Stafford to Gatwick

[lj9090]

In a few weeks time I need to get from Stafford to Gatwick; just one way. With the new larger Gold Card area I've spotted this ticket that seems suitable:
OFF-PEAK DAY S CDS Route ✠SOUTHERN&LON MID £26.85

What route is this actually valid for? Routing engines are showing it's only valid via the west london line and the much quicker option of London Midland to Euston & then Southern to Gatwick is not shown as valid. I'd have thought it would be because both involve just Southern & London Midland trains but evidently not.

 

[First class]

In a few weeks time I need to get from Stafford to Gatwick; just one way. With the new larger Gold Card area I've spotted this ticket that seems suitable:
OFF-PEAK DAY S CDS Route ✠SOUTHERN&LON MID £26.85

What route is this actually valid for? Routing engines are showing it's only valid via the west london line and the much quicker option of London Midland to Euston & then Southern to Gatwick is not shown as valid. I'd have thought it would be because both involve just Southern & London Midland trains but evidently not.

Shows as valid on the LM site.

Because via London is the slower route, you have to select "more options", enter via "London Euston", and then select the two tick boxes
Southern & London Midland only
SOUTHERN&LON MID

 

[yorkie]

What route is this actually valid for?

It's not a route restricted ticket; it's a TOC restricted ticket. Therefore, it is valid on any permitted route but only on LM or Southern operated services.

Routing engines are showing it's only valid via the west london line and the much quicker option of London Midland to Euston & then Southern to Gatwick is not shown as valid. I'd have thought it would be because both involve just Southern & London Midland trains but evidently not.

It's valid that way, and the cross-London marker is evidence that this is intentional. I was able to successfully obtain an itinerary via London on the East Coast website.

It is not essential to obtain an itinerary to validate a ticket (though, conversely, an itinerary does validate a ticket via a route that might otherwise not be valid) however in this case an itinerary can be obtained.

The only problems you may experience with this ticket is if you use the lightly loaded trains operated by Southern, on Southern's red Gatwick Express route, which have about 2 empty coaches at the front of them, and only anything approaching a normal load in the rear coach. These near-empty 'ghost' trains are Driver Only Operated, and inspections are very rare, but I've known 3 people be charged "Southern supplements" by Southern gateline staff (the tickets may or may not work the gates at Victoria so a manual check may occur at Victoria), but all were subsequently refunded and additionally compensated:

The issue was not just with the NOT GATWICK EXP tickets, but also the SOUTHERN ONLY tickets which are approximately the same price, but likewise significantly cheaper than ANY PERMITTED.

"Gatwick Express" gateline staff at Victoria would sell you a supplement if you had a SOUTHERN ONLY wanted to travel on a "Gatwick Express" branded train (for example at 4am when trains aren't as frequent, and travelling to Gatwick Airport).

This happened to me in January 2012 - read about it in detail there if you wish, but the end result was that I not only got the supplement refunded, but also the SOUTHERN ONLY ticket that I'd originally bought.

I'm firmly of the opinion that the NOT GATWICK EXP and ANY PERMITTED tickets are the same thing and therefore the former should be scrapped, and the latter re-priced to the same value as the former, as it is essentially a rip off.

Whether you choose to take these lightly-loaded trains and enjoy a coach to yourself is up to you... (I know what I'd do if it was me )

 

[lj9090]

Ah, I'd just been trying Southern & SWT. I've fiddled with the tickboxes and managed to get Southern to offer it now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Whether you choose to take these lightly-loaded trains and enjoy a coach to yourself is up to you... (I know what I'd do if it was me )

Well, I haven't been on a 442 for many years, would be nice to see one again!

The other option I've got is VT Advance 1st, which is currently got fairly good availability at £40. Tempting for the free nibbles - how flexible is the & Connections part though, would that be valid on Southern's GatEx?

 

[PermitToTravel]

Yeah, as long as you don't select a reserveable train when booking (i.e., select a Gatwick Express train when you book and you'll be fine, it won't increase the price)

 

[yorkie]

The other option I've got is VT Advance 1st, which is currently got fairly good availability at £40. Tempting for the free nibbles - how flexible is the & Connections part though, would that be valid on Southern's GatEx?

A Virgin & Connections ticket is valid on the booked Virgin Trains service and "appropriate" connecting services.

(There is an additional, unpublished rule which doesn't form part of the contract, which states that 'reservable' trains are not to be taken unless you have a reservation. Some of the Southern services on the Mainline & Coastway routes from Victoria may be considered to be reservable, even though they're not really reserveable. Therefore to be safe, it may be best to stick to Southern's Gatwick Express route, as they're definitely not reservable ).

 

[lj9090]

Well, damn, I picked up the VWC&Connection tickets this morning and it's printed two reservation coupons as it put me on the reservable 10:46 out of Victoria.
I did have a bit of a play with via and avoid points, but could only manage to get timings via Thameslink rather than forcing different train out of VIC. I think being totally unreserved that would still have allowed me to go via Victoria and any train from there, but I really didn't want to take the risk and be stuck taking the slower route.

There's seems to be lots, and lots, and lots of threads about &Connections and it seems this remains a bit of a grey area. From what I can gather this routing is not supposed to reserve trains on the &Connections leg but does if the train happens to be reservable, so it would have flexibility were it not for booking engines. I realise being DOO I could probably jump on the 10:44 GatEx and nothing would really happen, but am I obliged to take the 10:46 now I have a coupon for it?

(What's the situation with the barriers at Victoria anyway - is it like Waterloo where you can sneak from platform to platform once through?)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh. Had another play and via Stratham Common would have got me what I wanted. Too late now!

 

[talldave]

(What's the situation with the barriers at Victoria anyway - is it like Waterloo where you can sneak from platform to platform once through?)

Gatwick Express and non Gatwick Express services are isolated - so once you're through a Gatwick Express barrier, you can't get to a Southern service and vice versa.