Splitfare website

[DaveNewcastle]

I hope some of you have benefitted from the service offered by this website over the past few months. It determined the cheapest combnation of split tickets which would legitimately get a passenger from A to B (without actually having to get off and on differrent trains). I became aware of difficulties with the service when there was a sudden flurry of legal notices of changes being posted to Companies House last month.
Now, we can all see what has happened :-
click http://www.splitfare.co.uk
and you get a holding page which says :
SplitFare is down for maintenance.
This is due to the rail industry wanting to rip off rail users

I don't know who might have sent a legal letter to whom, but I'd be very VERY interested in examining it to determine the grounds for disabling that web site. (Anyone want to PM me about this?)

 

[jopsuk]

Stab in the dark: possibly something to do with where they were getting their fare information from?

 

[LondonLarry]

The fare information wasn't up to date on their website. I discovered the site last month and it was showing fares from Jan 08. It wasn't accurate either - there are some cheaper West Coast and LSE ticket combinations that weren't picked up!

 

[beanieboy]

the site will be back up soon & new updates are being tested. the data is correct and upto date. the site use to search for exactly what ppl asked for nothing more nothing less i.e search for a return ticket it will show prices for a return tickets, not two singles as a return. new site will have more features in terms of flexibilty.

 

[yorkie]

Is this a legal battle or a technical one or both? Clearly Thecrapline are not happy but the question is what can they do about it? I guess they have changed the way the site works to prevent queries from Splitfare working, but I'd also like to know if they are trying to stop the queries.

 

[jopsuk]

Hmm, I've little sympathy for them if they were scraping another company's website for data. Especially if the people running the site were in any way financially benefiting.
If they want to play the game properly, they really need to come to a proper agreement with thetrainline, or, alternatively, get a licence to use something such as the Avantix software as a backend.

I realise thetrainline is a horrible website, and that ATOC are seemingly opposed to the principal of split fares, but putting yourself in a questionable legal situation is stupid.

 

[beanieboy]

Is this a legal battle or a technical one or both? Clearly Thecrapline are not happy but the question is what can they do about it? I guess they have changed the way the site works to prevent queries from Splitfare working, but I'd also like to know if they are trying to stop the queries.

neither.

trainline have nothing to do with the site in a legal or techinal capacity .there are just tradedoubler links to trainline on site to cover website costs. site has no adverts nor makes money.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hmm, I've little sympathy for them if they were scraping another company's website for data. Especially if the people running the site were in any way financially benefiting.
If they want to play the game properly, they really need to come to a proper agreement with thetrainline, or, alternatively, get a licence to use something such as the Avantix software as a backend.

I realise thetrainline is a horrible website, and that ATOC are seemingly opposed to the principal of split fares, but putting yourself in a questionable legal situation is stupid.

again site has nothing to do with trainline. sites make no money and is free to use. site will be up again soon.

 

[beanieboy]

use something such as the Avantix software as a backend.

 

[tony_mac]

is that supposed to say that you are using Avantix as a backend?

Is there any particular reason for the cryptic posts?

 

[krus_aragon]

Stab in the dark: possibly something to do with where they were getting their fare information from?

I wouldn't expect that any web firm that obtained the information by 'farming' the numbers off the NRE website wouldn't be very popular: ATOC do have some sort of procedure by which companies can pay for access to their data feeds, and they'd obviously prefer to sell the information.

With regard to using Avantix Traveller/NFM for this purpose, at the bottom of the Readme.txt file in NFM03, a copyright notice includes this excerpt:

... This work (either in whole or in part) must not be modified, reproduced, disclosed or disseminated to others or used for purposes other than that for which it is supplied, without the prior written permission of Atos Origin. ...

Although it doesn't mention what purposes it is supplied for, a lawyer may well argue that this means that you can't use it commercially without ATOC's permission (which they'd probably withold and expect you to pay for the data feed).

 

[yorkie]

If it's nothing to do with Thetrainline then can we assume that ATOC have objected?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Its a shame that we have to "assume" anything, but if persons concerned won't inform us . . . . . . . and lack of information usually leads to speculation.


I see the message on the splitfare website has expanded slightly. It now reads:-
SplitFare is down for maintenance.

The rail industry is ripping off rail users and cashing in. If this isn't the case then how can two tickets for the same journey be more than one? I urge people to complain to the ATOC.

(perhaps the author has become a little muddled about two being more than one!)
Sadly, there isn't enough factual information to base a complaint. As has already been asked, against whom would anyone complain? What has been said or done to splitfare? Who said or did it? On what grounds? With what authority? With what threat if any? And what actual loss or damages have been incurred or are claimed will be incurred?
Without facts and evidence, any letter would just be a winge.
But WITH those answers, there should be enough to start a complaint - one with substance!

 

[ivanhoe]

I must admit that the advice that I have received
from posters on here about split tickets was a real eye
opener which I am extremely grateful for. I did find that the
web site Split Tickets did not replicate the information so there
are problems but fair or rather fare game to the web site for
trying to help. I hope it gets better and I wish the developers all the best

 

[jopsuk]

Krus- quite. Whilst I agree with the aim of SplitFare, every impression I have is that they've failed to take into account legal reality- not legality of spit tickets themselves, but of data copyright and service terms and conditions.

Whether the data they used SHOULD be restricted in the way it is is another matter- perosnally I'd rather it WAS in the public domain and available for non-profit use by websites, but sadly that's not a view shared by many organisations in this country with data of public value.

 

[krus_aragon]

Whether the data they used SHOULD be restricted in the way it is is another matter- perosnally I'd rather it WAS in the public domain and available for non-profit use by websites, but sadly that's not a view shared by many organisations in this country with data of public value.

I agree fully with this, but if Splitfare was forwarding people on to thetrainline, and getting commission, then that wouldn't qualify for non-profit use.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Their website has been updated with a revised excuse on the crucial Search page (again) :-
"We are sorry to announce that the SplitFare search engine is shutdown. We need 3000 pounds a year for the data from the ATOC. As a free service we run splitfare at a loss and cant afford such a big cost. If you'd like to donate to the cause then please dont hesitate to contact us. The site will have a forum appear soon where users can ask other people for split fare routes and cost cutting ideas.

The rail industry is ripping off rail users and cashing in. If this isn't the case then how can two tickets for the same journey cost less than one? I urge people to complain to the ATOC."
[S'funny how that jumps from "We" to "I"]

So ATOC want to charge the access fee they advertise on their retail portal. No surprises there.
"SplitFare" invests in web design & hosting but doesn't budget for the core expense of the business. At only £9 a day. Hmmm. That is a surprise.
And I did offer to help, but only saw the cocky "We'll be back soon" postings as a reply.

I wanted to support that initiative but I can't be sympathetic to someone (I guess the "we" is just one person now) who buys webspace and design, develops software but doesn't expect to pay the going rate for the key supply. Wonder if he makes the "ripping off" accusation when he's asked to pay the publicised rate for bread, petrol, postage stamps, electricity . . .

 

[Old Timer]

The rail industry is ripping off rail users and cashing in. If this isn't the case then how can two tickets for the same journey cost less than one? I urge people to complain to the ATOC

That comment demonstrates some quite breath-taking naievity.

 

[yorkie]

Oh great, he wants people to complain about fare anomalies to ATOC. That is only going to result in fare increases where they can get away with it.

This guy came on here advertising his website, never once asked us out of courtesy if he could. He didn't give us straight answers. This was entirely predictable.

I am certainly not donating to this cause. If someone wanted to set up a not-for-profit organisation where the commission was ploughed back into the running costs, then I would be more interested in it.