytoll Park & Ride – Edinburgh Bus Station every 20 minutes

 

[computerSaysNo]

As people may or may not know Scotrail are planning to close parts of Main line between Dalmeny and Haymarket thus affecting the Fife circular line for a one week period in the middle of January. As part of this Stagecoach plans to introduce an extra service to help passengers.

This could be a good opportunity for Stagecoach if they increased their capacity appropriately during that week, but I suspect they won't. Single deck coaches already leave people behind in the peaks so Stagecoach would need to either transfer double deck coaches in from elsewhere or run duplicates covering the busiest route sections; I can fully see them not doing either. To be fair, I don't know how many spare coaches there are in South and North Scotland on a weekday, in either Stagecoach or Citylink livery.
Do we know what vehicles will be allocated to the Inverkeithing service and where they will come from?

 

[Resuwen]

Maybe spare double deck coaches from the end of Megabus services

 

[overthewater]

They are they putting on 748, as mention in the post I made.