Speeding...

[455driver]

SWT use "fixed" simulators, used them after my guards training and it was quite enjoyable but the was no movement which felt a bit odd.

 

[LE Greys]

where things a bit more laid back ion the BR days more so loco hauled? Was there any type of recorder on older trains

There were some, but not widely used. Even before BR, A4 Pacifics were fitted with a Flaman Speed Indicator and Recorder. This is essentially a form of tachograph, and was intended to keep an eye on drivers and their observation of speed limits. Some even included a 'vigilance' device, that was somewhere between an AWS cancelling button and [can't remember the acronym - bleeps in the cab every now and then]. I believe that open line was unrestricted before WWII, and I don't think many steam locos had speedometers.

There was certainly a 90 mph limit on the ECML in BR days, when most steam locos were fitted with speedometers, but Top Shed drivers in particular used to interpret it quite liberally, on one famous occasion driver Bill Hoole took Sir Nigel Gresley up to 112 mph with a railtour. It was only when the Deltics came in that people became more serious about enforcing speed limits (100 mph by the 1960s). Even in the 1980s, there was supposed to be a '140 Club' for some HST drivers, although I do not know much about that.

 

[NightatLaira]

I see, cheers for that. I kind of assumed it would be the black box. Are they checked regularly then?

With regards to the TPWS - do emergency brake applications occur frequently as a result of passing over them too quickly, or are they a rarity?
Out of interest, has anyone on the forum ever been on a service where one has occurred? I bet that was interesting...imaging the announcement the Conductor would need to make to explain that one!

Not sure if this is the same thing but I was once on an Intercity East Coast service in the mid 1990s where the driver 'forgot!' to stop at Stevenage. The senior conductor made the usual announcement regarding 'this train will shortly be arriving at Stevenage etc' but the train didn't appear to be slowing down. Once we started hitting the station limits the driver slammed on the brakes, I thought we were about to crash because of the ferocity of it all, but we didn't - we just shrieked through the station at maybe 80mph to a gathering of bemused people waiting to board and came to rest about a mile or so down the line from there.

The train sat where it stopped for about 10 mins and then this rather sheepish announcement came from the senior conductor 'I regret to inform you this train has overshot the platform at Stevenage, this service will now continue on to London Kings Cross where those wishing to have disembarked at Stevenage will be free to return there on the next alternative service at no extra charge'.

When we got to LKX I went straight up to the DVT cab end at the buffers and there were about 6 other Intercity drivers huddled across this one other driver who just had his head in his hands - "move on!" they all shouted to disgruntled folk who wanted an explanation - it didn't look good!

Kind of quite scary at the time!

 

[jon0844]

I've been on trains that failed to stop, but fortunately (I guess) they didn't do a near emergency stop when realising! In fact, in my case they seem to pretend they didn't forget!

 

[Old Timer]

Beyond a certain point there is no point in stopping to be frank. Nothing comes of it, other than avoidable delay.

What will happen is that the Guard will contact the Drtiver and they may well go to the next booked stop, which could be the best option.

For example a proper fail to call at Milton Keynes northbound is probably best dealt with by running forward to Rugby, a Watford Jct or Stevenage southbound by Euston or KX.

Probably less of an issue these days but in days gone by, platform length at intermediate stations was a factor, as well as the manning of any intermediate station.

Again stopping a train out of course by signals needs to be weighed against the ability to platform the complete train or possibly the need to stop twice, first to advise and then to detrain.

It all very variable, and each situation will tend to be slightly different in impact and how it is dealt with especially if the train keeps on running.

 

[Newportmuscles]

Even in the 1980s, there was supposed to be a '140 Club' for some HST drivers, although I do not know much about that.

Yes there used to be an 140 club.

Pre black boxes some drivers tried to do Padd to Reading in less than 20 minutes!
Best I've done, and very legally, is 24 minutes. Was doing 125 before Airport junction and the road into Reading:roll:

When a friend learnt HSTs for XC in BR days, he had 140 on the ECML, theory being to show the overspeed working, but it didn't!

 

[RPM]

I suppose it is my role to pipe up at this point and comment on speeding in ATP fitted areas, so here goes...

The theory is that ATP will warble at you if you are 3mph above the line speed and intervene with the brake if you are 6mph over line speed. In practice this varies from unit to unit and the warbling can start from +0.5mph, especially on some 168s, or otherwise tolerate +5 mph without warbling on a lot of 165s.

When braking for a restrictive speed limit the ATP compares the drivers braking curve to a theoretical one and warbles if the two do not match. Invariably the theoretical braking curve is very conservative, meaning that you can brake perfectly safely for a speed restriction (all in step 1 too) and the ATP will still warble at you.

In my opinion these inaccuracies lessen the effectiveness of ATP as hearing the warble is commonplace and usually meaningless, whereas it should really signify something serious.

 

[Newportmuscles]

Very much correct. Sometimes ATP is good, a strange yellow for example, but the number of times I get a warble but REDUCE the brake and I'm still doing the correct speed at the required location. Swindon 30 MPH is a regular!!!

 

[RPM]

That's the sadness of ATP. With a little tweaking and TLC it could be SO good.

 

[Wyvern]

Does the fact that it has warbled show up on the OTMR?

 

[RPM]

That's a good question. I suspect not but I'm not certain. In any case it doesn't really matter either way because making it warble is not in any way against the rules.