SR South Western division historical patterns 1967-2003

[jfollows]

I've now received a 1992 working timetable (11/5/92 to 27/9/92) so I'll continue in the same vein as in post #7 earlier on, and demonstrate that (as I suspected) nickw1's memory is good and mine isn't:

1992 (11/5/92 to 27/9/92 although I have the timetable for the second half of the year also)
13:05 93 to Southampton (Clapham Junction, Surbiton, SL non-stop to Woking, then all stops)
13:10 80 to Portsmouth Harbour (Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh)
13:15 to Exeter (Woking, Basingstoke)
(13:11 SL 75 to Guildford, Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton, SL from the start)
13:20 82 to Portsmouth Harbour (Clapham Junction, Woking, Guildford, then all but Milford, Witley & Rowland's Castle)
13:26 52 to Farnham (Surbiton, SL, Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, Woking)
13:32 91 to Weymouth (Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth)
13:37 63 to Basingstoke (Clapham Junction, Surbiton, SL non-stop to Woking)
(13:41 SL 75 to Guildford, Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton, SL from the start)
13:50 81 to Portsmouth Harbour (Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Portsmouth & Southsea at 15:09, Portsmouth Harbour at 15:14)
13:53 92 to Bournemouth (Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Parkway, Southampton)
13:56 51 to Alton (Clapham Junction, Woking, then all stops)

Stopping service on the Portsmouth Direct by 14:27 73 Guildford to Portsmouth & Southsea LL, all stops except Hilsea, connects out of the 81 at Guildford (14:19 arrival)

The number of FL stops at Clapham Junction is striking to me, when compared with earlier years, it hadn't been that long since there weren't any at all.

If there's anything else you'd like me to look up in the newly-arrived timetables, let me know!

EDIT And, following the earlier discussion, the 82 stops at Hilsea whereas the 73 does not!

 

[nw1]

Thanks for this @jfollows - much as I remember. A few comments below.

I've now received a 1992 working timetable (11/5/92 to 27/9/92) so I'll continue in the same vein as in post #7 earlier on, and demonstrate that (as I suspected) nickw1's memory is good and mine isn't:

1992 (11/5/92 to 27/9/92 although I have the timetable for the second half of the year also)
13:05 93 to Southampton (Clapham Junction, Surbiton, SL non-stop to Woking, then all stops)

Unchanged since 1989.

13:10 80 to Portsmouth Harbour (Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh)

The direct electric Fareham service running for its third year. However, sometime not long after this it was removed, for a time - presumably loadings low as a result of the recession?

13:15 to Exeter (Woking, Basingstoke)

Same slot as 1989 and run by 47s by this time if I remember right. I am fairly sure the Exeter service was temporarily downgraded immediately before the 159 introduction (one year later) - for example ISTR the Waterloo-Salisbury directs disappearing altogether and being replaced by a 3H-operated Basingstoke-Salisbury shuttle. Also the Exeters, I think, llost their clockface pattern and departed different times in the hour during the day (may have got this wrong, though).

(13:11 SL 75 to Guildford, Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton, SL from the start)

Replacing the through 73. 455 operated. Presumably the forerunner of the 1997 xx09 Woking stopper.

13:20 82 to Portsmouth Harbour (Clapham Junction, Woking, Guildford, then all but Milford, Witley & Rowland's Castle)
13:26 52 to Farnham (Surbiton, SL, Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, Woking)
13:32 91 to Weymouth (Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth)
13:37 63 to Basingstoke (Clapham Junction, Surbiton, SL non-stop to Woking)

Much the same as 1989 with some minor timing adjustments.

(13:41 SL 75 to Guildford, Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton, SL from the start)

Replacing the third Farnham train in the hour ('53') which no longer ran, though I have a feeling that Farnham was just a convenient place to terminate it, given that it was a lot slower than the other two and Farnham had a depot, so was a good place to store peak stock during the day.

13:50 81 to Portsmouth Harbour (Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Portsmouth &'5 Southsea at 15:09, Portsmouth Harbour at 15:14)

Much the same as 1989. I am fairly sure 442s were introduced this year on these. Looks like the Fratton stop was not there even by 1992, then - looks like you were right about that one!

13:53 92 to Bournemouth (Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Parkway, Southampton)

Retimed after departing xx45 in 1989. Presumably delayed by a few minutes to give a more even spread to Southampton services, though it also now meant Winchester and Eastleigh had two services closely bunched (xx53, xx10).

13:56 51 to Alton (Clapham Junction, Woking, then all stops)

Much the same as '89, delayed by one minute presumably due to the retimed xx53 and desire for 3-minute headway for Clapham Junction stoppers.

Stopping service on the Portsmouth Direct by 14:27 73 Guildford to Portsmouth & Southsea LL, all stops except Hilsea, connects out of the 81 at Guildford (14:19 arrival)

Yes, remember that. Shuttle service, three diagrams, two VEPs and a CIG, if I remember right.

The number of FL stops at Clapham Junction is striking to me, when compared with earlier years, it hadn't been that long since there weren't any at all.

I think the big changes came in '88 and '89: certainly everything here which called (excepting the new xx10) also called at Clapham in May '89. So we went from virtually nothing in 1984/85 to many calls in 1989/90.

If there's anything else you'd like me to look up in the newly-arrived timetables, let me know!

EDIT And, following the earlier discussion, the 82 stops at Hilsea whereas the 73 does not!

Maybe that was because the 73 had a tight turnaround and they had to swap out the Hilsea stop?

Guessing the autumn-winter-spring '92/'93 was much the same, as I am fairly sure big changes only took place in May at that time.

Will use this as an opportunity to add a little more 1997 info for services away from Waterloo: by that time the Waterloo 93 had gone (see above) so a Southampton-Eastleigh hourly shuttle run by a 4VEP (still 93) took its place. This swapped onto Eastleigh-Portsmouth in peak hours, IIRC. Extra services ran round the peaks, some with a CIG instead.

There was also, if I remember right, a two-hourly Eastleigh-Brockenhurst shuttle, providing the Beaulieu Road service: again a single 4VEP, so Swaythling had three trains per two hours, a little down on the 2tph of the early 90s. AFAIK only in the nineties (in the electric era) did it ever get anything more than an hourly service.

 

[adc82140]

At what point did we lose the through "97" Lymington to Waterloo train? I remember picking it up at Fleet (08:48 I think) well in to the late 1990s. Usually formed of a CIG, and rather cosy as it was the first off peak departure of the day.

 

[Thewanderer]

Over on the Windsors, the 1988 timetable introduced an interesting pattern of xx00 Reading 'express' (Clapham, Richmond then fast to Ascot), xx03 Guildford via Ascot (Clapham, Richmond, Twickenham, Staines then all) and xx30 Reading slower (similar to the Guildford but without Twickenham). The other Ascot-Guildford started back at Reading, giving an even-interval 20-min service Ascot-Reading. While not a regular user I always thought this was quite an innovative timetable.

Bringing back great memories here as I grew up in Twickenham, however Whitton was my closest station, up to 1989 when we moved to Ireland. I was 8 when we moved.
Any idea what times the Windsor service (58) left Waterloo at? If we were in London for the day, I would persuade my mother to take the Reading train home (VEP, sometimes a CIG) as far as Richmond and drop back onto the next service to serve Whitton. In those days as you mentioned, headcode 38 didn't stop at Twickenham.

I have to say I never recall the Guildford service, but we could have easily travelled on that as well I suppose, I would assume it wasn't advertised as a Guildford train at Waterloo, hence me not knowing?

 

[Snow1964]

Bringing back great memories here as I grew up in Twickenham, however Whitton was my closest station, up to 1989 when we moved to Ireland. I was 8 when we moved.
Any idea what times the Windsor service (58) left Waterloo at? If we were in London for the day, I would persuade my mother to take the Reading train home (VEP, sometimes a CIG) as far as Richmond and drop back onto the next service to serve Whitton. In those days as you mentioned, headcode 38 didn't stop at Twickenham.

I have to say I never recall the Guildford service, but we could have easily travelled on that as well I suppose, I would assume it wasn't advertised as a Guildford train at Waterloo, hence me not knowing?

The Guildford service was always advertised as a Frimley train at Waterloo, as could always get to Aldershot and Guildford more quickly (using mainline via Surbiton).

Another train I haven’t seen discussed much was a Portsmouth-Reading train in late 1970s or very early 1980s. Might have been every 2 hours and ran by Fareham, Eastleigh and Basingstoke, was operated by a 3H thumper DEMU. Used it once with some friends, and the particular unit had a single non gangwayed compartment, was only time I ever travelled on mainline Eastleigh-Basingstoke in a non-gangwayed compartment.

 

[nw1]

At what point did we lose the through "97" Lymington to Waterloo train? I remember picking it up at Fleet (08:48 I think) well in to the late 1990s. Usually formed of a CIG, and rather cosy as it was the first off peak departure of the day.

I don't remember an up through '97' in the morning at all, but that would have left Southampton quite early around 0750 so it may have escaped my attention. I do recall four-cars on some up stoppers around that time in the morning, so this could have been one of them. I presume it ran using the '93' stopping pattern (all to Woking) or was it a semi-fast calling something like Parkway, Eastleigh, Winchester, and Basingstoke before Fleet?

At one point I remember an 8VEP leaving Southampton at around that time in the morning (0750 ish) and I am fairly sure that was the late 90s also, probably very late 90s (1998 or 1999). This one started at Southampton, but without the timetables it's hard to say when the Lymington went.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2021 ==

Bringing back great memories here as I grew up in Twickenham, however Whitton was my closest station, up to 1989 when we moved to Ireland. I was 8 when we moved.
Any idea what times the Windsor service (58) left Waterloo at? If we were in London for the day, I would persuade my mother to take the Reading train home (VEP, sometimes a CIG) as far as Richmond and drop back onto the next service to serve Whitton. In those days as you mentioned, headcode 38 didn't stop at Twickenham.

I have to say I never recall the Guildford service, but we could have easily travelled on that as well I suppose, I would assume it wasn't advertised as a Guildford train at Waterloo, hence me not knowing?

Just noticed an error btw, the xx03 also stopped at Feltham, as did the xx30. As @Snow1964 said, this was advertised Frimley at Waterloo. About 60% CIG, 40% VEP Mon-Fri and 100% VEP on Sat (a common pattern for this kind of service) and always four-car, except some peak services which used a HAP to make it up to 6.

The Windsors I think left at a time in the hour which would provide a nice even spread of fastish services to Richmond and Feltham, something which was consistent through the 80s. I have a feeling it was xx12 or xx15, not 100% sure but I do remember noticing a nice even pattern of Richmond 'fasts'.

 

[Thewanderer]

I don't remember an up through '97' in the morning at all, but that would have left Southampton quite early around 0750 so it may have escaped my attention. I do recall four-cars on some up stoppers around that time in the morning, so this could have been one of them. I presume it ran using the '93' stopping pattern (all to Woking) or was it a semi-fast calling something like Parkway, Eastleigh, Winchester, and Basingstoke before Fleet?

At one point I remember an 8VEP leaving Southampton at around that time in the morning (0750 ish) and I am fairly sure that was the late 90s also, probably very late 90s (1998 or 1999). This one started at Southampton, but without the timetables it's hard to say when the Lymington went.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2021 ==



Just noticed an error btw, the xx03 also stopped at Feltham, as did the xx30. As @Snow1964 said, this was advertised Frimley at Waterloo. About 60% CIG, 40% VEP Mon-Fri and 100% VEP on Sat (a common pattern for this kind of service) and always four-car, except some peak services which used a HAP to make it up to 6.

The Windsors I think left at a time in the hour which would provide a nice even spread of fastish services to Richmond and Feltham, something which was consistent through the 80s. I have a feeling it was xx12 or xx15, not 100% sure but I do remember noticing a nice even pattern of Richmond 'fasts'.

Yes I should have picked up on the Feltham stop on the Reading / Guildford's. I certainly remember them calling there. A xx12 / xx42 would make sense for a Windsor train as I recall never having to wait too long for a following Windsor service to get us back to Whitton.

I'm hoping timetable world website upload a late 80's timetable for the southern region at some stage.

Did the HAP's ever go to Reading? I do remember seeing HAP's on the Windsor side so these were most likely a Guildford train possibly.

 

[nw1]

Another train I haven’t seen discussed much was a Portsmouth-Reading train in late 1970s or very early 1980s. Might have been every 2 hours and ran by Fareham, Eastleigh and Basingstoke, was operated by a 3H thumper DEMU. Used it once with some friends, and the particular unit had a single non gangwayed compartment, was only time I ever travelled on mainline Eastleigh-Basingstoke in a non-gangwayed compartment.

I remember seeing this in the timetables (1983/84), though by the time I moved to the Southampton area, not long before electrification, it had been split into hourly Eastleigh-Portsmouth and hourly Reading-Basingstoke, both with 3Hs. Can recall travelling on a 3H from Eastleigh-Botley and another from Hamble-Southampton (walking the Botley-Hamble bit) one day in March 1990, just two months before the electric service began. (The only other time I travelled on a 3H was in 1987 on a Watercress Line open day!)

It did run every two hours IIRC, and was one of the faster services between Basingstoke-Winchester-Eastleigh as it skipped Micheldever and Shawford. In the other hour there were separate Eastleigh-Portsmouth and Basingstoke-Reading services. I think Basingstoke-Reading only went WR in 1993 when the Turbos were introduced.

On Sundays I have the feeling this was formed with a 33+4TC, and provided Micheldever and Shawford's service (there being no through '93' from Waterloo on Sundays).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2021 ==

Yes I should have picked up on the Feltham stop on the Reading / Guildford's. I certainly remember them calling there. A xx12 / xx42 would make sense for a Windsor train as I recall never having to wait too long for a following Windsor service to get us back to Whitton.

I'm hoping timetable world website upload a late 80's timetable for the southern region at some stage.

Did the HAP's ever go to Reading? I do remember seeing HAP's on the Windsor side so these were most likely a Guildford train possibly.

They did, yes - someone up-thread mentioned it and I recall some HAP workings to Reading, too. 4VEP/4HAP was used on some evening peak services I think.

 

[Taunton]

I think Basingstoke-Reading only went WR in 1993 when the Turbos were introduced.

I think that Basingstoke to Reading has gone back and forth multiple times, plus being mixed. Even back in steam loco days you would find a WR 43xx with Southern green coaches.

 

[43096]

Did the HAP's ever go to Reading? I do remember seeing HAP's on the Windsor side so these were most likely a Guildford train possibly.

Well the first time I ever used the Reading line back in 1991 I had a CIG+HAP combination.

 

[Beebman]

On Sundays I have the feeling this was formed with a 33+4TC, and provided Micheldever and Shawford's service (there being no through '93' from Waterloo on Sundays).

Yes I can confirm that, one Sunday in 1980 I had a Reading-Portsmouth return jourmey with a 33+4TC.

They did, yes - someone up-thread mentioned it and I recall some HAP workings to Reading, too. 4VEP/4HAP was used on some evening peak services I think.

That was me As I said, my regular morning train into Waterloo in 1986/87 was a VEP+HAP combo.

Thinking back to the period 1980-83 when I commuted from Earley to Richmond while I was studying at a college there, I seem to recall that pretty much everything was CIGs although I did travel on at least some VEPs but I don't recall any HAPs. I did though once travel on an evening service in the winter of 1982 when snow-related disruption resulted in a formation of 4 x 2-EPBs (BR type). I also recall that I was once on an off-peak Reading-Waterloo service formed of a single SR type 4-EPB, again probably due to some sort of disruption.

 

[nw1]

Yes I can confirm that, one Sunday in 1980 I had a Reading-Portsmouth return jourmey with a 33+4TC.



Thinking back to the period 1980-83 when I commuted from Earley to Richmond while I was studying at a college there, I seem to recall that pretty much everything was CIGs although I did travel on at least some VEPs but I don't recall any HAPs. I did though once travel on an evening service in the winter of 1982 when snow-related disruption resulted in a formation of 4 x 2-EPBs (BR type). I also recall that I was once on an off-peak Reading-Waterloo service formed of a single SR type 4-EPB, again probably due to some sort of disruption.

I recall asking a member of BR staff around 1983 about stock on the Reading line, and he replied "CIGs, VEPs, and when they run out they use EPs"(sic) - obviously EPBs. Perhaps then at that point there were no HAPs.

As I said earlier I had a Reading workings book for 1985 (Reading station, so everything) and at that time 5 of the 6 diagrams off-peak were VEPs, so a definite CIG-VEP switch. All but one (the 1740 or so via Hounslow) evening peaks were also VEPs, or VEP/HAP combinations. However the SW division did not lose any CIGs between 1983 and 1985, and there were no more CIGs appearing on other lines, so they must have had quite a surplus of CIGs that year.

In 1988 more CIGs appeared on main-line services, and were also needed for the new Waterloo-Guildford via Ascot, which seems to suggest they were held in reserve until they were needed again. Guessing the preference for VEPs by then was their greater capacity.

 

[adc82140]

I don't remember an up through '97' in the morning at all, but that would have left Southampton quite early around 0750 so it may have escaped my attention. I do recall four-cars on some up stoppers around that time in the morning, so this could have been one of them. I presume it ran using the '93' stopping pattern (all to Woking) or was it a semi-fast calling something like Parkway, Eastleigh, Winchester, and Basingstoke before Fleet?

At one point I remember an 8VEP leaving Southampton at around that time in the morning (0750 ish) and I am fairly sure that was the late 90s also, probably very late 90s (1998 or 1999). This one started at Southampton, but without the timetables it's hard to say when the Lymington went.

As I recall it, the Lymington through train was all stations from Southampton to Woking, and may well have been all stations from Brockenhurst. I'll see if I can dig out a timetable.

 

[nw1]

As I recall it, the Lymington through train was all stations from Southampton to Woking, and may well have been all stations from Brockenhurst. I'll see if I can dig out a timetable.

OK great, thanks.

... as promised here is what I can remember of the final timetable pattern of the slam-door era. So, to paraphrase the famous Prince song, today we're going to introduce intensive timetables of slam-door stock and 442s like it's 1999. Note I have some gaps in my memory, detailed below.

Anyhow, 1999 brought in the 15-minute interval service on the Portsmouth Direct, but at that time this was timetabled at xx08, xx23, xx38, xx53. Also a 15-minute interval service to Southampton was introduced, at xx00, xx15, xx30 and xx45; the xx00 and xx30 heading to Poole and Weymouth respectively with a limited-stop pattern and the xx15 and xx45 picking up stops such as Eastleigh. 442s on the xx00 and xx30 and a mixture of CIGs and CEPs on the xx45, which extended to Bournemouth, possibly Poole, much like today's xx39, being looped at least once. The xx15 went to Southampton Central and was much the same as the xx10 from 1997; can't remember if there were still 159s on some off-peak services though.

So the pattern out of Waterloo was something like:
xx00 Poole
xx05 Salisbury; this was the year that two tph to Salisbury were introduced
xx08 Portsmouth
xx15 Southampton Central
xx20 Alton
xx23 Portsmouth
xx30 Weymouth
xx35 Exeter, think this was when it went hourly
xx38 Portsmouth
xx45 Bournemouth semi-fast, looped
xx50 Farnham
xx53 Portsmouth

I can not recall when the Basingstokes left; given they seem to maintain a very similar departure time each year, I would guess around xx10 and xx40. Also can't remember when the Woking stopper ran, or whether there was still a Guildford stopper calling at Clapham-Surbiton-Walton-Weybridge-West Byfleet then all; given Walton, Weybridge and West Byfleet had 4tph in 1997 I'd imagine they'd want to maintain that in this boom-era timetable, suggesting either the Guildford stopper still existed (would guess xx25 and xx55) or the Basingstokes took up these stops.

I know the xx08 and xx38 were the faster Portsmouths, and at that time all 4 went to Portsmouth. The pathing difficulties this caused led to some erratic stopping patterns: only one of the four was a genuine fast IIRC. The patterns were something like:

xx08 or xx38 genuine fast: Woking, Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, PSS, PH
xx23 or xx53 Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere and all (?)
xx38 or xx08 similar to the 'genuine fast' but called at Farncombe and Godalming
xx53 or xx23 genuine stopper, called at all. Looped at Haslemere, I think.

I think one side-effect was the 'two trains in 15 mins, then nothing for 45' pattern at Farncombe, Liphook and Liss.

I think also that the xx08 and xx38 were still 442s, and the xx23 and xx53 were CIGs and CEPs (no VEPs off-peak).

Between 1999 and 2004 some changes were made to give a simpler pattern, with the loss of 1tph at Liphook and Liss: one of the xx23/xx53 pair terminated at Haslemere calling all stations from Guildford, the other xx53/xx23 gained the Farncombe stop, with the xx08/xx38 both becoming genuinely fast. Also at some point the 442s left the Portsmouth line, probably because they were needed to double-up more SWML services - and VEPs appeared on off-peak services. I remember one of the Haslemere starters featuring blue VEP 3417 'Gordon Pettitt' in the final months of slam-door operation in summer 2004. Also by this time I think all four services interworked, so you got a mixture of CIGs and VEPs on the fasts and the stoppers.

On the main-line, again at some point between 1999 and 2004 the xx15 Southampton Central was diverted to Portsmouth via Fareham, restoring a semi-fast service on this route: a slightly different stopping pattern to that of 1990, fast to Basingstoke then all. Mix of CIGs and VEPs by then, interworking with Portsmouth-Southampton stoppers.

Also of note was that the 1999 diagramming seemed to be a bit random; I spent one day at Woking observing the new timetable in early June 1999 and noticed that the stock for a given up train wouldn't necessarily appear on any of the obvious candidate down services, and some stock would 'disappear' at Waterloo to be replaced with other stock which had just 'appeared'. It's as if, for whatever reason, there was a lot of ECS works to/from Clapham Yard in the middle of the day that year. Also more long formations off-peak, and the CEPs were with us by then. (Never worked out whether some services were diagrammed CEP, or whether there was a common CIG/CEP pool).

 

[adc82140]

I can not recall when the Basingstokes left; given they seem to maintain a very similar departure time each year, I would guess around xx10 and xx40.

The Basingstokes were xx:12 and xx:42 at this point. If I missed the xx:12 for Fleet I could catch the xx:15, overtake the stopper and change at Farnborough.

By this point 1tph of the Basingstokes was also calling at Walton, Weybridge and West Byfleet, leading to an irregular clock face beyond Woking.

 

[nw1]

The Basingstokes were xx:12 and xx:42 at this point. If I missed the xx:12 for Fleet I could catch the xx:15, overtake the stopper and change at Farnborough.

By this point 1tph of the Basingstokes was also calling at Walton, Weybridge and West Byfleet, leading to an irregular clock face beyond Woking.

Ah ok, thanks. I'd guess the one which made the stops was the xx12 (as that would then lead to even-spaced fast, or fast-ish, Farnborough departures at xx15 and xx42).

I would also guess from this that there was in fact no Guildford stopper that year (as the Basingstokes took up the '3 Ws' stops, or at least they did once an hour).

 

[AY1975]

I seem to recall that in BR days for some reason Sunday Waterloo-Reading trains tended to call at Putney for one timetable period every few years, then revert to non-stopping through Putney as during the rest of the week at the next timetable change. I could never understand why that was. I can't think of any reason why every few years there would suddenly be a demand for Sunday calls at Putney by Reading trains, then that demand would disappear at the end of that timetable period.

Since the early days of privatisation under South West Trains in the late 1990s, Sunday calls at Putney by Reading trains have been pretty much a permanent thing, though.

 

[nw1]

Staying (as with several recent posts) on the Reading lines, and related to the current thread on connection times - in the mid-80s timetables there was a tight connection of 2 mins at Ascot in both directions between the Waterloo-Reading and Ascot-Guildford: no doubt to compensate for the loss of the through service.

Was this regularly held if there were delays? Can't imagine the up Guildford-Ascot would be delayed much but the down Waterloo-Reading must have been reasonably often.

The '28' Guildford-Ascot shuttle did have very generous turnaround times at Guildford (as soon as one service left Platform 8, the next would arrive around three minutes later, so something like 27 minutes turnaround - also meant that the service needed 5 units off-peak when it could have theoretically used 4). So a hold at Ascot for the down Reading could presumably have been absorbed without too many side-effects.

 

[Grecian 1998]

xx35 Exeter, think this was when it went hourly

I think by 1999 services were more or less hourly as far as Gillingham (possibly with 1-2 gaps), but no further west, although there were lots of extra Yeovil Junction services to Waterloo in the morning peak and from Waterloo in the evening peak. Services became hourly as far as Yeovil Junction in December 2004 with the standard departure time becoming xx20. A full hourly service to Exeter started in December 2009.

xx00 Poole

I think this might have extended to Wareham, but not certain. Wareham had hourly terminating / starting services from 1988 until the second hourly train west of Poole was extended to Weymouth in 2007. However it was variable in different timetables as to whether this was an all stations stopper from Brockenhurst / Southampton / Portsmouth or an extension of the Poole semi-fast. As you say, always intended to be a 442 like the xx30, but not unknown for a 4CEP or 4CIG to substitute.

 

[nw1]

I think by 1999 services were more or less hourly as far as Gillingham (possibly with 1-2 gaps), but no further west, although there were lots of extra Yeovil Junction services to Waterloo in the morning peak and from Waterloo in the evening peak. Services became hourly as far as Yeovil Junction in December 2004 with the standard departure time becoming xx20. A full hourly service to Exeter started in December 2009.

Ah ok, looks like I got the date of the hourly Exeter badly 'out' !
I did visit Tisbury semi-regularly from 2009-19 once or twice a year (this may resume next year) and the service always seemed to be hourly in that period, but looks like only just.

I think this might have extended to Wareham, but not certain. Wareham had hourly terminating / starting services from 1988 until the second hourly train west of Poole was extended to Weymouth in 2007. However it was variable in different timetables as to whether this was an all stations stopper from Brockenhurst / Southampton / Portsmouth or an extension of the Poole semi-fast. As you say, always intended to be a 442 like the xx30, but not unknown for a 4CEP or 4CIG to substitute.

You could be right there, I mostly remember the Wareham terminators as being stoppers but I do vaguely recall one period with 442 fasts terminating there. Reminds me of my first trip west of Brockenhurst in October 1989: did a walk from Parkstone to Corfe Castle via Studland and the downs, returning to Wareham by bus and then train back to Southampton. Outbound was a 442 (this must have been my first trip on a 442) and return was a CIG which originated at Wareham.

 

[Taunton]

Staying (as with several recent posts) on the Reading lines, and related to the current thread on connection times - in the mid-80s timetables there was a tight connection of 2 mins at Ascot in both directions between the Waterloo-Reading and Ascot-Guildford: no doubt to compensate for the loss of the through service.

Was this regularly held if there were delays? Can't imagine the up Guildford-Ascot would be delayed much but the down Waterloo-Reading must have been reasonably often.

The '28' Guildford-Ascot shuttle did have very generous turnaround times at Guildford (as soon as one service left Platform 8, the next would arrive around three minutes later, so something like 27 minutes turnaround - also meant that the service needed 5 units off-peak when it could have theoretically used 4). So a hold at Ascot for the down Reading could presumably have been absorbed without too many side-effects.

More recent times, but despite the now 10 minutes connection I have written here more than once about the Camberley/Guildford train being dispatched just as a 10 minutes late Reading train arrives with all its passengers

"Third of trains on some of Londons busiest commuter lines ran late last year" | Page 2 | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

Whenever the Reading train gets stuck behind a stopper on the local track out to Barnes, for various reasons, it seems to lose just 10 minutes, never regain it, and do this infuriating just-miss at Ascot, the connection leaving empty as there's no real demand for starting from there.