Stadler Flirt best modern train?

[Wolfie]

Do they have that at every station, or is it just in the core? I haven't noticed it anywhere other than Blackfriars & Farringdon. Could be something that's only compatible with 700s - at the very least it requires 700 door spacing and accurate stopping points, so wouldn't be appropriate at London Bridge or East Croydon, for example.

But if that is acceptable for TL, then it suggests that having some doors level boarding but not all is acceptable.

Done on the tube and most of the Overground too. Believe that they are called Harrington Humps.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Done on the tube and most of the Overground too. Believe that they are called Harrington Humps.

They are, because the first implementation was done at Harrington station on the Cumbrian Coast. Though I think there it only brings the platform up to 915mm from the almost European height some of them are at present.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2025 ==

As you say, this conflict should have been avoided from the start by sticking to the 915mm standard everywhere, including HS2 and Lizzie line.

The problem with the Lizzie was that Heathrow was already high and they didn't want to have to close it for an extended period to lower it, I believe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2025 ==

Do they have that at every station, or is it just in the core? I haven't noticed it anywhere other than Blackfriars & Farringdon. Could be something that's only compatible with 700s - at the very least it requires 700 door spacing and accurate stopping points, so wouldn't be appropriate at London Bridge or East Croydon, for example.

The version that goes up to door height is only on Thameslink (and presumably Overground) stations where freight doesn't pass the platforms, as it is out of gauge. The version on rural low platforms only goes up to the standard 915mm from the 500mm ish you tend to get on old rural stations in places like the Conwy Valley, Cumbrian Coast and rural Scotland, not door height. It does at least mean a wheelchair user can use the ramp rather than it being impossible for them to access the station at all.

 

[Trainbike46]

The problem with the Lizzie was that Heathrow was already high and they didn't want to have to close it for an extended period to lower it, I believe.

Fixing two stations would have been easier than fixing all of the rest of the country though. And if they'd fixed those two stations, it'd have been resolved, instead of this problem just dragging on forever.

 

[JamesT]

Fixing two stations would have been easier than fixing all of the rest of the country though. And if they'd fixed those two stations, it'd have been resolved, instead of this problem just dragging on forever.

You would also want to specify low floor stock for the Elizabeth Line and HEX, to retain the level boarding aspect.

 

[BerkshireRails]

And you have a design that offers level boarding, no large horizontal gap, AND allows every single type of freight locomotive and freight trailer to fit (which in practice means you can't foul the loading gauge at all), without introducing ridiculous speed restrictions?

My understanding is that is impossible.

Apart from the fact even standard platform foul the loading gauge for some locos, even after taking an inch off the buffer beam. A class 69 has run through the 1,115mm platforms of the core. Plus only a few wagon types would need to be approved passed Old Oak Common, as it is only stuff to Paddington New Yard and engineering trains to worry about. Class 69 in Core

Going high for all services is a problem, because then you'd have to standardise at 1100mm for all the places served from there, which involves rebuilding every platform on the entire GWR network, which in practice then means you'd have to go and standardise the entire network on that. It's a terrible idea. The smallest number of platforms alterations would be to rebuild the elizabeth line to standard 915mm when the next generation of Lizzie Line trains comes in.

As you say, this conflict should have been avoided from the start by sticking to the 915mm standard everywhere, including HS2 and Lizzie line.

Paddington High level platforms 6 & 7 have level boarding for the 387s. Network Rail are currently rebuilding Ealing Broadway to reduce number of falls on to the 750mm platforms. A lot of the GWR platforms are 750mm, to not foul the loading gauge. Also 915mm standard fouls the European gauge found on HS1 & HS2.

 

[Trainbike46]

Apart from the fact even standard platform foul the loading gauge for some locos, even after taking an inch off the buffer beam. A class 69 has run through the 1,115mm platforms of the core. Plus only a few wagon types would need to be approved passed Old Oak Common, as it is only stuff to Paddington New Yard and engineering trains to worry about. Class 69 in Core

You posted that before, and I believe you that the cl69 fits. That one loco fits does not mean all other locos do, and the 69 is a rather niche type at that. More importantly, the the freight wagons, and everything else also needs to fit. The only way to do that is to respect the loading gauge.

You're saying the standard British platforms foul the standard British loading gauge? That sounds rather unlikely!

Paddington High level platforms 6 & 7 have level boarding for the 387s. Network Rail are currently rebuilding Ealing Broadway to reduce number of falls on to the 750mm platforms. A lot of the GWR platforms are 750mm, to not foul the loading gauge. Also 915mm standard fouls the European gauge found on HS1 & HS2.

Are you sure about the 750 mmm because that is very low, even below the EU standard of 760mm? Maybe some units got mixed up?

HS1 of course has separate "European" platforms and UK platforms, which is a very sensible solution on that railway - it enables trains that fit the standard uk platform height, that continue onto conventional UK railway lines, while also enabling EU-standard international stock for international services. HS1 is a special case because of its link to Europe, no other railway in the UK is like it, or ever will be like it.

I'm trying to think of why you're bringing HS1 up, because it is so clearly irrelevant. Unless you are proposing fully separating the Lizzie line and HEx from GWR? But if so, then why not say that?

 

[BerkshireRails]

You posted that before, and I believe you that the cl69 fits. That one loco fits does not mean all other locos do, and the 69 is a rather niche type at that. More importantly, the the freight wagons, and everything else also needs to fit. The only way to do that is to respect the loading gauge.

Even routes which follow the loading gauge don't let everything following the gauge fit. Using the Heathrow Branch on the Wales & Western Sectional Appendix as an example 08s, 20s, 31s, 33s, 37s, 47s, 56s, 57s, 58s, 59s, 60s, 66s, 67s, 68s, 70s, 73s, 88s & 97s are all approved as long the fans are on in the tunnel, in addition it is W6a compliant so it is in gauge.

You're saying the standard British platforms foul the standard British loading gauge? That sounds rather unlikely!

Yes I am for some older locos like the GWR King's and Castles which are wider than most stock. Kings are around 5cm wider on each side at 915mm than a FLIRT which is just enough to mean the platform standard fouls the loading gauge for the King which was historically larger.

Are you sure about the 750 mmm because that is very low, even below the EU standard of 760mm? Maybe some units got mixed up?

Yes I am because that is what the Network Rail Freedom Of Information request about platform heights says. Network Rail Freedom of Information Request

HS1 of course has separate "European" platforms and UK platforms, which is a very sensible solution on that railway - it enables trains that fit the standard uk platform height, that continue onto conventional UK railway lines, while also enabling EU-standard international stock for international services. HS1 is a special case because of its link to Europe, no other railway in the UK is like it, or ever will be like it.

I'm trying to think of why you're bringing HS1 up, because it is so clearly irrelevant. Unless you are proposing fully separating the Lizzie line and HEx from GWR? But if so, then why not say that?

Operationally HEX is part of GWR. I am bring up HS1 & HS2 to show that the 915mm standard isn't possible for every station.

 

[Krokodil]

To be honest, in my view, the best regional train design in this country has to be the Alstom Class 175. Forgetting all the problems relating to their reliability and build quality; their interior is second to none.

It was good on a refurbished example. The worst of the worn seats however were positively painful to sit in.

Luggage space is very poor

So when ordering replacements TfW decided to halve it. It's now just routine to tuck suitcases either side of the doors. I miss the Mk3s.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that the thread is for the discussion of Stadler Flirts.

I have split off some posts that were discussing luggage on trains to this thread:

Is there too much luggage and/or too much large luggage on trains?

Moderator note : split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stadler-flirt-best-modern-train.288015/ So when ordering replacements TfW decided to halve it. It's now just routine to tuck suitcases either side of the doors. I miss the Mk3s. I guess you have a lot of lazy passengers. I...

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