Staff pass vs Virgin rail-ongoing

[ssray]

I will update you when I get something concrete, hopefully not a set of boots with virgin on them, I have had no reply so far(12days) from the mayor but I assume his office will just pass it to Tfl but at least there will be a paper trail this time.

as for not stopping at watford, my staff pass is given as part of my wage, if i was not issued with it i would be paid for travel and as such any train i board will not have to stop at watford, euston ticket have always said that the reason is they do not stop at watford.

as of tuesday i`m having a fairly major operation so will not be at work for a while, i will update if i recive anything via the postman/woman.

Thanks for all your help and advice so far.

Ray

 

[ssray]

Still no reply from anybody(i`m glad I was not holding my breath)
I emailed the Mayor`s office the letter I posted them, I have been off work for a while after an operation, if your wondering why I havent chased this up.

Cheers and happy new year

Ray

 

[34D]

Personally I dont think a season ticket combination Euston to Watford Junction and Watford Junction to Birmingham would ever be valid on Virgin trains. Virgin trains only stops to pick up at watford junction on the way to birmingham and sets down only on the way to Euston.

So for example coming from Birmingham when you get to Watford you would have to get off because you cannot use the Watford to London Season ticket to join that train from Watford.

Think you're missing the point. A southbound (up) VWC is set down only at Watford Jct (or non stop). As long as noone attempts to board this train at WFJ then all is fine:

Split single/return tickets ie BHM-WFJ and WFJ-EUS assuming the train calls there
Season one side and non-season the other for a non-stop train

This is Barry Doe's point of view - "set down only" means exactly what it says.

All of my post here relates to Joe Public and not rail staff

 

[Mojo]

Before replying to any points, please note the age of this thread.

 

[ssray]

Its still current, which is why i added to it today
Ray

 

[Mojo]

Its still current, which is why i added to it today
Ray

Hi Ray,

I wasn't referring to you, just specifically to others who may be responding to points which have already been addressed.

 

[ssray]

No pobs, re-read it today myself just to see if I have missed anything.

Cant i just take them to the small claims court?

Ray

 

[34D]

Before replying to any points, please note the age of this thread.

Don't think anyone had commented on the (general) wfj point hence I did so.

 

[AlterEgo]

No pobs, re-read it today myself just to see if I have missed anything.

Cant i just take them to the small claims court?

Ray

On what legal basis?

Is this agreement enshrined anywhere, legally?

Where is it written that you can do this?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

No pobs, re-read it today myself just to see if I have missed anything.

Cant i just take them to the small claims court?

Ray

If you want to be laughed out of court, you can.

 

[ssray]

Well somebody has to make a decision,I am exhausting every avenue.
just trying to get there sooner rather than later.

Any body know the mp i could try?

Ray

 

[AlterEgo]

Well somebody has to make a decision,I am exhausting every avenue.
just trying to get there sooner rather than later.

Any body know the mp i could try?

Ray

For the umpteenth time, have your staff travel facilities department contacted Virgin, by phone, to ratify/confirm this agreement?

 

[ssray]

For the umpteenth time, have your staff travel facilities department contacted Virgin, by phone, to ratify/confirm this agreement?

As no bugger is replying to me, I am trying all avenues, sorry if it bugs you but i cant afford to let over £1k a year go.
Cheers
Ray

 

[AlterEgo]

As no bugger is replying to me, I am trying all avenues, sorry if it bugs you but i cant afford to let over £1k a year go.
Cheers
Ray

OK - I still can't believe that your staff travel department cannot get an answer from the relevant person at Virgin. It takes one phone call.

Do you have anything in your contract, or anything written down, that confirms this agreement?

 

[ssray]

I have a nice full colour printed page from lul internet the shows where our passes are valid from etc, ratafied by john Easson at lul/tfl when I showed virgin they just wanted to know who allowed the virgin logo to be put on the page!!!
I realise i`m banging my head against a brick wall but maybe i`m not smart enough to know when to give up.

If you think this post is annoing you should try paying £8.5k like i did on the 28th when you should pay £7.3k.

when somebody quite high up at virgin tells me that they dont know and nobdy at virgin will decide either way,thats quite annoning

I`m not sure they have keyboards in padded rooms where i think this is leading me.

Cheers
Ray

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Just send an email to your staff travel department explaining that you understood this agreement to exist, yet it has not been recognised by some Virgin staff. Could they please contact Virgin's staff travel department to confirm, and get back to you ASAP.

 

[ssray]

Done that,no luck so far, its virgin being v awkward

maybe i should try Mr Branston?

Ray

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Done that,no luck so far, its virgin being v awkward

maybe i should try Mr Branston?

Ray

I don't think Branston has much to do with Virgin. He's more in the pickles market

What did the email say in reply (presumably it was from TfL?)?

 

[AlterEgo]

maybe i should try Mr Branston?

Ray

Richard Branson does not get involved with the day-to-day running of Virgin Trains.

Tony Collins is the Chief Executive.

 

[ssray]

Mr Collins got a nice man to tell me to bugger off(in a nice way) will copy and paste the email, below




Dear Mr Thornton,



Thank you very much for your correspondence received in this office on 1 February 2011, which Tony Collins has asked that I respond.



I note your request for confirmation of whether your London Underground Staff Privilege Oyster Card is valid in conjunction with a Birmingham New Street to Watford junction Season ticket for a through journey with Virgin Trains from/to Birmingham New Street and London Euston.



I have received feedback from Dave Baker, Security & Revenue Team Leader at London Euston, as well as the Association of Train Operating Companies Head of Rail Staff Travel. I note that you have discussed this matter with Dave Baker last year who explained that your London Underground Staff Privilege Oyster Card is not valid for travel with Virgin Trains. I can confirm that currently this position has not changed. I am sorry for any disappointment this causes you.



Thank you for taking the time to contact our office.



Yours sincerely



Michael Gartland

Chief Executives Office

and this one from ATOC

Dear Mr. Thornton,

Thank you for your email. As you are an employee of London Underground please ask your staff travel department to liaise with Virgin Trains on your behalf. I have forwarded your email to our Rail staff travel section but they have replied that they are unable to assist as your travel scheme is not part of ATOC.

Kind regards,

Katie Evans
ATOC
Customer Relations


Ray

 

[ralphchadkirk]

And have you asked your staff travel department to liaise with Virgin Trains on your behalf?

 

[ssray]

I cant actually get access to the name of the person who actualy deals with it,
john easson is our operational intergration manager and i update him and he says its being delt with and he will pass on my email.

the below is from a college whos also travels via virgin
Hi Ray and all concerned,

I think the answer to this is simple your tickets and that of any other passenger is regulated under the National Rail conditions of carriage, This being the rules that
Would allow Virgin to penalty fare if you were unable to produce a valid ticket. Page 6 The Route you are entitled to make. Section 13 (!) a through train ( f ) for the purpose of this Condition, a “ through train “ is one which may be used by a passenger to make their entire journey WITHOUT changing trains.

THERFORE THE TRAIN DOES NOT NEED TO STOP AT WATFORD JUNCTION

Page 8 section 19 Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together the cover the entire journey and one of the following applies ; ( c ) one of the tickets is a season ticket ( which for the purpose of this does not include Season tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority ) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket (s) is / are not.

The last passage needs to be looked at by LUL legal.


Ray

 

[AlterEgo]

You see, according to the NRCoC, both tickets (your season ticket WFJ-BHM) and your staff pass count as "season tickets" in my view. Therefore you cannot use that combination...

...unless LUL/TfL and Virgin have an express agreement otherwise, which is what you say exists.

 

[transportphoto]

I personally think you have overcomplicated a simple matter - had you started by contacting the staff travel office at LUL, be that via your line manager or direct, they would have been able to give you a simple answer, yay or nay. In the process of this they would contact virgin at a higher level and sort it out. I don't think you need to do all of this by your self - eventhough it affects you.

TP

 

[ralphchadkirk]

You see, according to the NRCoC, both tickets (your season ticket WFJ-BHM) and your staff pass count as "season tickets" in my view. Therefore you cannot use that combination...

...unless LUL/TfL and Virgin have an express agreement otherwise, which is what you say exists.

I'd also disagree with their interpretation of a through train meaning it does not need to stop at Watford Junction, but I'm not confident enough on that point to assert it.

 

[ssray]

I started out a the bottom rung and have just moved up when i have had no answer from there.

The ticket office dont know, virgin revenue dont know.

lul/tfl say its valid so where do i go from here?
ray

 

[Mojo]

But staff travel have already confirmed their opinion is that it is valid. Both TfL and LUL say it is acceptable. It appears that this either isn't true, or current employees within Virgin are not aware of this long-standing agreement.

 

[yorkie]

Virgin Trains do not operate a Penalty Fare scheme. If a Birmingham Stns - Watford Season is held, and the guard does not recognise your staff pass as a valid Watford-London ticket, the worst the guard can do is ask you to pay £8.30 for an Anytime Day Single (SDS) from Watford Jn to London Terminals. If this action is incorrect, you can appeal the fare, get your money back and ask Virgin why they are allowing their guards to act incorrectly, and for assurances it will not happen again. If necessary take it to Passenger Focus (though they're pretty toothless and not very knowledgable in my experience) and if your employer is supporting your position ask them to assist you in dealing with Virgin.

Have you tried phoning Virgin Customer Services? Some of them are quite helpful!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The ticket office dont know, virgin revenue dont know.

lul/tfl say its valid so where do i go from here?

Given this, I would buy the ticket, travel, and if a guard challenged me I would inform them of the agreement, and if they insisted on charging for a WFJ<>EUS single I would politely inform the guard that I was going to be appealing the charge and taking further action on the matter.

There are a small number of guards, who are well known, who cause problems, and if enough complaints are made, that small minority can be dealt with. The vast majority of guards will probably give you no hassle whatsoever.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I started out a the bottom rung and have just moved up when i have had no answer from there.

The ticket office dont know, virgin revenue dont know.

lul/tfl say its valid so where do i go from here?
ray

Tell them that Virgin staff are not accepting it as valid, and could they please ensure that Virgin Revenue Staff are made aware of it.

 

[AlterEgo]

But staff travel have already confirmed their opinion is that it is valid. Both TfL and LUL say it is acceptable. It appears that this either isn't true, or current employees within Virgin are not aware of this long-standing agreement.

Exactly.