Split ticketing - a blessing or a curse?

[xotGD]

Not entirely relevant, but I have been quite surprised today by a request to passengers who use split tickets to provide *all* tickets they are using for the current journey, and not only the one relevant to the segment they were on. Is this a new practice?

So even more faffing about with phones than we have at present.

I can understand this when the split doesn't involve a change of train, otherwise the guard will think that someone has missed their stop.

 

[Kite159]

So even more faffing about with phones than we have at present.

I can understand this when the split doesn't involve a change of train, otherwise the guard will think that someone has missed their stop.

Especially if the split is at a normally quiet station where the number of genuine passengers boarding & alighting can be counted on one hand at some times of the day.

Ie Overton, Dean, Grateley.

 

[AlterEgo]

So even more faffing about with phones than we have at present.

I can understand this when the split doesn't involve a change of train, otherwise the guard will think that someone has missed their stop.

There’s no faffing about. Just swipe the tickets in the wallet, it’s easier than paper tickets. When I buy splits from the forum site I can swipe through them sequentially.

 

[Bayum]

I used the RailForums one to see if I could save a few £. Was easy enough but now I have several different seats that I am booked on for throughout my five hour journey.

 

[Krokodil]

Especially if the split is at a normally quiet station where the number of genuine passengers boarding & alighting can be counted on one hand at some times of the day.

Ie Overton, Dean, Grateley.

Or a request stop like Dolgarrog (which is on the edge of a cluster). I have had some very confused Japanese tourists in the past -
"We change here?"
"Where are you going?"
"London"
"Get back on then!"

 

[AlterEgo]

I used the RailForums one to see if I could save a few £. Was easy enough but now I have several different seats that I am booked on for throughout my five hour journey.

You can change the reservations before you book!

 

[styles]

Not entirely relevant, but I have been quite surprised today by a request to passengers who use split tickets to provide *all* tickets they are using for the current journey, and not only the one relevant to the segment they were on. Is this a new practice?

It's up to the inspector really.

If you know somebody has split tickets it can be easier to see them all at once to understand their actual destination instead of re-inspecting their tickets multiple times throughout a journey. In Scotland and some other places and on last services of the day it can be helpful in order to coordinate onwards connections as well.

I'm not sure if there's an NRCoT obligation to show all the tickets but I can't see any reason not to upon request if it make's staff life's easier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used the RailForums one to see if I could save a few £. Was easy enough but now I have several different seats that I am booked on for throughout my five hour journey.

By default that can happen, but you can always (well, mostly) choose to use the seat selector to fix it (assuming there is a single seat that is free throughout, sometimes there isn't).

 

[Killingworth]

I came across another 'victim' of this yesterday. I noticed him loitering at the end of the platform at Dore & Totley and he wasn't train spotting.

He said he'd booked online with Trainline from Chesterfield to Bamford and thought he was expected to change at Dore. He'd been there almost an hour before he spoke to me.

He showed me the tickets he'd got on his phone. Unfortunately his hour to wait was up and the next train was arriving before I could check his detailed itinerary and how he'd made this purchase. A railcard holder he wasn't fully familiar with split ticketing pit falls - but he seemed to have managed by changing in Sheffield on his outward journey.



Once again I question how are cases like this impacting on ORR and TOC passenger numbers, journey lengths and remuneration statistics?

To conclude, I've just tried to book a similar journey for today on 4 different sites and got different prices, but all had me changing correctly at Sheffield.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

and how he'd made this purchase

Definitely trainline, references "splitsave" which is trainline's branding for split tickets, and the ticket code starts with TT, which is the code that says it was Trainline (the code is not just used directly by them, but also by their outsourced apps like Northern's)

 

[Haywain]

I came across another 'victim' of this yesterday. I noticed him loitering at the end of the platform at Dore & Totley and he wasn't train spotting.

He said he'd booked online with Trainline from Chesterfield to Bamford and thought he was expected to change at Dore. He'd been there almost an hour before he spoke to me.

He showed me the tickets he'd got on his phone. Unfortunately his hour to wait was up and the next train was arriving before I could check his detailed itinerary and how he'd made this purchase. A railcard holder he wasn't fully familiar with split ticketing pit falls - but he seemed to have managed by changing in Sheffield on his outward journey.



Once again I question how are cases like this impacting on ORR and TOC passenger numbers, journey lengths and remuneration statistics?

To conclude, I've just tried to book a similar journey for today on 4 different sites and got different prices, but all had me changing correctly at Sheffield.

Well, the tickets were booked through Trainline and would have been issued with an itinerary so he could have avoided the wait by reading it.

 

[Killingworth]

Well, the tickets were booked through Trainline and would have been issued with an itinerary so he could have avoided the wait by reading it.

It was a lovely day and he'd been for a gentle walk so he didn't have an unpleasant wait. I was asking to see his itinerary when the train arrived. However, it isn't being made sufficiently clear that users should be staying aboard a train at a split point. Most passengers aren't avid readers of this forum and thread.

However my central point remains. Across the country many 'extra' shorter journeys are being made to the detriment of the TOC's income stream - and to the benefit of savvy travellers. The supposed increase in rail usage is being distorted upwards in ways that are difficult to track.

The ORR knows it and may be looking at reducing some figures retrospectively by what's probably a fairly arbitrary percentage. We'll see how it comes out when the 2025/6 figures are released.

The CrossCountry routes are particularly popular with split ticket users. They're very busy as we all try to avoid their very expensive, standing room only, full fares!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was a lovely day and he'd been for a gentle walk so he didn't have an unpleasant wait. I was asking to see his itinerary when the train arrived. However, it isn't being made sufficiently clear that users should be staying aboard a train at a split point.

Trainsplit makes it very clear if you actually read the itinerary. Are people not doing that perhaps?

Not sure if Trainline does or not to be honest, I've been buying the tickets in my regular split separately now they've introduced a fee for it.

 

[Llandudno]

Not entirely relevant, but I have been quite surprised today by a request to passengers who use split tickets to provide *all* tickets they are using for the current journey, and not only the one relevant to the segment they were on. Is this a new practice?

Perhaps the guard gets double the amount of commission if h they scan 2 tickets…?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps the guard gets double the amount of commission if h they scan 2 tickets…?

2p per scan indeed, where commission is paid. Also reduces (for another 10 days or so) the risk of refund fraud by someone refunding a ticket in the middle if they bought them separately, as they won't have to pass a gateline to use it.

 

[Krokodil]

2p per scan indeed, where commission is paid. Also reduces (for another 10 days or so) the risk of refund fraud by someone refunding a ticket in the middle if they bought them separately, as they won't have to pass a gateline to use it.

Even if they didn't purchase them seperately, we were warned a while ago that some retailers were allowing refunds for individual portions that hadn't been scanned.

 

[mikeb42]

Not entirely relevant, but I have been quite surprised today by a request to passengers who use split tickets to provide *all* tickets they are using for the current journey, and not only the one relevant to the segment they were on. Is this a new practice?

Recently on GWR mainline services (mostly Bristol-London, either route) this practice seems to have gone from almost never to sporadic.

It creates a theoretical paradox for me as I do multiple manual splitting wherever possible and journeys on this particular route go through phases of being ridiculously unreliable. So, I only buy tickets when approaching the station where validity of my current ticket along my current route ends. Doubly so with the impending changes to refund rules adding even more friction to dealing with things going wrong - which happens wearyingly often.

At the point of inspection I therefore maintain the belief that my intended journey is to the destination my current ticket states. That'll usually be to a station I never travel to so by definition won't be the split point I'm subsequently spontaneously inspired to use.

I then have a sudden inspiration to travel to another station I never go to either just far enough in advance of reaching the relevant split point to buy the next ticket.

It's also wise to maintain this indecisiveness so as to not draw to the inspectors' attention that you're using a middle bit of validity of some other ticket rather than a ticket expressly between your current origin and destination as it's cheaper but still 100% valid. Doubly so when it's RPIs. I'm pretty confident that someone spotting these in the wild has previously led to information being fed up the chain to someone who then tries to find a way to hobble the opportunity to keep using those tickets in this way.

When, very occasionally, an inspector notices I'm still on a train which is inconsistent with their memory of where I'd previously decided I was going and they can be bothered (fortunately a very tiny bit of a Venn diagram) I find that channeling Sir Humphrey Appleby at his most convoluted is the way to make them lose the will.

As far as I can tell, such chronic indecisiveness leaves you still 100% within the rules as (ambiguously) drafted while remaining consistent with having more sense than money.

Given the current trajectory, maybe it's only a matter of time before the enforcement apparatus finds a way to start punishing thought crimes...

 

[gembercannelle]

Perhaps the guard gets double the amount of commission if they scan 2 tickets…?

That would explain it, because for some reason they wanted to see tickets for the segments the train passed an hour ago!