Splitting Trains - Poll and Chat

[London Trains]

Vote in the poll and talk about whether they are good or bad.
I believe they are good, increasing capacity closer to terminals, and serving more stations further out.

 

[SWT_USER]

They can be a good idea, for example the Southern coastway services (in my limited experience), but they can be a bad idea - like SWT joining/splitting the Weymouth/ Portsmouth services at Eastleigh on Sundays in the days before ASDO - meaning anyone wanting to alight at Clapham Junction had to walk through to the correct part of the train.

 

[swt_passenger]

They can be a good idea, for example the Southern coastway services (in my limited experience), but they can be a bad idea - like SWT joining/splitting the Weymouth/ Portsmouth services at Eastleigh on Sundays in the days before ASDO - meaning anyone wanting to alight at Clapham Junction had to walk through to the correct part of the train.

It's Poole and Portsmouth services join, to be accurate. In the overall scheme of things the Clapham Junction call wasn't much of a problem was it? There were probably as many people moving just because they wanted to be at the front on arrival at Waterloo...

 

[WelshBluebird]

Can we have an option for "good if gangway doors allowing movement between portions, bad if passengers have to alight to move between portions"?

 

[London Trains]

Done @WelshBluebird

 

[WelshBluebird]

Done @WelshBluebird

Cheers!
That is very much my opinion. Of course in an ideal world we'd have enough train, crew and capacity on the network to be able to run separate non dividing services. But back in the real world we do sometimes have to deal with it, but I think it is pretty anti passenger to potentially force people to alight to move between portions (especially when you also consider in some places where this happens, you also get short platforms which mean some people have no choice but to join a train in a particular section, which may be the wrong one for where they are going).

 

[London Trains]

They can be a good idea, for example the Southern coastway services (in my limited experience), but they can be a bad idea - like SWT joining/splitting the Weymouth/ Portsmouth services at Eastleigh on Sundays in the days before ASDO - meaning anyone wanting to alight at Clapham Junction had to walk through to the correct part of the train.

This would be a great idea now every day to add another slot on the SWML because of ASDO now, meaning short platforms aren't an issue.

 

[Harbouring]

This would be a great idea now every day to add another slot on the SWML because of ASDO now, meaning short platforms aren't an issue.

During the week these services run at variable lengths, anywhere from 4-12 cars and 5 or 10 cars whereas as the weekend it's a lot easier because it's always 2 5 car 444 that joined.

 

[nw1]

Generally good as they can help reduce the number of occupied paths on busy stretches of line while still allowing through services from the origin.

Another case is the "shedding carriages" variant, where trains split at a point where the service becomes quieter and the rear portion is then sent to the sidings or put on the front of the next "up" train (e.g. Bournemouth sometimes). Again a good idea to save stock and avoid sending long trains down lines with light use.

Yet another is the split/join at terminals variant (as happens at Waterloo), to avoid unnecessarily long trains running around in the off-peak period (say 1100 to 1500), which again on the face of it sounds good as it saves resources, though there seem to be more longer trains (e.g. 8 rather than 4 car) running around in the middle of the day on medium-distance services (Alton, Basingstoke, Portsmouth via Eastleigh, etc) than previously.

 

[SWT_USER]

It's Poole and Portsmouth services join, to be accurate. In the overall scheme of things the Clapham Junction call wasn't much of a problem was it? There were probably as many people moving just because they wanted to be at the front on arrival at Waterloo...

I found it annoying traveling back from Bournemouth after a weekend, having to carry luggage through 3 coaches to reach the front 5. I didn't know that was how it worked at the time, not ideal if you have a pushchair or are a wheelchair user either.

Not an issue anymore anyway.

 

[NSE]

I think they’re a great idea. Particularly since PIS started saying ‘You’re in coach X of Y’. I think it’s a great way to help capacity.

Also, bit of trivia, I remember reading that once there was a service from somewhere on what is now Southern territory that split towards London, with a portion to London Victoria and London Bridge. Apparently it was the only service to divide towards London and attach on the way out. Great idea, but I totally get that you wouldn’t a train failing to attach at East Croydon during the peak.

 

[Kite159]

Useful for services West of Salisbury where 6 cars is the limit as it means services East can be formed of 8/9/10 carriages with the rear unit either coming out of service or carrying on to Bristol.

You just need to remember to be in the front unit departing Exeter if you want to get off at Clapham

 

[tsr]

I think they’re a great idea. Particularly since PIS started saying ‘You’re in coach X of Y’. I think it’s a great way to help capacity.

Also, bit of trivia, I remember reading that once there was a service from somewhere on what is now Southern territory that split towards London, with a portion to London Victoria and London Bridge. Apparently it was the only service to divide towards London and attach on the way out. Great idea, but I totally get that you wouldn’t a train failing to attach at East Croydon during the peak.

Normally, as you perhaps imply, splitting / attaching trains in the Southern area are about adding the maximum number of coaches to trains in the London zones (not just in the peaks, but especially at those times) whilst still serving the maximum number of outer stations.

There are few Southern / South Central ish area branch lines which are so squeezed for capacity and connection opportunities that they can only accommodate one train heading north, with a divide to serve two separate destinations. In fact, there aren't really any, once stock types and so on are taken into account.

Therefore, the only reason that would need to be done would probably be to balance stock between termini. Running "contra-peak" trains to get stock into termini, either out of service or with limited stops, is now the preferred alternative to move trains around.

Aside from all that... you can only split or attach trains in Platforms 4 and 5 at East Croydon anyway, as they are the only ones with permissive working. That rather limits the success of the plan if platform workings go wrong. This is probably one reason that this isn't done at this location any more!

 

[Bromley boy]

Generally a good thing as they enable efficient use to be made of stock and particularly pathing in the crowded ex southern region.

Of course they need to be accompanied by clear announcements, and generally are. Despite this I've observed that people often still end up on the wrong portion of the train due to not listening or not paying sufficient attention to their surroundings. Unfortunately this is just hard luck.

On balance the positives far outweigh the negatives.

 

[Clip]

Yep trains that split/join are great for capacity. Having spent my former years travelling on the Ramsgate/Dover services I can not say a bad word about them and they should be used more often where needed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

End gangways between units are pretty much unheard of in Germany, but that doesn't prevent DB Regio from running services which depart from say, Nürnberg Hauptbahnhof as 3x2-car units with portions splitting off at various points en-route.