Staff using phones

[Timmyd]

What are the rules on gateline and platform staff using phones when on duty? I know how all frustrated we all are with the amount of fare evasion, but I’m amazed how often the staff who supervise the barriers just seem to be permitted to scroll on their phones while supposedly performing safety-critical roles. I saw the same with Elizabeth Line platform staff at the weekend too.

I did wonder if they were doing online training (which wouldn’t be acceptable anyway) but from what I can see it seems not anyway. This was a zone 1 station yesterday afternoon - as you can see he’s scrolling instagram or TikTok or similar. You could take the picture all over the system every day. Is this permitted? And if not, why is it so widely tolerated?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Attending a gateline is not a safety critical activity. If no customers require assistance - and your photo would suggest not - I’m not sure what the issue is, frankly.

Could you share your workplace so that I can come and take a photo of you whilst you’re in a less busy period, and then ask if it would be acceptable on the Internet? Thanks.

 

[djw1]

I quite often see District line train operators visibly using their phone when the train is pulling into the platform in ATO. I think it’s especially bad because customers can easily notice it on the platform.

(I’m not saying this is only an issue on District as I am sure it isn’t, it’s just District is my main line)

 

[bluegoblin7]

Are they using their phone or is it their SID/OPOs?

Contrary to attending a gateline this is a safety critical activity and if you are certain that a member of staff is using their phone whilst operating a train you should report this.

Of course if you are not certain then you could end up hauling a member of staff through a fact finding process without any basis.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have never ever seen a TO use their phone on the Tube, so I am surprised to see someone claim they see it "quite often".

 

[Watershed]

Attending a gateline is not a safety critical activity. If no customers require assistance - and your photo would suggest not - I’m not sure what the issue is, frankly.

Could you share your workplace so that I can come and take a photo of you whilst you’re in a less busy period, and then ask if it would be acceptable on the Internet? Thanks.

Is it permitted for LU staff to be using their personal phones whilst on duty? And if so, is that permitted whilst they're in public?

 

[boiledbeans2]

I have never ever seen a TO use their phone on the Tube, so I am surprised to see someone claim they see it "quite often".

Here's a famous multi-tasking example:

London Underground driver sacked after knitting and watching videos at the wheel

Footage shows the driver of the Northern Line train at Hendon Central station appearing distracted as pulled away from the stop in February.

metro.co.uk

 

[Segedunum]

Gatelines aren't safety critical and having done the job myself sometimes you'll not have much going on - so a quick look at your phone is really neither here nor there as long as you're actually ready to assist with a passenger or other situation as needed. Its not exactly "permitted" but you use your common sense. Plus as @bluegoblin7 says staff do get issued with work devices which will contain information necessary for the role.

What I do object to is when you find staff huddled in a corner watching videos or the like. I don't expect it to take several goes to get someone's attention or for there to be a blatant disinterest in the job. Like I say, I know how monotonous it can get but you need to at least look like you care.

 

[Timmyd]

Attending a gateline is not a safety critical activity. If no customers require assistance - and your photo would suggest not - I’m not sure what the issue is, frankly.

Could you share your workplace so that I can come and take a photo of you whilst you’re in a less busy period, and then ask if it would be acceptable on the Internet? Thanks.

Typical defensive answer that you get from LU staff on here. I work in a customer facing role for a major retailer. I can tell you that if I was sat on a checkout scrolling my phone, even if there was no customer there, I’d be fired. That’s what breaks are for. There’s no incentive for fare dodgers not to push through if the person responsible for a gateline isn’t supervising it.

To turn it round, if his role isn’t safety critical, why have the role at all? You don’t have people sat there on the Paris Metro or New York Subway so why is he needed here? Easy way to save a few quid for the few of us who still bother paying fares now.

 

[bahnause]

Typical defensive answer that you get from LU staff on here. I work in a customer facing role for a major retailer. I can tell you that if I was sat on a checkout scrolling my phone, even if there was no customer there, I’d be fired. That’s what breaks are for. There’s no incentive for fare dodgers not to push through if the person responsible for a gateline isn’t supervising it.

What is this comparison supposed to tell us? That, from now on, all employees of all employers should work in accordance with your employer’s guidelines?

I work in a safety-critical role in the rail sector. And I use my mobile phone frequently every day whilst at work. All relevant information is provided to us via various apps and websites. So there’s simply no getting round it. It’s all very well that you seem to manage at your workplace without regularly updated information, but that’s not the case in other sectors.

 

[Watershed]

What is this comparison supposed to tell us? That, from now on, all employees of all employers should work in accordance with your employer’s guidelines?

I work in a safety-critical role in the rail sector. And I use my mobile phone frequently every day whilst at work. All relevant information is provided to us via various apps and websites. So there’s simply no getting round it. It’s all very well that you seem to manage at your workplace without regularly updated information, but that’s not the case in other sectors.

I think there is a very big difference between using a work phone for work purposes, which is clearly fine and intended, and using a personal phone for non-work purposes whilst at work - which is sometimes allowed but not always.

It's curious that @bluegoblin7 has chosen not to clarify what LU's rules are on this. I say this genuinely because there are workplaces where personal use of devices is permitted provided it doesn't interfere with work duties, so I'm not rushing to any judgment as to whether or not the actions shown here are a breach of LU policies.

 

[Timmyd]

I think there is a very big difference between using a work phone for work purposes, which is clearly fine and intended, and using a personal phone for non-work purposes whilst at work - which is sometimes allowed but not always.

It's curious that @bluegoblin7 has chosen not to clarify what LU's rules are on this. I say this genuinely because there are workplaces where personal use of devices is permitted provided it doesn't interfere with work duties, so I'm not rushing to any judgment as to whether or not the actions shown here are a breach of LU policies.

That was an exactly the point of the original post, and I don’t understand why it’s escalated. As an interested and concerned passenger, I was interested in whether indeed use of personal devices for personal consumption of social media (which is evidently what’s happening here) is permitted while manning a gateline. I have taken care to obscure the individual employee in the photo

 

[AlterEgo]

To turn it round, if his role isn’t safety critical, why have the role at all?

Before we start, do you understand what safety critical means in a railway context? Because most railway employees are not safety critical.

 

[35B]

Attending a gateline is not a safety critical activity. If no customers require assistance - and your photo would suggest not - I’m not sure what the issue is, frankly.

Could you share your workplace so that I can come and take a photo of you whilst you’re in a less busy period, and then ask if it would be acceptable on the Internet? Thanks.

As a passenger on London Underground, my issue is when on duty customer facing staff are focused on each other or their devices, rather than paying attention to what is happening at the gate line. This is not about whether what they are doing is classified as “safety critical”*, but basic attention to detail and customer service (the two most important letters in the acronym “CSA”).

In discussions about ticketing, there’s been a lot of emphasis on the need for gatelines to process high numbers of people and the apparent unsuitability of scanned codes for this. What I find interesting is that this coexists with a culture in which keeping the crowd moving is not seen as a priority, and some staff focus anywhere but where their attention needs to be.

* - as an aside, the station I use most is Kings Cross St Pancras, and I sometimes observe the behaviour I complain about there. Given the specific history of that station, and the importance of station staff in an emergency, I find the tolerance of sloppy behaviour because the staff are not safety critical bemusing.

 

[bahnause]

As a passenger on London Underground, my issue is when on duty customer facing staff are focused on each other or their devices, rather than paying attention to what is happening at the gate line. This is not about whether what they are doing is classified as “safety critical”*, but basic attention to detail and customer service (the two most important letters in the acronym “CSA”).

In discussions about ticketing, there’s been a lot of emphasis on the need for gatelines to process high numbers of people and the apparent unsuitability of scanned codes for this. What I find interesting is that this coexists with a culture in which keeping the crowd moving is not seen as a priority, and some staff focus anywhere but where their attention needs to be.

It is always interesting to read how seemingly every casual observer appears to be able to carry out any task better than the trained staff member currently involved.

For years, we in the rail industry had to put up with comments about how outdated the technology we used was and how poor the information provided to passengers was. Now we are systematically equipping staff with electronic devices to improve the flow of information. But are we now supposed to stop using these devices because they give customers ‘a bad impression’?

 

[Daniel]

It's curious that @bluegoblin7 has chosen not to clarify what LU's rules are on this. I say this genuinely because there are workplaces where personal use of devices is permitted provided it doesn't interfere with work duties, so I'm not rushing to any judgment as to whether or not the actions shown here are a breach of LU policies.

Obviously I wouldn't directly quote any internal documents, so from memory my understanding of the policy would be:

"Employees are ordinarily permitted to make limited use of their own computer or mobile device on TfL premises where it does not interfere with productivity of the employee or TfL’s business, and does not inhibit any TfL activity"

 

[8ace]

Typical defensive answer that you get from LU staff on here. I work in a customer facing role for a major retailer. I can tell you that if I was sat on a checkout scrolling my phone, even if there was no customer there, I’d be fired. That’s what breaks are for. There’s no incentive for fare dodgers not to push through if the person responsible for a gateline isn’t supervising it.

To turn it round, if his role isn’t safety critical, why have the role at all? You don’t have people sat there on the Paris Metro or New York Subway so why is he needed here? Easy way to save a few quid for the few of us who still bother paying fares now.

If a fare dodger is going to push through or vault the barriers, the staff member is got going to risk getting assaulted attempting to apprehend them. The fact that they are looking at ticktocks on their blower is neither here nor there, the determined fare dodger will do it regardless.

 

[35B]

It is always interesting to read how seemingly every casual observer appears to be able to carry out any task better than the trained staff member currently involved.

For years, we in the rail industry had to put up with comments about how outdated the technology we used was and how poor the information provided to passengers was. Now we are systematically equipping staff with electronic devices to improve the flow of information. But are we now supposed to stop using these devices because they give customers ‘a bad impression’?

I make no pretence at being able to do anyone's job better than they do. But when staff are at a gate, focused on a screen or their colleague, and it is difficult or impossible to get their attention to deal with the issue that should be addressed by observation, I think it's reasonable for the customer to consider that something's not working.

Now, if I'm wrong and those staff are actually focused on work devices/work communications, then I hold my hands up and agree that the staff should not be blamed. It does however look rather worse for the organisation that employs them.

 

[AlterEgo]

It is always interesting to read how seemingly every casual observer appears to be able to carry out any task better than the trained staff member currently involved.

For years, we in the rail industry had to put up with comments about how outdated the technology we used was and how poor the information provided to passengers was. Now we are systematically equipping staff with electronic devices to improve the flow of information. But are we now supposed to stop using these devices because they give customers ‘a bad impression’?

Are you watching TikTok on duty or are you reading safety notices? I wager not the former. Staff who are public facing should not be seen watching videos for their amusement on duty.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you watching TikTok on duty or are you reading safety notices? I wager not the former. Staff who are public facing should not be seen watching videos for their amusement on duty.

With you here. In any setting, safety critical or not, using a personal mobile phone for any personal purpose while in a visible customer facing position looks really, really unprofessional, and it's not something I'd be treating lightly if I was managing people in customer-facing roles even if not safety critical. For instance in a shop or pub. Bonus unprofessional points* for anything being out loud of course.

If they are reading safety notices then fair enough, but odds on they probably are not.

I suppose if the member of staff runs the booking office at Wick they're going to have a lot of spare time in which it might be harmless, but even then a book or newspaper looks much less unprofessional than scrolling Tiktok. But a member of Tube staff is rarely going to go long enough between being needed by passengers to get bored like that.

Southern OBSs seem terrible for it, as an aside, and it really looks awful. I know they aren't safety critical, but at least go and sit on the bog or something so it wouldn't be visible.

* I'm yet to catch an identifiable, uniformed member of staff doing *that*, but if I ever do you can be assured they will be getting reported, it's bad enough when passengers breach that Byelaw...

 

[bramling]

I make no pretence at being able to do anyone's job better than they do. But when staff are at a gate, focused on a screen or their colleague, and it is difficult or impossible to get their attention to deal with the issue that should be addressed by observation, I think it's reasonable for the customer to consider that something's not working.

Now, if I'm wrong and those staff are actually focused on work devices/work communications, then I hold my hands up and agree that the staff should not be blamed. It does however look rather worse for the organisation that employs them.

Realistically, gateline is a pretty monotonous role. I don’t claim to know what the official position is, but ever since gatelines first appeared staff have found other things to do in order to pass the time, especially at quiet locations/times. A generation ago that would have been reading the paper or a book, now it’s more likely to be using a device. I don’t think that will ever change, and nor should any reasonable person expect it to.

What *is* a problem IMO is when staff are doing something else and it’s difficult to attract their attention, or when you do attract their attention you get a feeling of attitude that they have been disturbed. This is very much the minority, but it isn’t uncommon.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Realistically, gateline is a pretty monotonous role. I don’t claim to know what the official position is, but ever since gatelines first appeared staff have found other things to do in order to pass the time, especially at quiet locations/times. A generation ago that would have been reading the paper or a book, now it’s more likely to be using a device. I don’t think that will ever change, and nor should any reasonable person expect it to.

I think a book or newspaper looks vastly less unprofessional than scrolling detritus on a phone though, particularly if it's with sound on (antisocial and a Byelaw breach) or earphones in (not primarily listening for customers wanting assistance).

Certainly in my line of work headphones on in the office always meant "leave me alone, I'm concentrating on something, send me a meeting request if you want a chat".

What *is* a problem IMO is when staff are doing something else and it’s difficult to attract their attention, or when you do attract their attention you get a feeling of attitude that they have been disturbed. This is very much the minority, but it isn’t uncommon.

The addictive nature of phones probably makes this more likely...

 

[bahnause]

I make no pretence at being able to do anyone's job better than they do. But when staff are at a gate, focused on a screen or their colleague, and it is difficult or impossible to get their attention to deal with the issue that should be addressed by observation, I think it's reasonable for the customer to consider that something's not working.

And that’s exactly where the problem lies. Whether it looks bad or not becomes the focus. Not whether using a phone or iPad is relevant to work or not. The ‘solutions’ then reflect this. Customers complain, management reacts, staff lose access to devices and, consequently, to information. But hey: At least we made it look good for the customer.

Are you watching TikTok on duty or are you reading safety notices? I wager not the former. Staff who are public facing should not be seen watching videos for their amusement on duty.

I occasionally watch YouTube when I’m waiting for something or have a break. I also occasionally watch the informational videos on my employer’s various channels whilst on a break, or even during working hours if I’ve got nothing else to do. If anyone has a problem with this because they can’t tell whether I’m allowed to, obliged to, or simply not allowed to do so, they’re welcome to contact customer services. What I don’t appreciate, however, is the immediate assumption that I’m not carrying out my duties.

Yes, sometimes I just have to take a quick look at a station map before the train departs, because I haven’t been there for a while. Or check the operator’s manual briefly to see what operational impact a fault affecting my next train might have. It might not look good to the customer, but it’s essential for my work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And that’s exactly where the problem lies. Whether it looks bad or not becomes the focus. Not whether using a phone or iPad is relevant to work or not. The ‘solutions’ then reflect this. Customers complain, management reacts, staff lose access to devices and, consequently, to information. But hey: At least we made it look good for the customer.

Noting your location I assume you work for SBB - I must admit the optics of using phones for dispatch are interesting - it genuinely looks like the staff are scrolling away at one of the most safety critical moments of dispatch, but in reality they're signalling to the driver to depart. But then at least it's safer than SBB's old dispatch procedure which gave the right away before the doors were closed, often in my observation resulting in trains departing with doors open.

I guess the fact that this is practice there would make a phone in hand at such times a much less obviously strange thing.

 

[bramling]

Southern OBSs seem terrible for it, as an aside, and it really looks awful. I know they aren't safety critical, but at least go and sit on the bog or something so it wouldn't be visible.

This is where in some ways it’s preferable for guards (or whatever) to be able to spend time in rear cabs. From a user’s point of view I don’t really care if the members of staff is doing something to pass the time, as long as they are ready to come into action if and when required. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect someone to just sit/stand there and stare into space.

* I'm yet to catch an identifiable, uniformed member of staff doing *that*, but if I ever do you can be assured they will be getting reported, it's bad enough when passengers breach that Byelaw...

Not uncommon for “Travel Safe Officers” on GTR to be doing this. Completely agree this very much crosses a line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not uncommon for “Travel Safe Officers” on GTR to be doing this. Completely agree this very much crosses a line.

If I caught any member of staff breaching a Byelaw and could identify them I'd certainly be reporting it, particularly one that exists for the purpose of passenger comfort or safety.

Particularly bad in that case as these people are basically security guards whose job it is to regulate passenger behaviour - including to confront people doing this and stop them doing so, not to do it themselves!

 

[ainsworth74]

I remember in Japan spotting notices put up behind the drivers (as the cabs on most trains have a glass partition so you can see exactly what's going on) which had wording to the effect of "Our drivers are issued with a variety of devices to enable them to do their jobs effectively. If you see them using a tablet, smartphone or similar this is part of their duties". The precise wording eludes me right now but it was of that nature.

It made me suspect that JR companies had been getting complaints of their staff using devices during their work...

"Employees are ordinarily permitted to make limited use of their own computer or mobile device on TfL premises where it does not interfere with productivity of the employee or TfL’s business, and does not inhibit any TfL activity"

That doesn't seem like a bonkers policy to me. I think the main thing for me is that a) any such usage is done on silent, and b) the staff are still aware of what's going on around them so can quickly react to anyone that needs help. They're listening out for dubious beeps that might suggest someone is having an issue for instance.

If you're head down not paying attention at all then that's a problem (and would seem to "inhibit a TfL activity" so contrary to the policy). But otherwise I've often thought that gateline duties must be mind numbing (and indeed that's what several people who have done it have said on this thread) so just banning such people from doing anything but sitting or standing their for hours at a time slowly cracking up staring at the walls seems very counter productive.

I don't focus on work all the time during the working day (for instance by typing this reply! ) but I just make sure when I am distracting myself I do it at appropriate moments (I'm between appointments right now) or I remain ready to crack on with the work that's needed (for instance if I'm covering our reception desk I might scroll my phone but I'm still ready to answer the phone or the front door).

 

[Timmyd]

It is always interesting to read how seemingly every casual observer appears to be able to carry out any task better than the trained staff member currently involved.

For years, we in the rail industry had to put up with comments about how outdated the technology we used was and how poor the information provided to passengers was. Now we are systematically equipping staff with electronic devices to improve the flow of information. But are we now supposed to stop using these devices because they give customers ‘a bad impression’?

The picture clearly shows he is not using the device for customer service or internal work reasons.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 11:18 ==

I remember in Japan spotting notices put up behind the drivers (as the cabs on most trains have a glass partition so you can see exactly what's going on) which had wording to the effect of "Our drivers are issued with a variety of devices to enable them to do their jobs effectively. If you see them using a tablet, smartphone or similar this is part of their duties". The precise wording eludes me right now but it was of that nature.

It made me suspect that JR companies had been getting complaints of their staff using devices during their work...


That doesn't seem like a bonkers policy to me. I think the main thing for me is that a) any such usage is done on silent, and b) the staff are still aware of what's going on around them so can quickly react to anyone that needs help. They're listening out for dubious beeps that might suggest someone is having an issue for instance.

If you're head down not paying attention at all then that's a problem (and would seem to "inhibit a TfL activity" so contrary to the policy). But otherwise I've often thought that gateline duties must be mind numbing (and indeed that's what several people who have done it have said on this thread) so just banning such people from doing anything but sitting or standing their for hours at a time slowly cracking up staring at the walls seems very counter productive.

I don't focus on work all the time during the working day (for instance by typing this reply! ) but I just make sure when I am distracting myself I do it at appropriate moments (I'm between appointments right now) or I remain ready to crack on with the work that's needed (for instance if I'm covering our reception desk I might scroll my phone but I'm still ready to answer the phone or the front door).

If the job is that monotonous and isn’t considered safety critical as the ‘insider’ posters have said, why not get rid of the roles at quiet stations like this one? Plenty of metros globally have their gate lines unstaffed

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the job is that monotonous and isn’t considered safety critical as the ‘insider’ posters have said, why not get rid of the roles at quiet stations like this one? Plenty of metros globally have their gate lines unstaffed

On the mainline there are remote monitored gatelines. On the Tube you need to deal with issues too quickly if they arise as otherwise you risk dangerous overcrowding building up remarkably quickly. Few if any global metros deal with the passenger numbers the Tube does in such restricted (due to their age) station layouts.

 

[speedy1]

why is it so widely tolerated?

Union membership