St Albans Abbey 319 and first class

[jon0844]

So, the timetable shows first class in operation on the Abbey Line route. But there are no first class fares from St Albans to Watford Junction (so I assume only for those with seasons going beyond).

What's more, I asked the driver who just said to me 'just use it, you'll be fine' while giving me a look that suggested nobody was going to check, or care. As it happened, a security guard got on and sat in there the whole trip too - and never asked for tickets.

So, taking the driver's statement as authority to travel, we did so and benefitted from the table so my son could eat a muffin that I then had to carefully clean up!

But what's the real story? Yes, it's first class but nobody will do anything? If so, why not declassify it?

And why has LM only refreshed parts of the train. Did it run out of seat covers?! Not enough people buying tickets to pay for the rest?

 

[causton]

You could have been charged weekend first

But yes, the first class is virtually pointless. As is any ticket, as revenue checks on it are few and far between, with one solitary member of staff who assists in selling tickets Mon-Fri mornings but the guards will never check or sell tickets due to the proximity of station stops!

There is the occasional revenue block however, which means most people don't risk it.

And yes, we literally did run out of moquette. This was about a year ago though, so sure there must be some in stock now, maybe it is just the time wasted to take the train out of service and recover the seats as so few of the 319s are in working order!

 

[D365]

One would wonder if LM may be tempted to change back to Class 321s - Greater Anglia are only taking on six of Great Northern's 13 321s, which seems strangely coincidental.

 

[jon0844]

You could have been charged weekend first

But yes, the first class is virtually pointless. As is any ticket, as revenue checks on it are few and far between, with one solitary member of staff who assists in selling tickets Mon-Fri mornings but the guards will never check or sell tickets due to the proximity of station stops!

There is the occasional revenue block however, which means most people don't risk it.

And yes, we literally did run out of moquette. This was about a year ago though, so sure there must be some in stock now, maybe it is just the time wasted to take the train out of service and recover the seats as so few of the 319s are in working order!

With football on today, there was quite a queue at SAA so most people just saw the train come in and boarded. It was quite clear some kids who got off part way never had to get a ticket at all.

At Watford Junction those who didn't have a ticket formed a long queue at the excess fares window, which I stupidly joined for a while as I couldn't see that it wasn't for the gates!

I guess they don't give PFs at Watford Junction then.

On the way back, the gates were unattended and open!

 

[causton]

Sounds all too familiar...

I have seen somewhere online that fare dodging happens on up to 37% of journeys, no source for that (the user group does a ticketless travel survey IIRC) but it doesn't sound that far off.

That queue is an impressive size at peak time, especially if there is nobody on the train selling tickets, it can go all the way down to platform 9!

PF scheme is not in operation on the Abbey line, in practice I think PFs are only issued if there is an open ticket office on the whole. TVMs are coming to the intermediate stations on the Abbey line soon but whether people choose to use them or not...

 

[jon0844]

Sounds all too familiar...

I have seen somewhere online that fare dodging happens on up to 37% of journeys, no source for that (the user group does a ticketless travel survey IIRC) but it doesn't sound that far off.

That queue is an impressive size at peak time, especially if there is nobody on the train selling tickets, it can go all the way down to platform 9!

PF scheme is not in operation on the Abbey line, in practice I think PFs are only issued if there is an open ticket office on the whole. TVMs are coming to the intermediate stations on the Abbey line soon but whether people choose to use them or not...

If there's no PF scheme then I assume not. Seems a shame as that line surely needs to make money to keep it going, although perhaps if people had to actually pay they'd either not travel or use other means (at both ends, I kept seeing the Arriva 321 and it seemed as if it must run every 20 seconds) and then the passenger numbers would fall, which could be more damaging?

I also swear the drop to the platform at SAA is bigger now than it was before. It's ridiculous! Even the Harrington Hump is way too low.

 

[causton]

I also swear the drop to the platform at SAA is bigger now than it was before. It's ridiculous! Even the Harrington Hump is way too low.

Ask my dog, she fell down the gap and almost cancelled the last 321 on the Abbey line
(I was still holding onto her lead and some kind stranger pulled her up before I could even process what I was seeing!)

Unfortunately, it seems like a bit too little, too late for anything to be done in the current franchise. The extra TVMs is a good start but whoever takes over the franchise next year, hopefully they have some ideas to ensure people can't get away as they can. The problem is much bigger than the Abbey line though...

 

[jon0844]

I really do wonder if its future is more secure if passenger numbers remain high, rather than making more revenue - given some of that can't be measured (season tickets, people travelling with a longer origin/destination so it can't be determined the route taken etc).

But at £7.40 peak and £5.10 off peak return before discounts, the loss in revenue is going to be quite significant. If the gates are often left open, it seems well worth a gamble - and if you're going to intermediate stops, you're laughing.

(I realise now having checked again, there IS a first class 7 day season. £48.90 vs £31.50 standard. So by rights, they should be enforcing it - at least in the week).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Watch the action at Watford in the peak - free ride on the branch and swipe in for a nice cheap Oyster fare to the Big City....

A massive fare purge for a week would identify quite how much revenue is being lost on the line ......

 

[ainsworth74]

When I did the line I was rather surprised to find security guards present on the platform at Watford and patrolling the train in the middle of the day! Never experienced such a thing anywhere else at that time of day before outside of football crowds.

 

[TEW]

I made the mistake of doing the line around 1530 a couple of weeks ago. The whole train was swamped with school kids, and the single security guard definitely wasn't sufficient to keep them all behaving.

 

[jon0844]

When I did the line I was rather surprised to find security guards present on the platform at Watford and patrolling the train in the middle of the day! Never experienced such a thing anywhere else at that time of day before outside of football crowds.

The security guard on our train just sat next to us in first class the whole journey, looking at his tablet in a very brightly coloured case! Do tablets need to wear hi-visibility clothing too?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't really understand why they don't dedicate a Class 319/4 to the line and not bother having 1st.

 

[D365]

I don't really understand why they don't dedicate a Class 319/4 to the line and not bother having 1st.

Perhaps because it's under maintenance a lot of the time.

Although if London Midland picks up some more 319s (or 321s) as cover for the 350 incidents they may be able to go back to using a dedicated 319 unit.