Stagecoach East Scotland

[mbonwick]

For crying out loud, read what I wrote!

You can have 46 seats in an 11.9m E200MMC, but ONLY if you go with ADLs standard seating layout, which includes tip-ups in the wheelchair bay.
Stagecoach have their own group-standard seating layout, without tipups in the wheelchair bay, which gives 41 or 42 seats in 11.9m E200MMC.

Just because East Scotland is mostly (not all by any means) DDA compliant, doesn't mean that the whole of the Stagecoach empire is in a similar situation. There is a world outside of Fife - so I ask again, why should they focus on replacing tri-axle Omnilinks, which cannot be universally deployed elsewhere, when there are places that need more urgent attention to comply with new regulations?!

 

[overthewater]

I can say the same to you.

so I ask again, why should they focus on replacing tri-axle Omnilinks,

Like I said there are no plans for replacement BUT Discussions will need to start to see what if anything could replace the fleet. The reason their should be forcing on the route is because its a Flagship route. If there buying buses just to opeate on the NEW bridge, it kinda make a mockery of the old bridge being used as a Public transport only.

I suggested 2017 could be a good starting point. By then the fleet will be 10 years old and something will need to be done. IE either sent away for overhaul and upgrade or new stock. Either way Discussions would need to start shortly. I'm under no illusion buses don't grow trees, are not cheap and need long term planning.

I said E Scotland, nearly everything in Perthshire and Angus is DDA expect for school work and said rules don't apply to closed contracts. That still 18 months away, before double deckers need to comply.

Singles all need to be change within 4 months, Were not talking about First group here. Stagecoach have a well managed plan to covert everything to DDA within the time frame.

which cannot be universally deployed

Its been already said a bus has been sent north for testing. Cumbernauld could use them? Of course there doing the smart thing, there had talks and trail runs, to see if the buses are able to operate the route or routes.

When did Stagecoach bring in their own group-standard seating layout, on the 11.8m E200MMC?

 

[robertclark125]

East Scotland also doesn't have the problem of having vehicles on loan from Firstgroup, to allow a former Firstgroup operation to be worked. South West has, and obviously cascades and newer rolling stock will be needed there.

In any case, East Scotland has had a tendancy in recent years to have a 10 year programme for single deckers before they're ousted to other work. That won't apply when Dunfermline receives the new vehicles for the 19, as they're replacing single deckers which are 6 years old. In addition, Fife had new single deckers in 2014 for the Kirkcaldy Glenrothes corridor, and in 2012 for the 99 group.

Fife has had quite an upgrade in single deck kit recently, to which the Strathtay area has benefited a little in cascades.So, clearly, it's someone elses turn before it's East Scotland's turn again.

 

[overthewater]

Why is having; to loans buses from Firstgroup, to keep Plymouth going even being brought in to this? Its because there bought the depot, Its been two weeks. This again prove what I said it will take a while for new buses to be built etc.

If buses need replacing, then buses need replacing it doesn't matter who turn it is.
Strathtay has benefited from lots of new Double deckers.

Most of those six year old buses from Route 19 have been used up to 20 hours a day 7 days a week, and will need some TLC.

But the question in hand is about Flagship route to Edinburgh, and if your said its a 10 year programme for single deckers, then the buses on the 55 will need to be overhauled of replaced, one thing is for certain there need to start talking about it in some form.

 

[mbonwick]

Stagecoach have always had their own "standard" layout for vehicles, just like many of the big groups. It's nothing new.
The 11.8m E200MMC is a direct replacement for the E300. Given they're the same size, it doesn't take a genius to realise seating will be similar.

There is no need for "discussions" about new vehicles to start now. For inclusion in the 2017/8 order, a bid to Kirkcaldy based on route profits (not specific vehicles) will need to be made by around this time next year. East Scotland HO will then, in conjunction with the depot, come up with a suitable plan (vehicle quantity, type, specifications etc). This will then be submitted to Perth HQ around November, with a final order in place with manufacturers around January.

Finally, the reason that Plymouth has been brought up is to demonstate to you that Stagecoach vehicle policy is not just about constantly upgrading flagship routes, but also getting the maximum usage out of existing vehicles. Sadly, you've failed to see the point - although in this case its irrelevent as Plymouth is already planned to be sorted by January with new vehicles.

 

[overthewater]

Wires may be getting crossed here, current stock which is about to replaced
are 12.8m E300 with 46 seaters, Ie not standard spec. I just cant see how Alx dennies can still get 46 seats in a bus with 1 meter cut off. ( there suppose to be straight swap, so wire crossed etc )

"Not specific vehicles"
Why do compaines test run buses for? Stagecoach have been know to do this aswell. 41 seaters are no good to man or best to replace 51 seaters; Double deckers going around new bridge is also not an option since the new road layout out of new road system.

Can Scania Citywide LE be replacement? I doubt there be buy stock if the air con is awful still . The Vanhools in aberdeen are not great either.

Also if Bluebird takes a few https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/21434295302/in/dateposted/
it may need to find some replacement sooner rather than later.

Getting maximum usage out of existing vehicles and then using Plymouth as ref is rather poor, since plymonth is all mans to deck right now, anything spare is being sent. It not my fault I never understood this, and you even said its irrelevant. I grasp how near the edges route end up with fleets of buses which are mid life to keep costs down.

 

[mbonwick]

The 12.8m MAN E300 does seat 46 in standard Stagecoach spec - it's essentially an extra row of 4 seats over the 11.8m ADL E300.
How ADL fit 46 in 11.8m of E200MMC is by having seats over the front wheelarches (so no luggage pen) and by 3 tip-up seats in the wheelchair bay.
Both of which Stagecoach are not fans of.

Just because depots don't initially ask for specific vehicles, doesn't mean that things are so vague throughout the whole process. As I said, when regional HO have decided which bids they intend to submit to Perth, they will then look at which vehicles they want as part of that bid. Vehicle trials may form a part of the selection process where there are significant differences to current types.

I honestly cannot see Stagecoach opting for more "non-standard" types here - my feeling is that the 55 will either (eventually) go to coach operation, or will be rerouted so deckers can be used, or will simply get standard E300s with a frequency increase.

 

[ChrisPJ]

If Stagey want a higher capacity low floor single decker that is longer than a normal 2 axle rigid I'm sure there are other manufacturers out there already building something similar in left hand drive. Isn't there a tri axle Citaro variant for example?

 

[mbonwick]

I'm sure there's plenty of options out there - but I really cannot see Stagecoach wanting to go for them.
That's not to say we won't suddenly get a curveball from ADL with a tri-axle design though...

 

[overthewater]

Getting back to the Service changes;

The following is only what the company wants to tell us at the moment
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/timet...x?hootPostID=20dc9a345ef49de727921d58a38888d5

Consultation IS NOW CLOSED.

Service changes will take place 23 November 2015. The majority of the changes can be seen in the above link. NOTE, I do expect there to be a few minor change inline with customer feedback. I also expect other changes to happening which were not put out to constitution.

 

[Volvodart]

The interesting registrations are through on VOSA today. There is a X55 /X56 which it states is replacing the Megabus M91 between Edinburgh and Perth. The X51 Dunfermline to Livingston is now express and a new service X52 from Glenrothes to Livingston for the Christmas period only.

 

[overthewater]

The interesting registrations are through on VOSA today. There is a X55 /X56 which it states is replacing the Megabus M91 between Edinburgh and Perth. The X51 Dunfermline to Livingston is now express and a new service X52 from Glenrothes to Livingston for the Christmas period only.

Good to see the X52 appearing, I can understand why its just testing running the route for the run up to xmas. In January and February it can a bit quite.


I did say

I also expect other changes to happening which were not put out to constitution.

Thats the M91 getting the chop.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would assume that a version of the M91 will remain north of Perth

 

[overthewater]

I would assume that a version of the M91 will remain north of Perth

Only part of it as a shuttle

( Main section in its own thread now)

 

[overthewater]

A few notes:

Service 51 is now getting X added to it and will also serve SQ Tesco.

X56 is now a peak journey from Kelty - Ferrytoll - Edinburgh.

X55 is going up to Kelty and perth, its kinda stupid if the M91 will operate with fast journeys

 

[Fifescottish]

The problem with the M91 is that it doesnt tun frequently enough now. If you work in Perth you cant get there before 9.

Add to that the expensive fares, hopefully the X55 will do well.

Will be good to see the timetables when they issue them.

 

[overthewater]

The problem with the M91 is that it doesnt tun frequently enough now. If you work in Perth you cant get there before 9.

Add to that the expensive fares, hopefully the X55 will do well.

Will be good to see the timetables when they issue them.

Buses will leave Dunfermline at 07.02, 0900, 09.35, 35 mins past hour 1435, 1635, 17.50 and 19.10

NOTE I don't know how many will operate to Perth, but i would say most will.

 

[Fifescottish]

Bit disappointing there is only one bus before 9am

 

[overthewater]

Bit disappointing there is only one bus before 9am

Especial since Head office, do know about the issues on the route.

 

[Stan Drews]

Especial since Head office, do know about the issues on the route.

Don't forget that Citylink are cutting back on poorly performing routes, so I wouldn't expect Stagecoach to simply replicate the same loss making service!

 

[overthewater]

Don't forget that Citylink are cutting back on poorly performing routes, so I wouldn't expect Stagecoach to simply replicate the same loss making service!

But the problem for the regular passengers was about getting into work for around 08.30 ish or round about that time; Which has been made clear.

To be fair some of the routes should have been killed of years ago. M91 is just backwards in this day and age. Its prices are extremely high, but with stagecoach taking over the megarider will provide good value for money and improve access for many people in Kinross.

 

[Fifescottish]

I have travelled between Dunfermline and Perth for over 10 years now. When I first started the bus used to sometimes be full in Milnathort. Recently you could count the passengers on two hands. The problem....

- the lack of buses (used to be 2 buses, then 3 now only 1 in the AM peak)

- the fares! 10 years ago it was £25 for a 10 journey, last winter it went to £57 then was "reduced" back to £49.50!!

- punctuality...the 1720 or 1810 from Perth...you are lucky if they are on time once a week!!

Citylink have killed this service and hopefully it might improve now!

 

[overthewater]

I have travelled between Dunfermline and Perth for over 10 years now. When I first started the bus used to sometimes be full in Milnathort. Recently you could count the passengers on two hands. The problem....

- the lack of buses (used to be 2 buses, then 3 now only 1 in the AM peak)
- the fares! 10 years ago it was £25 for a 10 journey, last winter it went to £57 then was "reduced" back to £49.50!!
- punctuality...the 1720 or 1810 from Perth...you are lucky if they are on time once a week!!
Citylink have killed this service and hopefully it might improve now!

From November it will only be £42 a week, East Scotland Megarider, while users in Kinross will get Tayside Megarider £27 which will be a bargain. Your right Citylink are so bloody awful at running to time.

 

[Fifescottish]

The tayside megarider currently allows travel into Fife on the 56 and 36, presumably they arent going to add the X55 to the list?

 

[overthewater]

The tayside megarider currently allows travel into Fife on the 56 and 36, presumably they arent going to add the X55 to the list?

With it only valid at present to Halbeath P&R, Even if there don't add it, you could always by a Dunfermline Megarider and the overall cost would still only be £38 which is still good value.

 

[Fifescottish]

Apparently this doesnt stop at Halbeath P&R only Ferrytoll. Why would anybody want to travel south to a p&r from Dunfermline to have to then travel through Dunfermline to head to Perth.....crazy!!

 

[Stan Drews]

Apparently this doesnt stop at Halbeath P&R only Ferrytoll. Why would anybody want to travel south to a p&r from Dunfermline to have to then travel through Dunfermline to head to Perth.....crazy!!

Eh!

The X55 goes through Dunfermline, so anyone from there doesn't need to go to Ferrytoll to catch it.
If there are people coming from central Fife etc on the X24/X26/X27 they can connect with the X55 in Dunfermline, or perhaps Halbeath College, as I'd imagine it wil stop there.
Looks like some journey times will be lengthened, but more places will be added to the Stagecoach express network and the benefits of their much cheaper megariders etc, so I think the advantages will outweigh the disadvantages for the vast majority.

 

[Fifescottish]

If you live at Duloch for example the bus wont serve that area so you have to drive to catch it. In that instance halbeath is much more convenient.

Also an x56 that misses out dunfermline

 

[overthewater]

If you live at Duloch for example the bus wont serve that area so you have to drive to catch it. In that instance halbeath is much more convenient.

Also an x56 that misses out dunfermline

Like I said the X56 is peak jounrey for Kinross and Kelly people

Either way three coaches will need to be found for the new route. I wonder how many kinross passengers will just go to the Kinross park and ride and catch the M90

https://www.stagecoachbus.com/tis-service-update-details.aspx?id=7221

* New X55: Edinburgh - Ferrytoll P&R - Dunfermline - Kelty - Kinross - Milnathort - M90 - Bridge of Earn - Perth

* New X56: Edinburgh – Ferrytoll – Kelty – Kinross – Perth

We are pleased to expand our Stagecoach Express network to link Edinburgh and Perth. Our new Express City Connect X55 will offer links up to every hour between Perth (Broxden Park & Ride and city centre bus station), Bridge of Earn, Milnathort, Kinross, Kelty, Dunfermline, Rosyth, Ferrytoll Park & Ride and Edinburgh operating on a limited stop basis throughout.

Between Dunfermline and Edinburgh the frequency is enhanced to every 20 minutes (up to every 15 at peak periods). All journeys operate via the same routes and with the same stopping arrangements.

Our Perth journeys will be operated by our high quality coaches, complete with WiFi, air conditioning and on board toilet where the shorter Dunfermline to Edinburgh journeys will continue to be operated by our low floor single deckers with WiFi and buggy access. All journeys are operated by wheelchair accessible vehicles.

For commuters a new daily return journey will operate on service X56 offering faster links from points north of Kelty.

On Sundays the X55 will continue to offer a 30 minute frequency between Dunfermline and Edinburgh with a two hourly Perth service operating.

Seats on services X55 and X56 can be booked to connect with Citylink and Megabus services from Perth and Edinburgh. Visit citylink.co.uk or uk.megabus.com for more details. Normal Stagecoach tickets and concessionary travel cards are valid on the X55 and X56 within existing zones.

These new services replace the existing 55 and X55 services.

Full timetable information will be available from 26th October 2015.

 

[mbonwick]

Either way three coaches will need to be found for the new route.https://www.stagecoachbus.com/tis-service-update-details.aspx?id=7221

Plenty of choice of coaches - Bluebird are in the process of replacing their 07/59 reg B12BTs on Buchan Link work, and Cumbria have 4 59 reg B7Rs awaiting transfer to Scotland.