Splitting with U-zone tickets

[redreni]

If somebody had a ticket from Zones U1-2 to a destination east of London (say Chelmsford) and they wanted to begin their journey west of London (say Staines), would this combination of tickets be valid (complying, of course, with the 'via Kew Gardens' restriction on the first ticket)?

• CDS Staines to Zones U34 route via Kew Gardens
• DOS Zone U12 to Chelmsford

If that combination is valid, is there any requirement for the London Underground or Elizabeth Line train used to cross from Zone 3 into Zone 2, to call at a station that is in both Zone 3 and Zone 2?

In this example, the District Line train would call at such a station (Turnham Green), but is that important with TfL zonal tickets, or is it enough that the combination of tickets covers the zones travelled through? Are combinations of tickets even acceptable on TfL services?

What if your route is via changes at Richmond, Turnham Green, Ealing Broadway and Liverpool Street. In that case you cross from Zone 3 to Zone 2 between Action Main Line (Zone 3) and Paddington (Zone 1). Is that permitted with this combination?

 

[MrJeeves]

I don't think there's one answer to this.

You couldn't consider it a zonal split, but National Rail rules don't apply on LUL. In my view, that includes when you use LUL zonal validity from a National Rail ticket on a National Rail service.

Is the part of the journey from Zone 2 to Zone 3 ever covered, unless it's a Z2/3 station you stop at? I would initially say no, but if you consider it an area, it would be surely?

If you had two hypothetical Travelcards for radial zones (e.g. Zone 1-2 and another Zone 3-6), would you be able to take services between those zones?

 

[redreni]

Thanks @MrJeeves .

I've just remembered that TfL doesn't regard U Zone tickets as valid on the Elizabeth Line at all west of Paddington, which would presumably rule out the Ealing Broadway route on that journey.

A better example to bring out the ambiguity I'm asking about might be a Zone U12 to High Wycombe ticket in combination with, say, a Dartford to Zone U34, going via Abbey Wood, Paddington and Marylebone. In that example, you are on the core section of the Elizabeth Line so U zone tickets are valid, but you have to go from Custom House (Zone 3) to Canary Wharf (Zone 2) using both tickets on a non-stop split.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 May 2026 ==

If you had two hypothetical Travelcards for radial zones (e.g. Zone 1-2 and another Zone 3-6), would you be able to take services between those zones?

I wonder what a National Rail Smartcard would do if you had a monthly Zone 3-4 and a weekly Zone 1-2 Travelcard loaded onto it.

Presumably it would be fine to go anywhere in Zones 1-4, including non-stop between Zone 3 stations and zone 2 stations? But those are seasons. I'm not sure if anyone remembers what the rules were when day Travelcards were available for different combinations of zones?

 

[Benjwri]

I've just remembered that TfL doesn't regard U Zone tickets as valid on the Elizabeth Line at all west of Paddington, which would presumably rule out the Ealing Broadway route on that journey.

A better example to bring out the ambiguity I'm asking about might be a Zone U12 to High Wycombe ticket in combination with, say, a Dartford to Zone U34, going via Abbey Wood, Paddington and Marylebone. In that example, you are on the core section of the Elizabeth Line so U zone tickets are valid, but you have to go from Custom House (Zone 3) to Canary Wharf (Zone 2) using both tickets on a non-stop split.

I would say this still isn’t valid. Even if you assume a non stop split is allowed, this isn’t valid. The NRCOT requires that:

The last station at which one ticket is valid and the first station that the other ticket is valid are the same

There is no common station which the two tickets are valid. Their validity might border, but it does not overlap.

I think at a station within two zones you would have much more of an argument to do a stopping split between those zones at that station.

I wonder what a National Rail Smartcard would do if you had a monthly Zone 3-4 and a weekly Zone 1-2 Travelcard loaded onto it.

Presumably it would be fine to go anywhere in Zones 1-4, including non-stop between Zone 3 stations and zone 2 stations? But those are seasons. I'm not sure if anyone remembers what the rules were when day Travelcards were available for different combinations of zones?

A National Rail smartcard with a ticket from Edinburgh to Haymarket, and one from Finsbury Park to Kings Cross, won’t complain about a journey from Edinburgh to Kings Cross, it doesn’t mean the tickets are valid for the journey.

 

[redreni]

I would say this still isn’t valid. Even if you assume a non stop split is allowed, this isn’t valid. The NRCOT requires that: ["The last station at which one ticket is valid and the first station that the other ticket is valid are the same"]

There is no common station which the two tickets are valid. Their validity might border, but it does not overlap.

Taking that provision to its logical conclusion, though, it allows neither gaps in validity (stations where neither ticket is valid) nor overlaps (stations where both are valid). So a Zones U1-2 in combination with a Zones 2-4 wouldn't be valid either, since the first station at which the U1-2 ticket is valid would be Canary Wharf and the last station at which the Zones 2-4 ticket would be valid would be Whitechapel, and those are two different stations.

This particular clause of the NRCoT is impossible to comply with when splitting on the Elizabeth Line core because you would need tickets between named stations.

Unless - maybe you're supposed to buy a ticket to the zone boundary? So DFD to Boundary Zone 2 plus Zone U1-2 to High Wycombe?

 

[Benjwri]

Taking that provision to its logical conclusion, though, it allows neither gaps in validity (stations where neither ticket is valid) nor overlaps (stations where both are valid). So a Zones U1-2 in combination with a Zones 2-4 wouldn't be valid either, since the first station at which the U1-2 ticket is valid would be Canary Wharf and the last station at which the Zones 2-4 ticket would be valid would be Whitechapel, and those are two different stations.

This particular clause of the NRCoT is impossible to comply with when splitting on the Elizabeth Line core because you would need tickets between named stations.

Unless - maybe you're supposed to buy a ticket to the zone boundary? So DFD to Boundary Zone 2 plus Zone U1-2 to High Wycombe?

The clause only refers to non stop splits, so the split you mention would be perfectly possible, as no Elizabeth Line trains are booked to run non stop in the core.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The purpose of the non-stop split rule is primarily to allow people to extend journeys on existing held season tickets and to get into the area of zonal tickets such as Travelcards and rovers/rangers, either using point to point or boundary zone fares. Thus I think in theory it indeed isn't really intended to allow an overlap, though I think in practice it is accepted if there is one provided there is validity in common. It's also useful for creating something akin to a Travelcard season if that Combined Authority doesn't offer an outboundary one, e.g. combining a season from Chorley to Blackrod with a TfGM CountyCard, or whatever that is called this week. (I say Chorley specifically as that used to have a sign in the booking office window suggesting doing exactly this!)

For instance, if I wanted to use a non-stop Avanti service to MKC on a Bletchley<->Euston season I could combine it with a Bletchley-MKC single. There wouldn't be much benefit, for that intended use case, of buying a Leighton Buzzard-MKC one unless it was cheaper.

It could probably do with being reworded to "the last station at which the first ticket is being used and the first one at which the second ticket is being used are the same, and these tickets would be valid for this if the train did actually stop at that station".

 

[Benjwri]

I'm also abit unsure what the purpose of this would be anyways? Because of how the zonal tickets are priced I don't think you're ever going to financially gain? In fact I think it would be the opposite? The initial example you give is nearly £3 cheaper to just get a Staines to Richmond and a Zones 1-4 to Essex ticket. Even cheaper if you just buy a through ticket with a Maltese Cross.

 

[redreni]

I'm also abit unsure what the purpose of this would be anyways? Because of how the zonal tickets are priced I don't think you're ever going to financially gain? In fact I think it would be the opposite? The initial example you give is nearly £3 cheaper to just get a Staines to Richmond and a Zones 1-4 to Essex ticket. Even cheaper if you just buy a through ticket with a Maltese Cross.

No, well I'm not posting the journeys where it's potentially advantageous.