Split Season Ticket

[fizzwheel]

Hi

Would this be valid ? I've searched a little found a few threads, but all are from a little while ago and are locked.

In a few weeks time I am starting a new job. Which I plan to get the following train

07:27 from Castle Cary to Reading arriving at 08:50

It calls / stops at the following stations :

Westbury
Pewsey
Newbury

I know I can split a normal ticket which saves a fair amount. But can I split a Season ticket and save a little more i.e.

1 x Season Ticket from Castle Cary to Pewsey
1 x Season Ticket from Pewsey to Reading

Journey home would be the reverse of the above, probably either on the 17:04 from Reading or the 18:01 which calls / stops at the same station(s) on the way home.

My other option is to go from Yeovil Junction to Reading, as that fair is cheaper but the journey time is longer and involves changing at Basingstoke.

thanks

 

[transportphoto]

With two season tickets, as long as all the trains you travel on stop at the station(s) you split at, yes it's valid.

TP

 

[yorkie]

Agreed. See 1.1.6 Split ticketing

You need at least one of the three clauses of Condition 19 to apply, in this case as neither ticket is Zonal and you are using more than one Season, you are looking at Condition 19(b), which means the train must call at the station where you change from one ticket to the next.

Do check whether alternative trains, if you are working earlier/later than normal, call at that station. If they do not, consider whether or not the potential inconvenience is worth the saving.

 

[fizzwheel]

Thank you both.

I've got two choices of train in the morning either the

06:39 or the 07:27 which I used for both times I travelled to Reading for my first and second interview. Both are booked to stop at Pewsey which looks to give the best cost saving for the split.

On the way home the trains I would use, the 17:04 or 18:01 call at Pewsey as does the later 19:03

It does save a fair bit of money doing it this way. If my calculations are correct. ( prices for Annual Season Ticket ) So I think its worth doing.

Castle Cary to Pewsey = £2892
Pewsey to Reading = £2860

Cost of £5752

Castle Cary to Reading = £7740

Difference = £1988

 

[yorkie]

You're right. That's a huge saving.

There's a huge premium for long distance passengers on this route!

However some people will unwittingly pay it, so there is no way GWR are going to reduce the cost of the through ticket as they won't want to lose out on the additional money that unsuspecting passengers pay.

Well done for finding it.

 

[fizzwheel]

I cant take all the credit I starting by looking at buying a ticket each day and splitting it using one of the online sites that work out the best price based on working out the splits for you which pointed me in the right direction.

That GWR route attracts a premium I think because its so much faster than the Exeter - Salisbury - Waterloo route

 

[paul1609]

According to the Southern website a Yeovil Junction to Reading Stns rte Any Permitted Annual Season Ticket £5940 is valid via Castle Cary and doesnt require a train to stop at Pewsey.
Issued at Yeovil Junction I reckon there's a good chance it will be as a Gold Card and will attract the SWT free tickets.

 

[LexyBoy]

As does GWR's journey planner.

However, ATOC's view is that you can't start your journey with a walk (as here, from Junction to Pen Mill) and must use rail services from the named station. I'd expect issues trying to use this - fortunately the split found by OP is cheaper and the trains needed call there.

Pewsey-Reading should be issued as a Gold Card if bought at a station in the GC area.

 

[paul1609]

The Southern planner shows using a GW bus between Yeovil stations, of course the SWT Yeovil Junction to Pen Mill service starts on 14 December and you can use a season ticket at any intermediate station on route. I believe via Pewsey is within 3 miles of the shortest route.

 

[LexyBoy]

That I did not know.

The Routeing Guide currently states that a route no more then (sic) miles longer [than the shortest route] may be used If a journey does not have an origin routeing point and a destination routeing point. That doesn't seem to apply here (though the rules used by the journey planners are different of course), and it's not a mapped route, so I'd not be comfortable with it.

(Has this changed yet again BTW? Sure last I looked all reference to the 3 mile rule had been redacted)

 

[fizzwheel]

Pewsey-Reading should be issued as a Gold Card if bought at a station in the GC area.

I was going to buy the Season Ticket(s) online. If I bought them from Reading Station itself I might get a better deal.

I havent read up much about the Gold Card, what would it give me if I were to get one ?

The suggestion of going from Yeovil Junction, to Yeovil Penn Mill and then onto Reading is an awful lot of faffing about and changing trains. Especially as once I got on the train from Penn Mill, I would have to change again at Castle Cary, I'd end up changing onto the train at Castle Cary that I would get on if I drove straight there which is what I'm planning to do !

Thanks for the suggestion though. I'd rather stick with my split season ticket plan as its less faff, I can get to Reading without having to change again and the 07:27 service gets me to Reading with enough time for me to walk to the Town Centre, which is where my new Office is for 9:00am which is perfect.

Edited to Add :

I live in Yeovil. Those of you not familiar with the topography. Yeovil Junction isnt actually in Yeovil, its not actually in the same county as Yeovil either. Yeovil Penn Mill and Yeovil Junction are probably 2 to 2 1/2 miles apart, the road between them doesnt have a pavement and its really not a safe road to walk on. So I'd have to use the bus or the shuttle service. Which is why I had just planned to avoid all the faffing about and drive straight to Castle Cary and get on the train there. Its much simpler..

 

[yorkie]

The suggestion of going from Yeovil Junction, to Yeovil Penn Mill and then onto Reading is an awful lot of faffing about and changing trains. Especially as once I got on the train from Penn Mill, I would have to change again at Castle Cary, I'd end up changing onto the train at Castle Cary that I would get on if I drove straight there which is what I'm planning to do !

If it's a permitted route (and an itinerary provided in conjunction with a ticket purchase is evidence of a contract) then you can start and/or finish 'short' at any station en-route.

 

[embers25]

Thank you both.

I've got two choices of train in the morning either the

06:39 or the 07:27 which I used for both times I travelled to Reading for my first and second interview. Both are booked to stop at Pewsey which looks to give the best cost saving for the split.

On the way home the trains I would use, the 17:04 or 18:01 call at Pewsey as does the later 19:03

It does save a fair bit of money doing it this way. If my calculations are correct. ( prices for Annual Season Ticket ) So I think its worth doing.

Castle Cary to Pewsey = £2892
Pewsey to Reading = £2860

Cost of £5752

Castle Cary to Reading = £7740

Difference = £1988

Splitting at Newbury is better:

Castle Cary-Newbury = 3752
Newbury-Reading = 1652

Total cost of £5404

Or another choice I think is valid (1.6.2.3 clause 19c) for trains not having to stop anywhere en route is:

Castle Cary-Theale = 3752 plus buy anytime day returns from theale to Reading each day for a fiver so even if you travel 5 days for 52 weeks its only 1300 so total 5052 max.

 

[bb21]

Castle Cary-Theale = 3752 plus buy anytime day returns from theale to Reading each day for a fiver so even if you travel 5 days for 52 weeks its only 1300 so total 5052 max.

Very good suggestion and excellent spot.

 

[fizzwheel]

Splitting at Newbury is better:

Castle Cary-Newbury = 3752
Newbury-Reading = 1652

Total cost of £5404

Thank you I missed that one on my spreadsheet not sure how though..

I will take a look at the timings if I split at Theale, but that looks I will need to actually change trains rather than just staying put...

 

[Be3G]

You wouldn't have to move, and can catch any train irrespective of calling points, because combining a season ticket with a non-season ticket means a train doesn't have to call at the station where you switch between tickets.

 

[fizzwheel]

You wouldn't have to move, and can catch any train irrespective of calling points, because combining a season ticket with a non-season ticket means a train doesn't have to call at the station where you switch between tickets.

Ah OK I didnt realise that, thank you.

 

[paul1609]

That I did not know.

The Routeing Guide currently states that a route no more then (sic) miles longer [than the shortest route] may be used If a journey does not have an origin routeing point and a destination routeing point. That doesn't seem to apply here (though the rules used by the journey planners are different of course), and it's not a mapped route, so I'd not be comfortable with it.

(Has this changed yet again BTW? Sure last I looked all reference to the 3 mile rule had been redacted)

This rule confuses me too but as I think I understand it, it would apply here since Yeovil junction is not a routing point.

 

[yorkie]

I will take a look at the timings if I split at Theale, but that looks I will need to actually change trains rather than just staying put...

No you wouldn't.

See 1.1.6 Split ticketing

In this case if you are using one Season and one or more non-Seasons you are looking at Condition 19(c).

Some Train Companies (notably Virgin Trains according to industry insiders; I don't know if GWR are bothered) have thrown a bit of a wobbler about 19(c) and want to get it abolished, but so far the DfT have resisted any such changes

 

[fizzwheel]

Thanks again, you've all been really helpful

 

[island]

According to the Southern website a Yeovil Junction to Reading Stns rte Any Permitted Annual Season Ticket £5940 is valid via Castle Cary and doesnt require a train to stop at Pewsey.
Issued at Yeovil Junction I reckon there's a good chance it will be as a Gold Card and will attract the SWT free tickets.

There's a negative easement prohibiting the use of Yeovil Junction and Yeovil Pen Mill tickets interchangeably. And the OP is likely to get all kinds of hassle from staff, even if the easement doesn't technically apply because of the shortest route rule.

 

[paul1609]

I agree, Id certainly obtain written confirmation before making the purchase. However it does raise some interesting questions:
a) if the route via Castle Cary is not valid why is the fare setter (according to BR Fares) Great Western, when it is only a minority operator on a short leg of the mapped route via Basingstoke?
It would be interesting to see how the fares are allocated by TOC on this flow.
b) Once the SWT service starts how does the negative easement apply? Presumably Yeovil Pen Mill to London tickets will be valid via Yeovil junction on direct trains?

 

[67018]

I havent read up much about the Gold Card, what would it give me if I were to get one ?

Since I didn't notice an answer to this one so I'll just point to the details here http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46573.aspx

Basically the gold card, at no extra cost, acts as a railcard offering discounted travel throughout the South East for you and up to 3 people you travel with.

 

[yorkie]

b) Once the SWT service starts how does the negative easement apply? Presumably Yeovil Pen Mill to London tickets will be valid via Yeovil junction on direct trains?

I absolutely agree direct trains are always valid.

I'm not really following this exactly as I've not looked at the maps and it's not my area but what I will say is that the Through trains rule is enshrined in the NRCoC, and therefore it cannot be affected by 'negative easements' (the legality of which I still dispute, but let's not go there in this thread )