St Ives branch

[glynn80]

As for the station statistics being so odd it is because of the rover tickets and is accepted that figures for the line are massively inaccurate.

Accepted by who?

 

[TEW]

Accepted by who?

First Great Western, they have the sales figures for rover tickets anyway so don't need to rely on the other data.

 

[glynn80]

First Great Western, they have the sales figures for rover tickets anyway so don't need to rely on the other data.

But FGW do not compile the Station Usage statistics, that is an ORR function.

If you read the Station Usage Report that is complied annually (http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/stn_usage_report_0708.pdf), you would see that the ORR extract their data directly from the LENNON sales database (i.e. they bypass FGW). The LENNON data is not wholly useful to Station Usage functions however and therefore some of the LENNON data is excluded from the analysis, and subsequently from the Station Usage data, included in this excluded data is both the St Ives Bay Day Ranger and St Ives Short Hop*

So can you explain how FGW are dismissing station usage statistics for the line because of apparent irregularities in the data caused by the St Ives Bay Day Ranger, when sales figures for the ranger are not included in the Station Usage statistics in the first place?


*The ORR state the following:

"Also from the analysis were excluded all the flows that had either Origin or Destination an “I code”, usually some form of special pass that cannot be identified with a station"

And the St Ives Bay Day Ranger is listed in the FRPP as having NLC Code I294, the St Ives Short Hop is also an listed under the I Code tab as I293.

 

[TEW]

So can you explain how FGW are dismissing station usage statistics for the line because of apparent irregularities in the data caused by the St Ives Bay Day Ranger, when sales figures for the ranger are not included in the Station Usage statistics in the first place?

[/SIZE]

FGW are dismissing station usage statistics because they are so low, they know they don't provide a true representation of the usage of the line. The rover causes irregularities because it is the main ticket used on the branch and doesn't count towards the figures, so figures are going to be much, much lower than the amount of people actually using the stations.

 

[glynn80]

FGW are dismissing station usage statistics because they are so low, they know they don't provide a true representation of the usage of the line.

Are you talking about low numbers at the intermediate stations on the line?

If so, I am not sure of the relevance of FGW dismissing station usage statistics with regard to the St Ives line, mainly because they are bound until 2015, by a franchise agreement dictating the service levels on their network.

Just out of interest also, where did you here they were dismissing the statistics as I have done a quick trawl of the internet and found nothing.

The rover causes irregularities because it is the main ticket used on the branch and doesn't count towards the figures, so figures are going to be much, much lower than the amount of people actually using the stations.

Which irregularities are you talking about, if it is the ones posted above by williamn, then those statistics (which were extracted from the ORR station usage document) were not calculated using St Ives Bay Day Ranger sales figures, as I have already explained in detail above.

 

[TEW]

Why don't you get what I am saying? All I keep saying is FGW dismiss the figures because they know they don't give a true figure of usage of the line because rover tickets do not count towards them, everytime I say this you seem to tell me once again that the rover figures aren't included, I just ****ing told you that, idiot!

 

[glynn80]

Why don't you get what I am saying? All I keep saying is FGW dismiss the figures because they know they don't give a true figure of usage of the line because rover tickets do not count towards them, everytime I say this you seem to tell me once again that the rover figures aren't included, I just ****ing told you that, idiot!

:roll:

The reason I am questioning you is because I'm not sure you are giving correct information. You are stating the official position of FGW with what I see as no basis whatsoever (do you have any basis?).

You also seem to think I keep telling you the Ranger sales figures are not included just to inform you of that. What I am actually trying to do is to state that fact to challenge another point you make.

You are talking about the St Ives Bay Day Ranger creating "irregularities". I was asking whether the irregularities you were citing were the large drop in passenger numbers mentioned above by williamn, because if it is the large drop in passenger numbers williamn talks of, then that CANNOT have been caused by the St Ives Bay Day Ranger (as you state as the cause) because:

The St Ives Bay Day Ranger sales figures are not included in the station usage figures williamn links to as I have already explained (if you aren't aware of how the station usage figures are calculated, you might want to know that they are usually calculated looking at the tickets sold from and to any particular station).

If you are talking about separate irregularities please state them, if not please stop claiming the irregularities williamn cites are caused by the Ranger.

 

[dan_atki]

I just ****ing told you that, idiot!

May I remind you of rule 1a. Whilst it may be infuriating when someone doesn't understand your point, it is no ground for you to start calling them an 'idiot'.

So, enough of the name calling.

 

[TEW]

The large drop in passenger numbers in the statistics is caused by the Rover ticket, as you and I both keep saying it isn't included in figures. Therefore the figures which attempt to provide a figure for station usage based on ticket sales don't give a realistic figure of station usage on the St Ives branch. FGW accept that the only journeys on the branch are not point to point tickets and don't make changes based on this data.

 

[devon_metro]

Most tickets aren't checked on SIV anyway as the trains are often rammed.

 

[glynn80]

I think the St Ives Rover has been in existence since 1978 when the Lelant saltings park and ride opened. I think it was part of the deal where the County Council paid for the car park and the local council paid for the platform. As such it predates privatisation by some years and FGW have just inherited a BR agreement.

After undertaking some additional research into the topic, I can confirm that the St Ives line did have fares listed in NFMs from 1995 and 1997. There were both Cheap Day, Standard Day and 7 Day Seasons ticket types available. I could find no mention of any rover for the line in various fares manuals from the mid 90s so am unsure where the 1978 date has come from.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I have just read through this post following a link to it in a more modern thread. I find the whole situation totally bizarre.

According to the Fares Manual there are no fares at all from St Ives to St Erth and any station inbetween. This is odd as the posts do make mention of a "short hop" fare, but these cannot be found in the Manual.

Secondly, the Manual has a page about the Rover fare on the line, the information being:

St. Ives Bay Line Day Ranger

Adult £4.00
Child £2.00
Railcard* £2.65


Railcard Discounts
*Devon & Cornwall Railcard only- 34% (No other Railcard discounts available)


Validity
Available after 09:00 (Monday-Fridays) and all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays.


Only available between:

· all stations St Erth to St. Ives inclusive

Valid only on services of the following Operators:

· First Great Western

So, if you want to travel from St Ives to St Erth only, before 0900 on a Wednesday, what do you pay??

 

[brompton rail]

Ah! But you can have a Weekend First upgrade for only £5! No other fares at at all! Guess that means it is free?

 

[clagmonster]

Avantix Traveller shows an SDR from St Ives Cornwall to St Ives shrt hop, route + any permitted for £2.00. It does not allow railcard discounts and does not give any other details. The same is shown from St Erth and the intermediate stations on the branch. Is this shown as if it were a flow between two stations in the manual? Presumably this is what would be sold before 09:00 or if you wanted a single.
I wonder, as it has the Maltese Cross in the route, whether it would be accepted on the London Underground!

 

[yorkie]

If it prints that (unlikely) then the drones would accept it.

 

[bb21]

Maybe that's an all-inclusive ticket from St Ives Cornwall via St Erth, Plymouth, Paddington and King's X/Liverpool St to Cambridge, then a bus transfer onto St Ives Cambs. That'll certainly explain the Maltese X