St Pancras E Gates

[Chester1]

The recent announcement at the UK - EU summit got me thinking, is there space at St Pancras if France adopts "stamp desk" system for British travellers?

Several countries in EU, most notably Spain and Portugal allow British Citizens to use e gates but then have a desk afterwards where we must get a passport stamp. The combined time is ussually much quicker than the "all passports" queue because the border officer ussually just glances and then stamps. It's a compromise measure until EES launches.

If EES launches in October then this system will soon be redundant but after 4 years of delays that is a big if and there could well be another 1-2 years of delays. The EU has left e gate decisions to national government's but the summit gave a clear nudge to national government's to be pragmatic. There was an interesting quote in a Chatham House podcast from an Ambassador to the UK from an EU country. He said it wasn't until it was pushed by the Labour government that EU leaders realised it was a source of resentment and that there is a lot of willingness to sort it out. France allowing Brits to use e gates prior to EES would be great at Airports but would it work at St Pancras with it's space constraints?

 

[Nigel]

I don't use a British passport to travel, but IIRC when I departed from Gare du Nord in April they had separate queues for UK and EU passport holders with both using E-Gates, but the Brits then having the Schengen exit stamp given at a second subsequent counter.

 

[Chester1]

I don't use a British passport to travel, but IIRC when I departed from Gare du Nord in April they had separate queues for UK and EU passport holders with both using E-Gates, but the Brits then having the Schengen exit stamp given at a second subsequent counter.

I didn't realise Brits could use French E Gates. I haven't been to France for several years (excluding traveling through France on Eurostar). If the second queue for stamps is used at Gare du Nord that would indicate its not used at St Pancras because of lack of space or another location specific reason.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I have used the e-gates at St Pancras several times (but not always).
After passing through someone stamps your passport.
This is a bit quicker (and probably a bit cheaper to operate as the passport stamper doesn't appear to be a full passport officer).

 

[Chester1]

I have used the e-gates at St Pancras several times (but not always).
After passing through someone stamps your passport.
This is a bit quicker (and probably a bit cheaper to operate as the passport stamper doesn't appear to be a full passport officer).

This is showing up its been a while since my last outbound trip on Eurostar! How long has the post e gate stamp system been running for? A year or two? It sounds like the French are doing all they can to speed things up until EES finally launches.

 

[WestCoast]

I went through a French egates in February at both St Pancras and Gare du Nord. As far as I know, France has always allowed UK and other selected countries like the US to use designated PARAFE egates. The ones for non-EU have someone (who appears to be an immigration assistant or suchlike) stamping passports.

 

[signed]

I didn't realise Brits could use French E Gates. I haven't been to France for several years (excluding traveling through France on Eurostar). If the second queue for stamps is used at Gare du Nord that would indicate its not used at St Pancras because of lack of space or another location specific reason.

The rationale I have read here on the various threads about STP is that they figured it's a lot more efficient to not use e-gates at STP and just process everyone manually.

And seeing how slow the French egates process is at Gare du Nord is (very bad passport recognition last time I used them), they're probably right in some way

 

[The exile]

I didn't realise Brits could use French E Gates.

Definitely can at Paris CDG. Yet to be convinced that “gate for gate” e-gates are any quicker than conventional ones. Cheaper to operate - yes - and therefore easier to have more (space permitting).

 

[Trainbike46]

The rationale I have read here on the various threads about STP is that they figured it's a lot more efficient to not use e-gates at STP and just process everyone manually.

And seeing how slow the French egates process is at Gare du Nord is (very bad passport recognition last time I used them), they're probably right in some way

Of course, eGates have returned to St Pancras during the changes that massively increased the number of French border official booths.

French border control is no longer the limiting factor on the number of passengers able to travel to St Pancras - I think it is the security luggage scan that is limiting now?

 

[signed]

- I think it is the security luggage scan that is limiting now?

The departure area itself is the bottleneck in area

 

[Trainbike46]

The departure area itself is the bottleneck in area

Absolutely - though based on my experience they've started boarding trains earlier, which reduces that issue at least somewhat.

 

[WideRanger]

Yet to be convinced that “gate for gate” e-gates are any quicker than conventional ones. Cheaper to operate - yes - and therefore easier to have more (space permitting).

Even if each processing of an individual takes roughly the same for manual checking and e-gates once you get to the front of the queue, if you are able to have more gates (and cost is going to be a factor), then overall it is going to be much quicker - because the queue will go a lot faster.

In most border control areas (except when demand is particularly low), the time actually having your passport checked is a small fraction of the queue time.

 

[AdamWW]

Definitely can at Paris CDG. Yet to be convinced that “gate for gate” e-gates are any quicker than conventional ones. Cheaper to operate - yes - and therefore easier to have more (space permitting).

Has anyone actually made that claim? It's hard to see why they should be faster than a human just sticking the passport in a scanner and looking to see if the photo matches.

As you say, the advantage is that it's practical to have more gates than manned booths.

To bring in the dreaded supermarket analogy, I can't use a self-checkout as fast as a checkout operator could get my stuff through, but it's usually faster overall because supermarkets are willing to provide a lot more self-checkouts than staffed ones so the queuing time is less.

 

[styles]

I'm not convinced the border staff at St Pancras are the highest trained in any case, so if you wanted to sneak through you probably could.

Last time I was there, with a wheelchair user, I had my hands full with the wheelchair user's belongings as security scanning was a bit of an adventure. I said to the border guard I'm just helping her through then I'll come back, and to my amazement, both of them let me go past. I spent a good 20 minutes getting her to the lounge and some snacks before bothering to go back and show my passport, and nobody chased me about it. In fact it was only when I tried to go back through that someone said you can't do that, and I was like, well, I did.

 

[mrmartin]

If that's true that the EU doesn't realise what a terrible impact their non-EU border checks have on their tourism sector then I am slightly lost for words at how ignorant they are. For example, Portuguese airports are (again) having huge issues processing non-EU arrivals in less than 3 hours. A CEO of a huge US tech company with a very big presence in Lisbon is losing his rag at the PT government quite publicly on twitter over it today.

At the end of the day the EU/Schengen have an enormous problem on their hands. The current system of passport stamping is ludicrously outdated with Schengen. But to fix it they need to update every single border crossing with new equipment. And it all needs to work across 27 member states and god knows how many individual border forces.

It's also imo a huge security concern as border guards currently cannot see (at least easily) where someone has entered the EU if it was a different country.

Given the EUs ability to execute on software is dramatically worse than even the UK public sector I am doubtful we will see EES this decade. I've still been through many airports that clearly do not have any egates (try small southern European ones). Unless there is some backup portable system they plan on using for this?

 

[cool110]

I've still been through many airports that clearly do not have any egates (try small southern European ones). Unless there is some backup portable system they plan on using for this?

EES doesn't require e-gates, and in any case those won't be usable by those requiring short-visit visas who will still need recording. All the parts can be done by border guards at staffed booths, any self-service kiosks or e-gates are just for queue busting which isn't really a concern at those small airports anyway.

 

[Chester1]

If that's true that the EU doesn't realise what a terrible impact their non-EU border checks have on their tourism sector then I am slightly lost for words at how ignorant they are. For example, Portuguese airports are (again) having huge issues processing non-EU arrivals in less than 3 hours. A CEO of a huge US tech company with a very big presence in Lisbon is losing his rag at the PT government quite publicly on twitter over it today.

At the end of the day the EU/Schengen have an enormous problem on their hands. The current system of passport stamping is ludicrously outdated with Schengen. But to fix it they need to update every single border crossing with new equipment. And it all needs to work across 27 member states and god knows how many individual border forces.

It's also imo a huge security concern as border guards currently cannot see (at least easily) where someone has entered the EU if it was a different country.

Given the EUs ability to execute on software is dramatically worse than even the UK public sector I am doubtful we will see EES this decade. I've still been through many airports that clearly do not have any egates (try small southern European ones). Unless there is some backup portable system they plan on using for this?

It's not 27 members. Ireland and Cyprus are not in Schengen but Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein are. Schengen was developed seperate to the EU and eventually sort of absorbed by it. The root cause of the problem is having 29 different IT systems forcing a reliance on stamps for anyone who doesn't have FOM. One IT system for all Schengen entries and exits should have been in place a generation ago. The UK hasn't helped the situation, things sort of worked (badly) for processing non EEA nationals before brexit but we have overloaded the system at many airports.

 

[mrmartin]

EES doesn't require e-gates, and in any case those won't be usable by those requiring short-visit visas who will still need recording. All the parts can be done by border guards at staffed booths, any self-service kiosks or e-gates are just for queue busting which isn't really a concern at those small airports anyway.

I thought it required at minimum finger print readers? I know some small Spanish airports have them (with no gates) but Greek ones don't.

It's not 27 members. Ireland and Cyprus are not in Schengen but Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein are. Schengen was developed seperate to the EU and eventually sort of absorbed by it. The root cause of the problem is having 29 different IT systems forcing a reliance on stamps for anyone who doesn't have FOM. One IT system for all Schengen entries and exits should have been in place a generation ago. The UK hasn't helped the situation, things sort of worked (badly) for processing non EEA nationals before brexit but we have overloaded the system at many airports.

You are right and I agree; my point was more that the EU officials did not realise this was an issue. Dozens of airports have serious serious issues with non-EU entries and it suggests a complete lack of care when it comes to their tourism/business travel sector.

 

[Chester1]

I thought it required at minimum finger print readers? I know some small Spanish airports have them (with no gates) but Greek ones don't.


You are right and I agree; my point was more that the EU officials did not realise this was an issue. Dozens of airports have serious serious issues with non-EU entries and it suggests a complete lack of care when it comes to their tourism/business travel sector.

My personal experience is that Spain and Portugal have been pretty good since brexit but it sounds like I was very fortunate when I went to Lisbon. The worst travel experience I have had since 2020 was at Berlin Brandenberg. It was made worse by no longer being an EU citizen but even they were treated badly. We all waited in a corridor with no information for over half an hour. I think EU citizens took about 45 minutes and non EU citizens about 90 minutes. Lots of blaming brexit from remainer Brits of course but the whole thing was shocking. EU citizens waited for about 40 minutes for the e gates to be switched on.

Non Schengen travellers highlight the negative side of having a bloc. If the "us" group becomes very big then less care is taken with "them". Middle sized countries (in terms of population) like the UK, Canada, Australia, South Korea etc generally have to consider foreign visitors more because we have smaller domestic tourist markets. The Schengen effectively creates one giant domestic market for travel and tourism.

 

[mrmartin]

Yeah I totally agree. I suspect also because Europeans coming to the UK get a very smooth process (all my European friends commented how easy even the ETA process was) so they probably don't realise it's not reciprocal. Even US immigration isnt flighted between citizen and not from what I recall.

But yes Lisbon can be an absolute shambles in the summer. I've waited 4hours before which is appalling especially as you often have a lot of people getting cheap connecting flights via TAP so are extremely stressed. It's actually that bad I heard from a friend they run out of luggage belts so inbound flights get stacked.

Porto in fairness is a lot better in my experience. But I've heard Faro is already a complete horror show.

 

[AdamWW]

Even US immigration isnt flighted between citizen and not from what I recall.

Always has been separate queues for US and non US citizens when I've gone through US immigration.

 

[Zamalek]

Always has been separate queues for US and non US citizens when I've gone through US immigration.

But they take just as long: last year we took 2.5hrs to get through immigration at Newark Airport, and the US Citizen who had been sitting across the aisle from us got through 'his' queue at exactly the same time ....

 

[signed]

But yes Lisbon can be an absolute shambles in the summer. I've waited 4hours before which is appalling especially as you often have a lot of people getting cheap connecting flights via TAP so are extremely stressed. It's actually that bad I heard from a friend they run out of luggage belts so inbound flights get stacked.

Porto in fairness is a lot better in my experience. But I've heard Faro is already a complete horror show.

The main issue with Portugal is that the airports are way too small for the summer traffic and way too big for the off-season one

Faro is an island which compounds everything.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 May 2025 ==

The worst travel experience I have had since 2020 was at Berlin Brandenberg.

Berlin Airport has been a major flop and white elephant (in terms of actually working right) ever since it was designed

 

[AdamWW]

Faro is an island which compounds everything.

It was in mainland Portugal when I went there.

 

[signed]

It was in mainland Portugal when I went there.

I confused Faro with Funchal, Madeira :facepalm:

 

[AdamWW]

I confused Faro with Funchal, Madeira :facepalm:

Ooops! But I think we've both strayed a little from E-gates in St Pancras.

 

[mrmartin]

The main issue with Portugal is that the airports are way too small for the summer traffic and way too big for the off-season one

No it's not that. The problem is the PT immigration agency (used to be called SEF) is in a perpetual state of serious crisis and cannot retain/get enough staff. This has been going on for years. They actually beat a Ukrainian guy to death in Lisbon airport in 2019 (!) which probably gives you an idea of the deep levels of dysfunction of the agency.