Splitting singles to use a railcard

[trevwilliams]

Last Tuesday i was travelling from Rochester (RTR) to Gatwick Airport (GTW) and had to begin my journey on the 9:52 to Victoria. I have a Network Railcard but due to T&Cs couldnt use it befor 10:00. As the 9:52 was due to stop at Meopham (MEP) at 10:03. I decided to buy two singles: one from RTR to MEP at full single fare and then one from MEP to GTW using the railcard. On arriving at RTR ticket office I explained what I wanted to do and was told it wasnt permitted and that I would need to disembark and buy my ticket from MEP ticket office. The staff member did sell me both tickets but made it clear that they were making an exception. I was sure that it was allowed but just wanted to check with you good people. Was I in error or the booking staff?

 

[district]

I'm sure you've done nothing wrong and the booking clerk was incorrect. There is nothing wrong with splitting tickets to be able to use a railcard.

It is, however, unsurprising that this has happened, because ticket offices can be hit or miss.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Assuming there is nothing more to this (no offense intended), there is no real reason the clerk could not have sold them, in fact I have sold split tickets for that reason before, though only when asked specifically for them. However, the clerk may be under instruction not to do it, or if the sales window was advertised as selling only specific tickets they could refuse.

The Network card seems unusual in having discounts 'for travel after 1000hrs' whereas other Railcards are, strictly speaking, for 'journeys starting after 1000hrs'.

 

[jon0844]

Thanks so much for this - I'd never thought about it before!

While I am sure I will encounter problems at Hatfield trying to buy such a combination (I suspect I'll end up booking in advance online and collecting them there), I've discovered that I can travel one train earlier (which can be very useful at times) and pay less than simply buying non-discounted Off-Peak Travelcard, by splitting as follows.

HAT-PBR £3.50 single
HAT-Z16 £13 (minimum fare on Network Railcard)
Total £16.50

Off peak Travelcard £17.50 from Hatfield - a saving of £1 which isn't too shabby.

This enables me to get the 0955 train (departs Potters Bar at 1001), which gets me in to London 30 minutes earlier. Or, if I want, I can go to Potters Bar even earlier and get off to have breakfast to get back for the 1001!

 

[yorkie]

Complain to SouthEastern, they are wrong (again! I think SET, as a Company, have no intention of fully complying with their oblogations as defined in the TSA and NRCoC, there is plenty of evidence of frequent breaches and they never seem to implement appropriate steps to ensure they act correctly in future)

If no suitable action is taken by SET, go to Passenger Focus and ATOC.

They are in breach of the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA), compliance with this is a franchise commitment, and is not optional.

This matter has already gone to court and the customer won. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but you may wish to threaten them with legal action if they do not comply...

"COMBINATION OF TICKETS – RETAIL COMPLIANCE AND UNDERSTANDING OF CONDITION 17 OF NATIONAL RAIL CONITIONS OF CARRIAGE (NRCoC)

Following a recent Court case there has been some confusion over the sale of more than one ticket for use on a train journey. This item is intended to clarify the position.
When a customer asks for the cheapest ticket you are not obliged to offer them a combination of tickets. However, if a customer specifically asks for a particular combination of tickets you must sell those tickets, as long as your office has the necessary fares manuals, ticket issuing system and/or reservation facilities to do so.
NRCoC 17b allows a passenger to use two or more tickets as long as they cover the entire journey and the train the passenger is travelling on calls at the station where they change from one ticket to another. There is no requirement for the passenger to change trains or momentarily step onto the platform."

I trust you obtained their names? If not, it should be quite easy for SET to identify them and ensure they are given appropriate advice and training.

 

[trevwilliams]

Many thanks for all your replies. I didn't get the name of the booking clerk but I know that they are often there when I get my tickets. I may well do this journey again so I will mention the clarification that Yorke has posted and see what the response is. The booking clerk is quite nice so I'm sure there won't be a problem.

 

[Be3G]

Thanks so much for this - I'd never thought about it before!

While I am sure I will encounter problems at Hatfield trying to buy such a combination (I suspect I'll end up booking in advance online and collecting them there), I've discovered that I can travel one train earlier (which can be very useful at times) and pay less than simply buying non-discounted Off-Peak Travelcard, by splitting as follows.

HAT-PBR £3.50 single
HAT-Z16 £13 (minimum fare on Network Railcard)
Total £16.50

Off peak Travelcard £17.50 from Hatfield - a saving of £1 which isn't too shabby.

This enables me to get the 0955 train (departs Potters Bar at 1001), which gets me in to London 30 minutes earlier. Or, if I want, I can go to Potters Bar even earlier and get off to have breakfast to get back for the 1001!

Yep it's a handy trick. Going to a funeral my mother needed to travel from Gordon Hill to Royston once, leaving just before the peak time ended (obviously with a funeral there was no flexibility with the times) so I suggested an anytime day return to Bayford then a NGC-discounted off-peak day return from there to the destination. I don't recall any difficulty in trying to buy the tickets either.

 

[craigwilson]

Originally Posted by ATOC in Newsrail Express 246
"COMBINATION OF TICKETS – RETAIL COMPLIANCE AND UNDERSTANDING OF CONDITION 17 OF NATIONAL RAIL CONITIONS OF CARRIAGE (NRCoC)

Following a recent Court case there has been some confusion over the sale of more than one ticket for use on a train journey. This item is intended to clarify the position.
When a customer asks for the cheapest ticket you are not obliged to offer them a combination of tickets. However, if a customer specifically asks for a particular combination of tickets you must sell those tickets, as long as your office has the necessary fares manuals, ticket issuing system and/or reservation facilities to do so.
NRCoC 17b allows a passenger to use two or more tickets as long as they cover the entire journey and the train the passenger is travelling on calls at the station where they change from one ticket to another. There is no requirement for the passenger to change trains or momentarily step onto the platform."

Condition 19 (b) surely? Dear me ATOC...:roll:

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It used to be 17, Newsrail Express hasn't had a printed edition for years.

 

[snail]

The Network card seems unusual in having discounts 'for travel after 1000hrs' whereas other Railcards are, strictly speaking, for 'journeys starting after 1000hrs'.

Only in the Network Card area. Senior railcards and F&F railcards can be used anytime outside that area and 16-25 railcards have a minimum fare of £12 before 1000 to discourage commuting.

 

[jon0844]

While I get stiffed with a minimum of £13 after 10am!

 

[Be3G]

Indeed. I'm currently on my final 16–25 railcard (assuming I don't go back to uni one day). Not looking forward to having to make do with a Network railcard thereafter.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Indeed. I'm currently on my final 16–25 railcard (assuming I don't go back to uni one day). Not looking forward to having to make do with a Network railcard thereafter.

Atleast you get to have a Railcard many people aren't so fortunate.

 

[soil]

Have some kids. Then you can get a F+F

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Some people might need to find a partner first, not sure a random person would like to have kids with a complete stranger.

 

[soil]

Telling them they can get 30% off offpeak travel is in IME an excellent chat up line.

 

[IanD]

Some people might need to find a partner first, not sure a random person would like to have kids with a complete stranger.

You could just borrow some, they don't have to be yours. Although you should seek the parent's permission first.

 

[bb21]

Have some kids. Then you can get a F+F

I'm not sure the financial benefits of a F&F Railcard will be worth the costs of bringing a child up (unless the OP already wanted a child anyway). Well, not if done in a proper way.

 

[David Goddard]

Thanks so much for this - I'd never thought about it before!

While I am sure I will encounter problems at Hatfield trying to buy such a combination (I suspect I'll end up booking in advance online and collecting them there), I've discovered that I can travel one train earlier (which can be very useful at times) and pay less than simply buying non-discounted Off-Peak Travelcard, by splitting as follows.

HAT-PBR £3.50 single
HAT-Z16 £13 (minimum fare on Network Railcard)
Total £16.50

Off peak Travelcard £17.50 from Hatfield - a saving of £1 which isn't too shabby.

I have done similar at Winchfield, boarding the 0935 to London with a Discounted TCD and a single to Farnborough. Have to alight at Fleet (best) or Farnborough, then get on the following train which gets into Waterloo just two minutes later than the 0935, but save a few pounds in the process.

Had a problem buying it at first, but when I got the ticket clerk to listen properly he issued it without further delay.

 

[Be3G]

Have some kids. Then you can get a F+F

That'd mean putting up with them whilst travelling too though.

 

[stanley T]

OK, this coming weekend I plan to travel to Pershore from Paddington, I have a senior railcard. I also have a Freedom Pass.

Can I get a ticket from zone 6 instead of Paddington, using the Freedom Pass for the first leg? The train does not stop in zone 6 (in fact first stop is Slough). As I read the rules, that is not allowed, but someone please confirm?

 

[soil]

OK, this coming weekend I plan to travel to Pershore from Paddington, I have a senior railcard. I also have a Freedom Pass.

Can I get a ticket from zone 6 instead of Paddington, using the Freedom Pass for the first leg? The train does not stop in zone 6 (in fact first stop is Slough). As I read the rules, that is not allowed, but someone please confirm?

Zonal splits are perfectly fine on non-stop trains.

You can buy a Boundary Zone 6 to Pershore ticket:

http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=0072&dest=PSH&rlc=