CarterUSM
Established Member
Glasgow has these dudes also, my word, how they try so hard to look as if they are real plods. What an embarrassment. 
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Staff: the best & worst
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Very naive.
leewoods60019
Member
but its true, you have to stand up for your rights these days, and I'm not letting staff abuse the law, when really there supposed to know it - unless they give a good reason which network rail says if they have a reason, just leave without hesitation - which I can totally respect
Glasgow has these dudes also, my word, how they try so hard to look as if they are real plods. What an embarrassment.
Yes, they are a bit of an embarressment the way they strut around looking self important. In fairness, though, I don;t think they've actually bullied or harrassed anyone to my knowledge.
And how do you propose to stand up for your rights? By arguing and making a scene? The best way to deal with this is what the photogrpahers did. They made their feelings known to the staff in a polite way, then made a complaint, and publicised the icnident on the internet.
ChrisTheRef
Established Member
I had a very pompous lady at Warrington BQ yesterday.
I asked for a ticket from Crewe to Birmingham, as I already had an Oxenholme to Liverpool SP ticket, which is valid from Warrington BQ to Crewe.
She insisted that it wasn't. No only that, she told me it's not even valid via Warrington! (which is the route you get when you put it into NRE) As such, she would only sell me a Warrington to Birmingham ticket!
When I told her that she was obliged to sell me any ticket I asked for, whether or not it was valid from Warrington, she point blank refused. I ended up buying onboard.
I asked for a ticket from Crewe to Birmingham, as I already had an Oxenholme to Liverpool SP ticket, which is valid from Warrington BQ to Crewe.
She insisted that it wasn't. No only that, she told me it's not even valid via Warrington! (which is the route you get when you put it into NRE) As such, she would only sell me a Warrington to Birmingham ticket!
When I told her that she was obliged to sell me any ticket I asked for, whether or not it was valid from Warrington, she point blank refused. I ended up buying onboard.
I really don;t understand why booking clerks make life so difficult for themselves. When I was one, it was much easier to sell whatever the customer asked for whilst providing the usual information about any restrictions.
CarterUSM
Established Member
Indeed, it amazes me the amount of people who wish to make a rod for their back. It really is not hard to carry out your duties in a reasonably professional manner, if not a fully professional one.
MidnightFlyer
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Why not just tell her you wanted a ticket from crewe-BHM? I had a bad experience with an EC guard about a 'Valid Via...' ticket. I dont even want to talk about it...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Where were you at?
leewoods60019
Member
I don't mean in a rudeish way, just to ask to talk to the manager of the station if he dosen't give a good reason
Reading, from 1998 to 2001
90019
Established Member
Which laws would those be then?
Templecombe
Member
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jimrbrobinson
Member
Maybe I'm just a lucky person, but so far (touch wood) I've never had a negative experience. I've also not had many outstandingly positive ones either! The majority are neutral, they've done their job properly - no more no less. Then again, I'm not a very demanding passenger!
Certainly, on a slightly different note, I've found the majority of rail staff very approachable when wanting to ask daft questions about railway trivia!
Agree with some of the comments above about the police look-alikes. There are a number of private security firms operating in various places around the north Manchester area who are dressed exactly police, right down to stab-vests and Maglite torches, yet they are not even coppers or pcsos, they are glorified door staff with a SIA card!
Certainly, on a slightly different note, I've found the majority of rail staff very approachable when wanting to ask daft questions about railway trivia!
Agree with some of the comments above about the police look-alikes. There are a number of private security firms operating in various places around the north Manchester area who are dressed exactly police, right down to stab-vests and Maglite torches, yet they are not even coppers or pcsos, they are glorified door staff with a SIA card!
ChrisTheRef
Established Member
I did, she said "what about here to Crewe?"
Didn't seem to understand it was none of her business.
Luckily I was buying a First Anytime, so it made no difference to me to buy on board
MidnightFlyer
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I did, she said "what about here to Crewe?"
Didn't seem to understand it was none of her business.
Luckily I was buying a First Anytime, so it made no difference to me to buy on board
Yeah. if they ask you what about here to XXXX, agian, just say yoiu have a valid ticket. they should let you off with that, if not then just make yourself known to the gurad onboiard, im sure they would understand
You have just quoted enthusiasts have a law to themselves, enthusiast laws what a load of Bull. You will be better off referring to the Railway Byelaws
No disrespect but you need to have a more mature view on this as all it takes is one driver or member of railway staff to put in a complaint and no matter what your useless enthusiast law says you will be banned from photting at any said location
I wason duty on Saturday as a shed man and there were many an enthusiast out as the class 40 was passing through, they were not any trouble and a nice bunch of lads, not my thing photographing trains but they were polite, asked if they couldphotograph the locoI was working first etc. however if they had been out of bounds or in a dangerous area I would have moved them on!
Aictos
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Same for Oxford with the Deltic on Saturday, safety messages sent over the pa and the station manager out and about but did any photographers listen, oh no.
The impression I get is the majority of photographers are a law into themselves with only a minority who actually are well behaved and are welcome at any station, just go to any station when a charter comes though to see what I mean.
The impression I get is the majority of photographers are a law into themselves with only a minority who actually are well behaved and are welcome at any station, just go to any station when a charter comes though to see what I mean.
I went to see Tornado in Swansea on 1st March and I have to say I can see why these events are not popular with operational staff. There were hordes of people on all 4 platform ends, with BTP and ATW staff trying to ensure that no one put themselves in a position of danger. This all takes staff away from their normal duties, and the crowds thronging th eplatforms also interferes with ordinary travellers going about their business.
On the other hand, as a PR exercise, they can be very beneficial to the railway. A lot of goodwill is generated and children can pick up an affection for trains that lasts for life, so the inconvenience is probably worth it if you look at the big picture.
On the other hand, as a PR exercise, they can be very beneficial to the railway. A lot of goodwill is generated and children can pick up an affection for trains that lasts for life, so the inconvenience is probably worth it if you look at the big picture.
leewoods60019
Member
Network Rail website says it, not so much of a 'law' but more of rules
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It will take more than one complaint to end trainspotters these days we are classed as ''extra eyes and ears'' and can help in security says Network Rail, they encourage enthusiasts!
That sentence can't be hidden behind. If an enthusiast is being an idiot, they're being an idiot, and they'll be dealt with. The sentence is there to re-assure enthusiasts that it is recognised they have some positive benefits. However, it's not an excuse to mis-behave.
Yes, enthusiasts can be a positive, but ultimately it is down to the staff on the ground to decide if any action needs to be taken on the grounds of safety. It's this that leads me to think that in the OP, there was some reason why the local manager did not want the photgraphers ont hat particular platform at that time.
I can just imagine a staff member's respone if an enthusiast says 'I can stay here, Network Rail encourages enthusiasts and I cna help with security'!
I can just imagine a staff member's respone if an enthusiast says 'I can stay here, Network Rail encourages enthusiasts and I cna help with security'!
90019
Established Member
Indeed, they're not laws, they're guidelines, which are a completely different kettle of fish.
However, you must also remember that a railway station is private property, you're only there because they allow you to be there, and it is up to them if they will allow you to remain there.
If they tell you to leave, you must leave, regardless of whether you think they're right to. End of.
The Box Photter
Member
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Spot on.
Its not a public place, so if you don't have a valid ticket for travel, theoretically, you have no business being on the station.
If the management ask you to leave, you must leave.
There is no railway byelaw preventing photography for personal use, but we are allowed onto the platform on the understanding that we will not get in the way or cause a danger to passengers or staff. Can you imagine what would happen if a "civilian" or staff member was injured or killed as a result of an enthusiast dicking about?
Give and take, that's what its all about.
On private property, the owner, or anyone representing the owner (in this case station staff) has the right to ask you to leave, and use reasonable force to do so if you refuse.
Ironically the Police* actually have no power to ask you themselves to leave private property, and if they do assist the owner / the owners representative in doing so then they are not acting as a police officer, just as another member of the public.
* the BTP probably do have this right on railway premises, given their unique position in British policing
What about private property where public access is granted? If any member of staff could ask you to leave, and you HAD to there and then, I can see multiple opportunities for that power to be abused.
It would be different to someone coming and standing on my front lawn, where I'd hope to have the right to use reasonable force to eject them.
It would be different to someone coming and standing on my front lawn, where I'd hope to have the right to use reasonable force to eject them.
There isnt really a difference - the public usually have access because the owner wishes them to do so (eg: where a shop wants people in it to buy things), and when the owner/owners rep no longer wishes them to be there then they have to leave.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
In the case of the bloke on your lawn, you could ask him to leave your premises and if he doesn't then you can make a complaint of aggravated trespass under the Criminal Justice Act 199x ( whatever year it was ), which is a criminal matter ( unlike most trespass ) and can therefore be dealt with by the police.
Not sure, but I think you have to warn him at the time of making the request to leave that if he doesn't you would be making the complaint.
323235
Established Member
I had another negative experience (I have quite a lot), this time with a ticket clerk at Sheffield.
I was buying a Doncaster - York and York - Scarborough as I already had a ticket to Doncaster.
At first he asked me what ticket I already had, which I produced along with a Y/P Zero Excess, as I had realised on an earlier train, after my ticket had been checked that I had mistakenly been given a SNR discounted ticket. I spoke to the Guard who was a very nice guy and sorted it out for me.
After looking at this, he kept saying I could not use a Senior Railcard Discounted Ticket and didn't seem to understand.When He did finally get it, he then said he would only sell me a Doncaster - York and that I would have to get off at York to buy my York-Scarborough because I was split ticketing, even though I was getting a direct train. When I pointed out that there was no mention of this in the NCOC and that I was getting the Direct Train , he said he would do it this once but that I mustn't be doing split ticketing often and that they were soon changing the rules to stop people split ticketing. I asked him when, to which he replied "Soon".
I was buying a Doncaster - York and York - Scarborough as I already had a ticket to Doncaster.
At first he asked me what ticket I already had, which I produced along with a Y/P Zero Excess, as I had realised on an earlier train, after my ticket had been checked that I had mistakenly been given a SNR discounted ticket. I spoke to the Guard who was a very nice guy and sorted it out for me.
After looking at this, he kept saying I could not use a Senior Railcard Discounted Ticket and didn't seem to understand.When He did finally get it, he then said he would only sell me a Doncaster - York and that I would have to get off at York to buy my York-Scarborough because I was split ticketing, even though I was getting a direct train. When I pointed out that there was no mention of this in the NCOC and that I was getting the Direct Train , he said he would do it this once but that I mustn't be doing split ticketing often and that they were soon changing the rules to stop people split ticketing. I asked him when, to which he replied "Soon".
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Can I just ask what service your were getting that runs DON-YRK-SCA direct?
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