Split ticket on east coast

[postye]

Hi all, could somebody confirm that a combination of tickets is valid please?
Annual z1-4 oystercard+ bz4-Huntington CDR + Huntingdon-Peterborough CDR

Is this combination valid on a fast East Coast service? I thought it was but was told yesterday that it wasn't and I would need to use FCC due to the Oyster.

Thanks

 

[SickyNicky]

The combination is most certainly valid. The fact that East Coast are unable to read valid travelcards on Oyster is not your problem.

However, you may have difficultly in pursuading East Coast staff of this. I seem to remember that there were similar problems on Virgin trains a bit back. So using the combination comes with the risk of having to stump up for a new ticket and claim it back (which will be hard work) or maybe having to deal with any combination of unpaid fares notices / threats to prosecute / British Transport Police.

You may prefer to get something in writing from them about the validity in advance, if you can.

 

[ainsworth74]

I agree with the above. It is most certainly valid but you may well have to get used to arguing your case unless you can get something in writing from East Coast customer services. Therefore I'd suggest writting to them and explaining the situation also it may be necessary to engage in a bit of back and forth before they agree!

 

[drbdrb]

Why would you need to explain it? If they can't be bothered to give their staff the equipment to establish that a customer has a valid ticket, then what can they do?

BTP should, if they have any sense, tell them to go away.

And if the staff member was daft enough to start a prosecution, I would let it run to court, where you could have a huge amount of fun pointing out everyone's incompetence.

 

[tony_mac]

Why would you need to explain it? If they can't be bothered to give their staff the equipment to establish that a customer has a valid ticket, then what can they do?

BTP should, if they have any sense, tell them to go away.

And if the staff member was daft enough to start a prosecution, I would let it run to court, where you could have a huge amount of fun pointing out everyone's incompetence.

Your idea of a fun way to spend your time and energy are quite different to mine!

 

[CockneySparrow]

Hi all, could somebody confirm that a combination of tickets is valid please?
Annual z1-4 oystercard+ bz4-Huntington CDR + Huntingdon-Peterborough CDR

Is this combination valid on a fast East Coast service? I thought it was but was told yesterday that it wasn't and I would need to use FCC due to the Oyster.

Thanks

No, not valid, East Coast doesn't stop at Huntingdon, split ticketing means the trains have to stop

With regard to oyster, where does EC stop for oyster to come into play, I mean can you use oyster at Stevenage, if not there is nowhere on route it will come into play, that's why EC doesn't have a reader as its not needed

 

[postye]

No, not valid, East Coast doesn't stop at Huntingdon, split ticketing means the trains have to stop

With regard to oyster, where does EC stop for oyster to come into play, I mean can you use oyster at Stevenage, if not there is nowhere on route it will come into play, that's why EC doesn't have a reader as its not needed

There is no need for the train to call for a 19c split.
You don't work for East Coast ticket office by chance, cos that's almost word for word what I was told yesterday.

Anyhow, some feedback - the guard on the train to Peterborough initially said not valid - but when I mentioned the season she apologised that it was Indeed a valid combination. No ticket check on the way back

 

[hairyhandedfool]

No, not valid, East Coast doesn't stop at Huntingdon, split ticketing means the trains have to stop

With regard to oyster, where does EC stop for oyster to come into play, I mean can you use oyster at Stevenage, if not there is nowhere on route it will come into play, that's why EC doesn't have a reader as its not needed

Split tickets can be use on any appropriate service provided that they cover the entire journey and one of the following three applies.

• Both the tickets are zonal (NRCOC Condition 19a)
• The train calls where the tickets change over (NRCOC Condition 19b)
• One of the tickets is a season ticket or leisure pass and the others are not (NRCOC Condition 19c).

Also....

1.3 All Train Companies operating services into the London Fare Zones Area accept valid
Travelcards issued on Oyster. In addition, the following Train Companies accept pay as you
go on Oyster cards for travel on their services within the London National Rail Pay As You Go
Area.


c2c Rail Limited
First Capital Connect Limited
First Greater Western Limited (trading as First Great Western) (including Heathrow
Connect services between London Paddington and Hayes & Harlington)
Abellio Greater Anglia Limited (trading as Greater Anglia)
London & Birmingham Railway Limited (trading as London Midland)
London & South Eastern Railway Company (trading as Southeastern) (except High Speed
services between London St Pancras International and Stratford International)
Southern Railway Limited
Stagecoach South Western Trains Limited (trading as South West Trains)
The Chiltern Railway Company Limited
London Overground Rail Operations Ltd (trading as London Overground)

Please note that staff and agents have no authority to make individual exceptions to the
National Rail Conditions of Carriage or these Conditions of Use

Therefore this combination is valid on East Coast as far as Peterborough.

 

[ainsworth74]

No, not valid, East Coast doesn't stop at Huntingdon, split ticketing means the trains have to stop

Absolutely not. It is the most common form of split ticketing but it is not the only. For reference Condition 19 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets unless special conditions prohibit their use in this way. The Ticket Seller will, if you ask, advise you whether you can use a Zonal Ticket in combination with another ticket.
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.

You must comply with any restriction shown on the tickets relating to travel in the trains of particular Train Company or Train Companies (see Condition 10).

If you do not comply with this Condition, you will be treated as having joined the train without a ticket and Condition 2 or 4 will apply, either to the entire journey, or from the last station where the train stopped at which at least one of the tickets was valid.

For the purposes of this Condition, a “leisure travel pass” means any multi-journey ticket (excluding Season Tickets) valid for:
(i) at least 7 consecutive days; or
(ii) at least 3 days in a period of at least 7 consecutive days and includes rover tickets, travel passes, flexipass tickets and BritRail passes.

 

[drbdrb]

It is most certainly valid but you may well have to get used to arguing your case unless you can get something in writing from East Coast customer services.

So a person holds a valid ticket, but because the person employed to check the ticket doesn't understand it is, the recommendation is that they carry a letter explaining that it is?

Surely the solution is for East Coast to train their members of staff, so they do their job correctly.

Or is that too obvious?

 

[bb21]

The suggested actions are to save the passenger unnecessary hassle. In an ideal world this would not be needed, but we don't live in an ideal world.

No, the passenger doesn't need to bring anything with him apart from his tickets, but not taking these precautionary measures may mean additional hassle. While there would be no monetary loss eventually, the extra time and effort involved in resolving the matter may not be desirable to everyone.

 

[PermitToTravel]

So a person holds a valid ticket, but because the person employed to check the ticket doesn't understand it is, the recommendation is that they carry a letter explaining that it is?

Surely the solution is for East Coast to train their members of staff, so they do their job correctly.

Or is that too obvious?

I don't think it's an obvious solution at all. It would cost a lot more money than their current insufficient training does, and would have no monetary benefits whatsoever. There is no incentive not to wrongfully deny travel to paying customers.

 

[yorkie]

Hi all, could somebody confirm that a combination of tickets is valid please?
Annual z1-4 oystercard+ bz4-Huntington CDR + Huntingdon-Peterborough CDR

Is this combination valid on a fast East Coast service? I thought it was but was told yesterday that it wasn't and I would need to use FCC due to the Oyster.

Thanks

Absolutely valid to use a Travelcard Season and any number of CDRs.

I am happy to proof read a letter to East Coast.

Who gave you incorrect information? That's a training issue, which needs sorting.
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No, not valid, East Coast doesn't stop at Huntingdon, split ticketing means the trains have to stop

You may want to re-read Condition 19.

You may also be interested to know that we have a Fares Guide, which you may find useful? This topic is covered, along with many others.

With regard to oyster, where does EC stop for oyster to come into play

"What counts is the message, not the medium." - Roger Ford, Modern Railways, October 2005
It does not matter what medium the product is held on.

I mean can you use oyster at Stevenage, if not there is nowhere on route it will come into play, that's why EC doesn't have a reader as its not needed

If EC think readers are "not needed" that's their problem!

"So, the message is that if you roll up at a station with an Oyster travel card you are entitled to pay the boundary excess. If your friendly local TOC (and I must try this one the team at Welwyn Garden City) wants proof of the validity of the Travelcard it is up to the managers to provide the ticket office staff with readers" - Roger Ford, Modern Railways, October 2005

 

[Haywain]

You don't work for East Coast ticket office by chance, cos that's almost word for word what I was told yesterday.

Let's hope they don't work for EC.

Who gave you incorrect information? That's a training issue, which needs sorting.

A very good question. The individual training can only be addressed by the OP contacting East Coast.

I would just add that in the OP's case, one would have thought that a Gold Record card was being carried alongside the annual Oyster Travelcard which gives a written account of what is on the Oyster, and verifies the entitlement to Gold Card discounts on paper tickets. It is, in effect, the railcard. As we don't know what time the OP was travelling, we cannot say whether there was a discount applied, but I would still expect it would be carried. That would surely make life easier on the train.
This has no bearing on the validity of a season on Oyster, and is only relevant in this specific case. In other cases, Oyster cards can be read by the East Coast office at Kings Cross where they have the small MOVie devices. It would never be viable to provide them on trains for the very sll amount of usage on East Coast services.

 

[postye]

I would just add that in the OP's case, one would have thought that a Gold Record card was being carried alongside the annual Oyster Travelcard which gives a written account of what is on the Oyster, and verifies the entitlement to Gold Card discounts on paper tickets. It is, in effect, the railcard. As we don't know what time the OP was travelling, we cannot say whether there was a discount applied, but I would still expect it would be carried. That would surely make life easier on the train.

Yes the gold record card was carried and presented with the other tickets, and despite initially being told on-train that the split wasnt valid, when I pointed out the season ticket the guard immediately apologised and confirmed it was a valid combination. On train there was no problem.

The issue was at Kings Cross the day before when purchasing the tickets for the following day. The mis-information came about because I sought to confirm that the first train I could use with a gold card discounted tickets would be the 10:03 Leeds train.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes the gold record card was carried and presented with the other tickets, and despite initially being told on-train that the split wasnt valid, when I pointed out the season ticket the guard immediately apologised and confirmed it was a valid combination. On train there was no problem.

The issue was at Kings Cross the day before when purchasing the tickets for the following day. The mis-information came about because I sought to confirm that the first train I could use with a gold card discounted tickets would be the 10:03 Leeds train.

Yes I've had exactly this issue at Kings Cross as well.
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Although thinking about it mine was even worse as I had a SWT-issued paper ticket annual Travelcard and they still tried to tell me I could only use FCC!