Sprinters in Multiple

[PHILIPE]

I have been a DMU Diagrammer and involved with Pacers and was never aware of any restriction on a Pacer being formed between 2 Sprinters. If there was, it would have been included in our Working Compendium which was our "Bible". There were never any comebacks when such formations operated.

 

[Kite159]

South West Trains run a daily ten car train formed of 2 car 158, 2 car 158, 3 car 159, 3 car 159.

06:4x from Salisbury to Waterloo

08:50 Waterloo to Salisbury (although the rear 158 is normally locked out of use due to short platforms at overton & whitchurch)

Unless it changed since last year.

 

[WatcherZero]

I have been a DMU Diagrammer and involved with Pacers and was never aware of any restriction on a Pacer being formed between 2 Sprinters. If there was, it would have been included in our Working Compendium which was our "Bible". There were never any comebacks when such formations operated.

Perhaps it was between Turbostars then, also trying to peel back the mists of a couple of decades old memory it may have been the electrical connection for brakes that was lost rather than some engine features.

 

[455driver]

Not sure if it would be allowed to run in normal service, but BR ScotRail tried a 12 car 156 as a test:

It would subject to platform lengths.
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Theres also the limitation you cant sandwhich a pacer in a multiple sprinter formula, you can have Pacer-Sprinter-Sprinter but not Sprinter-Pacer-Sprinter, something to do with engine control commands not passing through a pacer couplers.

Somebody had better tell FGW oops GWR then because they sometimes run pacers in the middle of 150 and 153s or even on one occasion a 158,143,153 combo without issue.

It certainly isn't something I have heard of!

 

[chrissawer]

Unless my eyes are deceiving me, two 150s with a 142 in between just pulled into platform 3 at Manchester Victoria. I was too slow to get a picture, sorry.

 

[Geeves]

There are definitely no issues of having a 142 anywhere in your consist otherwise it would life a nightmare at Victoria.

All aboard!

 

[BurtonM]

There's an ECS move that stops a while in Stalybridge from Manchester Piccadilly on its way to Newton Heath most days at about 11/11:30. It's usually 2 or 3x142.

 

[Strathclyder]

No Pacers up in Scotland, but saw a 170/150 combo once.

In the same vein, 170/156 combos can sometimes occur up here in Scotrail land, mostly on ECS workings:


It can also very rarely occur on revenue-earning services:
[youtube]?v=WZ_HJglbInE[/youtube]

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

No Pacers up in Scotland, but saw a 170/150 combo once.

Technically true, but they have been known to go up to Glasgow for works attention

 

[40129]

In the West Midlands cl-170+153 combos are quite normal on the Chase line at least

Edited to add that 3x cl-158 sometimes appear between New Street and Shrewsbury

 

[WillPS]

Perhaps it was between Turbostars then, also trying to peel back the mists of a couple of decades old memory it may have been the electrical connection for brakes that was lost rather than some engine features.

Turbostars and Pacers haven't been tested for compatibility at all AFAIK. 156s can only work in multiple with Turbostars after a modification to prevent an alarm sounding constantly in the 156 cab - I doubt Northern's 156s will have had this since they've never had to couple to Turbostars.

There was an incident in Central Trains years where a 153 was added to the back of a 170, and without realising that the driver (sat in a 170 cab) took it up to 100mph. I don't know if that triggered a local ban on Sprinters sandwiched between Turbos.

 

[PHILIPE]

In the West Midlands cl-170+153 combos are quite normal on the Chase line at least

Edited to add that 3x cl-158 sometimes appear between New Street and Shrewsbury

Nothing unusual about this at all.

 

[WillPS]

Nothing unusual about this at all.

Hence "quite normal"...

 

[devinier]

So, did those Pacers survive it? Would this suggest that Pacers could be faster if not limited by their engines, or is it just a question of engineering tolerances on the Pacers allowing them to go above design speed of 75mph?

Pacers, and all Sprinters other than 158/159, do not have dampers between the coach body and the bogies to reduce lateral body movement at high speed. This is the main reason they are limited to 75mph.

 

[Nym]

Well, pacers defiantly don't...(!)

 

[devinier]

Indeed !! They don't even have bogies.....
They are a bogie.

 

[HSTEd]

Which unit combination is it that is supposed to work but will cause a buzzer to sound continuously if it is actually attempted?

I can't remember unfortunately.

 

[Nym]

Originally it was Turbostar and Class 153 IIRC.

 

[Wolf]

And a 158/142 combination makes for an odd sight!

Northern have a booked service in a morning Leeds -hebden bridge and back using a 158+14x. Worked this morning, 158 and 144 and it was actually one of the most powerful trains I've ever driven. Guards don't particular like them as they can't get all the way down their train to do revenue but I think they actually work really well together.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Northern have a booked service in a morning Leeds -hebden bridge and back using a 158+14x. Worked this morning, 158 and 144 and it was actually one of the most powerful trains I've ever driven. Guards don't particular like them as they can't get all the way down their train to do revenue but I think they actually work really well together.

The 1725 Leeds to Manchester Victoria via Dewsbury is usually 142+158 too. When first announced at Leeds often only the 142 is in the platform and it gets very crowded. When the 158 is added at the York end there's plenty of room!

 

[WillPS]

Originally it was Turbostar and Class 153 IIRC.

156s. http://members.madasafish.com/~dysgraphyk/156/class156_mods.htm

 

[Bungle965]

158s with 170 were not common up untill recent in Scotland but they have started to be used together more becasue of the electrification works i belive.
Sam

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Do individual class 158/159 units have any limit on the number of intermediate coaches they could have (proper ones, not just "cab end" coaches)?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Do individual class 158/159 units have any limit on the number of intermediate coaches they could have (proper ones, not just "cab end" coaches)?

Whilst I can not speculate as to that, I was once on a 158 that was made up with two intermediates - surprised me so much I got out again to check for cab ends!

 

[PHILIPE]

158s with 170 were not common up untill recent in Scotland but they have started to be used together more becasue of the electrification works i belive.
Sam

158+170 combinations have been running in Scotland for years. I travelled on such a combo 12 years ago on the Inverness to Aberdeen route. They have regularly worked between Inverness and Edinburgh and have had booked working in the past.

 

[dk1]

158+170 combinations have been running in Scotland for years. I travelled on such a combo 12 years ago on the Inverness to Aberdeen route. They have regularly worked between Inverness and Edinburgh and have had booked working in the past.

Sunday afternoons a 170/158 combo was commonplace. I was always more concerned which one housed the catering trolley.

 

[driver9000]

Do individual class 158/159 units have any limit on the number of intermediate coaches they could have (proper ones, not just "cab end" coaches)?

Going on the logic of 'cabs' I would imagine you could have 10 MS vehicles between the DMS vehicles of a 158 giving a 12 coach train. The original BR working instructions book for the 158 mentions units being formed DMS-MS-MS-DMS but I don't think formations like that were common. If I come across my 158 centre car brief I'll see if it mentions the restrictions on multiple working.

 

[najaB]

Sunday afternoons a 170/158 combo was commonplace. I was always more concerned which one housed the catering trolley.

More often than not the 170, though I've always noticed that a lot of passengers are more concerned with which one doesn't contain the guard.

 

[capital12]

Seen in Cardiff over the last couple of weekends on Rugby specials...

ATW 150+150+153+153 (8 cars)
GWR 153+158/9+150/9 (8 cars)
GWR 150/9+150/9+153+153 (8 cars)
GWR 150+158/9+150+158/9 (10 cars)

Certainly some mixed formations there!

 

[PHILIPE]

Seen in Cardiff over the last couple of weekends on Rugby specials...

ATW 150+150+153+153 (8 cars)
GWR 153+158/9+150/9 (8 cars)
GWR 150/9+150/9+153+153 (8 cars)
GWR 150+158/9+150+158/9 (10 cars)

Certainly some mixed formations there!

The first two add up to 6 and 7 respectively.