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St Pancras Undercroft

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ChiefPlanner

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There used to be a tortuous , grim flight of stairs via several dog legs to / from the LU ticket hall. It stunk of "sewage" and so on. I did complain to in writing to the LU station manger who did reply pretty quickly saying it was a problem beyond them as it was beyond their control (fair enough) , the underused station on a Winters evening was grim.

To go back to the undercroft ,I understand it was used for all sorts of document storage etc , one of my ex staff was employed as a "junior claims investigator" and he trawled through boxes of Midland area hot axle box detector records for weeks , till he found the necessary print outs in some rat infested corner and it was the fault of a private owner wagon that caused the delays. Lesser people wold have given up.

BR had this wine club "Malmaison", who stored quantities of stock down there. Probably kept in one of the better areas .....
 
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Ediswan

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Looking for interior photos I came across this Flickr group, it didn’t really answer my earlier question but others may find it interesting - many photos show how poor the ambience was before the international conversion:
I liked the 1980s version. It always seemed purposeful. A simple platform layout. No retail clutter. Big clock*. I don't particularly recall the LU connection as I was usually connecting with King's Cross (Hertford Loop).

* Except for part of 1985 https://stpancras.com/history/a-tale-of-three-clocks
 

O L Leigh

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Some excellent memories coming through this thread. Thanks so much for all that's been shared so far.

I expect that the lack of photographs of the undercroft reflects how poor the conditions would have been down there. I would imagine that it would have been very dark and dingy, much like my own memories of the trainshed. We used to travel via London to my grandparents during the late 70s and very early 80s (certainly before the start of the electric service to Bedford), going via Liverpool Street and St Pancras. Even though in those days you could not claim the former to have been a particularly airy or pleasant place, going into St Pancras gave me "the fear" every single time. Even now, after the refurbishment and as a middle-aged man, it's a feeling I still can't quite shake.
 

jumble

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Am i right in thinking that there used to be a garage there for the servicing and repairs to black cabs?
There were a half a dozen or so of Garages on the Midland Road side mostly run by Greek Cypriots
One of them had an old chap who lived in one of them sleeping in a chair
If you left a car unlocked outside you had a serious chance of finding a lady of the night sleeping in it
A Snap On man was once mugged by a junkie on threat of attack with a dirty needle



nMidland Road.jpg
 

swt_passenger

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There were a half a dozen or so of Garages on the Midland Road side mostly run by Greek Cypriots
One of them had an old chap who lived in one of them sleeping in a chair
If you left a car unlocked outside you had a serious chance of finding a lady of the night sleeping in it
A Snap On man was once mugged by a junkie on threat of attack with a dirty needle
Wasn’t the location in the picture used for the lockup rented by George Marlowe in the first of the Prime Suspect series?
 

Recessio

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Isn't there a film where Michael Caine drives a car straight onto the St Pancras platforms before boarding a train? The name completely escapes me now, but I think it gives a good view of the old interior...
 

Peter Mugridge

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Isn't there a film where Michael Caine drives a car straight onto the St Pancras platforms before boarding a train? The name completely escapes me now, but I think it gives a good view of the old interior...
The Fourth Protocol, I think?
 

Peter Mugridge

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That's the one! I knew it wasn't Get Carter...
Another point... I can't remember if it made it into the film, but the book contains the immortal line which just sums up the mid-BR era perfectly:

"Bog off!" said the porter.
 

Big Jumby 74

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The Fourth Protocol, I think?
The was a car switch in St Pancras in the John Wayne film Brannigan too.
At risk of veering OT for a minute, brilliant films, both, and (in today's world ;) ) perhaps not so popular amongst some, but for one of a certain generation I loved them. It could be said about JW (Brannigan), whatever film he starred in, he was always 'JW', but what the hell. The Mk2 Capri on Tower Bridge and the E Type around the old coal wharf, stuff of legend....:D

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

"Bog off!" said the porter.
Buy one get one free.......!
 

Pigeon

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Ah, that's mentioned in an Arup pdf I attached in a thread a few years ago. I'll try and find it...
[link inserted]
http://railforums.co.uk/attachments/st-pancras-arup-pdf.39949/

Thank you for that. I discovered all those diagrams for myself a while back while trying to figure out how they'd managed to cut through most of the stays without having the whole lot fall down (hoping to find they'd done something which would eventually start to fail and compel them to put it all back how it used to be), but they were not part of a PDF, they were just stuck on random websites without any of the accompanying text. So even discovering the "after" diagram didn't answer the question as without the text there was nothing to denote the new floor as structural. Being able to read the whole original document was most informative, even if it was a bit sickening to read so much architects' self-congratulatory glurge-speak patting themselves on the back for all the bad things they'd done.

I liked the 1980s version. It always seemed purposeful. A simple platform layout. No retail clutter. Big clock*. I don't particularly recall the LU connection as I was usually connecting with King's Cross (Hertford Loop).

* Except for part of 1985 http://stpancras.com/history/a-tale-of-three-clocks

I thoroughly agree. All that SPACE. Peaceful. You were just waiting for trains, and it was possible to rest a while from the effort of maintaining the mental barriers against all the horrid London crap that surrounded you everywhere else.

If they did have to fill the undercroft with shops they could at least have had the decency to leave the floor intact so they were isolated from the station area and you didn't have to know about it, but of course making them as intrusive as possible was the whole awful point.

The connection to the Underground I remember as being something that became easier once you'd worked out what went where and didn't have to depend on the signs. Bit hazy now but I recall it as having two subway routes, the lesser one being better but harder to find than the main one, and a variety of options involving going outside and making part of the journey on the surface. All of course much better than the enormous extra distance they have made you walk now. The Met/Circle platforms were particularly atmospheric, with the contrast between the north (eastbound) platform and the big central access hall where the platform used to be, and the feeling of the history being still present in the background.

I still clearly remember the first time I caught a train out of St Pancras, on a dark wet evening. Coming up the steps from the Underground into this huge dim empty cavern was like moving into another world, one to which even at something-past-five on a Friday evening few people found the way, a slower and quieter one where time did not move so fast and trains would run endlessly into eternity. The timewarp feeling continued on the train journey itself, in a set of Mk 1s with pale green formica and very fifties-style transparent semicylindrical ridged diffusers around the rather dim fluorescent lights, making its way through the night at an undefinable speed with occasional deserted stations for unfamiliar towns fading into view outside the windows as a dim yellow-brown glow in the darkness.
 

XAM2175

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I still clearly remember the first time I caught a train out of St Pancras, on a dark wet evening. Coming up the steps from the Underground into this huge dim empty cavern was like moving into another world, one to which even at something-past-five on a Friday evening few people found the way, a slower and quieter one where time did not move so fast and trains would run endlessly into eternity. The timewarp feeling continued on the train journey itself, in a set of Mk 1s with pale green formica and very fifties-style transparent semicylindrical ridged diffusers around the rather dim fluorescent lights, making its way through the night at an undefinable speed with occasional deserted stations for unfamiliar towns fading into view outside the windows as a dim yellow-brown glow in the darkness.
Yeah, because it's the fault of those terrible architects that all of this changed :rolleyes:

... even if it was a bit sickening to read so much architects' self-congratulatory glurge-speak patting themselves on the back for all the bad things they'd done.
I thought it was quite a good explanation, actually, especially considering that it was written by the structural engineering and project management firm, not the actual architects.

One of their associates did a quick look-back on the project in 2020:
Heritage-led regeneration: learning from St Pancras
In 2020 St Pancras International, a railway station in London, turns 13. It has become London’s leading ‘destination’ station: high-end shops, bars, restaurants and a luxury hotel sit alongside a complex transport interchange between metropolitan, regional and international rail services. Now in its second decade, we look back on our work there to see what lessons it can teach us around heritage and the built environment.
The station was originally built in 1868 to the designs of the Midland Railway’s engineer William Barlow, whose mighty iron roof, arching unobstructed across the train shed, was once the largest free-spanning structure in the world. The dramatic gothic hotel at the front was designed by George Gilbert Scott, one of Victorian England’s most prolific and distinguished architects.

By the middle of the twentieth century the building was unloved and decaying badly. It was nearly destroyed as London, like much of Britain, looked to replace its “vulgar” and “outdated” Victorian buildings. Sleek modernist structures were thought to be more fitting for an optimistic post-war future. Euston station suffered this fate in 1962.

Euston’s destruction, and the survival of St Pancras, brought about the conservation movement as we know it today in Britain. The rebirth of St Pancras in 2007 gave it the opportunity to become influential again in a new way: as an exemplar of heritage as a driver for urban regeneration.

The conservation and rebirth of the Victorian station​

As a heritage consultant and architectural conservationist, I am particularly interested in the quality of the building’s conservation. Arup approached the task with a clear brief to preserve as much as possible of the Victorian station’s unique character. Wide-ranging stakeholder consultation was carried out to establish the priorities of various heritage groups prior to and during the project.

The key design move was to devote Barlow’s huge shed to trains and hide the new elements – shops, ticket halls, pedestrian flow and all the transport interchange movements – in an undercroft below. A slot was then cut out of the platform level to open a sunken precinct to views of the magnificent roof above. A new shed was constructed to the rear, accommodating the much longer trains of the rerouted Eurostar service from Paris and Brussels.

These adaptations were not without their compromises – the transition between old and new train sheds could have been more sensitively handled, for instance – but the project achieved a startling success in allowing the original building to work in a new way. The most important aspects of its original design are framed and celebrated in a modern context. Changes to the building are, for the most part, expressed “honestly”, meaning that new materials are clearly distinct from the old. This is another key principle of good conservation practice. The composite building is satisfyingly multi-layered and architecturally stunning.

St Pancras legacy​

After thirteen years St Pancras remains a prime example of a key principle of modern urban design: that transport interchanges should be centres for density, activity and economic growth. In this way the redevelopment of St Pancras opened the door for central London’s largest brownfield site to be brought back to life.
The economic stimulus of public transport can be profound. In this case St Pancras prompted the renewal of its neighbour station King’s Cross and a cascading sequence of investment in the previously inaccessible “railway lands” to the rear of both. These contaminated former goods yards, previously serving the Midland and East Coast main railway lines, have been transformed. Two major educational institutions have moved in: Central Saint Martin’s art school to a converted grain warehouse, and the Francis Crick Institute into a new building drawing significant architectural cues from Barlow’s station.

Offices, homes and shops have followed – including the remarkable Coal Drops Yard and Midland Goods Shed, both inhabiting former railway buildings, and Gasholders London set inside three conserved Victorian gasholder frames. Gilbert Scott’s station hotel has also been completely renovated. Arup has had a hand in all of these projects, along with various other new buildings on the site.

St Pancras stands as a gateway for rail passengers into London, and for Londoners into a rediscovered part of the city. It acts as monument and standard-bearer for an intelligent, sensitive approach to city development which celebrates the heritage of a place and uses it as a propellant for positive change.

In Arup’s current work at other stations (including York, listed at Grade II* and positioned next to a famous medieval city centre) we still reference our achievements at St Pancras: a new urban quarter and high-grade public space around a carefully-conserved historic station. Victorian engineering as catalyst for the complex dynamics of 21st-century life.
He stays in York and his email address and phone number are right there on the page - maybe you'd like to give him the benefit of your opinions on the matter?
 
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