Speed upgrades and electrification

[Adrian1980uk]

Which infil lines do you think will gain a lot from electrification?

Mine goes from Felixstowe to Peterborough, freight is the obvious gain but also improve use of the bi modes plus would have possibly made the 745s stansted express more operationally viable by giving a method to get back to depot

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2021 ==

Which infil lines do you think will gain a lot from electrification?

Mine goes from Felixstowe to Peterborough, freight is the obvious gain but also improve use of the bi modes plus would have possibly made the 745s stansted express more operationally viable by giving a method to get back to depot

Also if the breckland line was upgraded it brings the option of Norwich to Cambridge and on to kings cross ( lots of challenges around that though)

 

[59CosG95]

Which infil lines do you think will gain a lot from electrification?

Mine goes from Felixstowe to Peterborough, freight is the obvious gain but also improve use of the bi modes plus would have possibly made the 745s stansted express more operationally viable by giving a method to get back to depot

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2021 ==


Also if the breckland line was upgraded it brings the option of Norwich to Cambridge and on to kings cross ( lots of challenges around that though)

A more obvious one is the tiny gap between the GWML at Acton Yard and the North London Line at the top of Acton (Poplar) Bank; this would end the GWML's status as electrically isolated from the rest of the electrified network (excluding the Lizzie Line). Continuing up the Dudding Hill Line to Cricklewood/Hendon would reap similar rewards for the MML.

 

[Ianno87]

Which infil lines do you think will gain a lot from electrification?

Mine goes from Felixstowe to Peterborough, freight is the obvious gain but also improve use of the bi modes plus would have possibly made the 745s stansted express more operationally viable by giving a method to get back to depot

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2021 ==

Trouble is, just Felixstowe to Peterborough doesn't make sense unless you also wire the joint line via Spalding and/or onwards to Nuneaton. And suddenly it's a pretty big "infilll".

 

[Energy]

The Marston Vale would be useful, not because of the need for fast acceleration or any of those benefits but it would make it a lot easier operationally as the surrounding lines are all electrified (needing a small fleet of diesel trains) and the 20m requirement.

 

[Bald Rick]

A more obvious one is the tiny gap between the GWML at Acton Yard and the North London Line at the top of Acton (Poplar) Bank; this would end the GWML's status as electrically isolated from the rest of the electrified network (excluding the Lizzie Line). Continuing up the Dudding Hill Line to Cricklewood/Hendon would reap similar rewards for the MML.

Whils5 it seems obvious, Not many trains would swap to electric traction though.

 

[zwk500]

The obvious one to me is Southcote Junction-Basingstoke. 2tph passenger service could convert from Day 1, with benefits to all trains of getting the all-stations acceleration up (especially around Reading). Then the network effects of other projects such as Didcot-Oxford and beyond, or Kew/Acton/Wembley area, become much more viable. The difficulty will, of course, be working out how to manage the transition between the 2 systems at Basingstoke. Presumably it'll be OLE into the Bay platform, with a short stretch of 3rd rail onto the branch to allow freights to avoid the need to mess about with the main station throat.

The Thames Valley branches also should really have been sorted out by now, although given the issues faced so far maybe Battery units are the ultimate answer.

 

[swt_passenger]

The obvious one to me is Southcote Junction-Basingstoke. 2tph passenger service could convert from Day 1, with benefits to all trains of getting the all-stations acceleration up (especially around Reading). Then the network effects of other projects such as Didcot-Oxford and beyond, or Kew/Acton/Wembley area, become much more viable. The difficulty will, of course, be working out how to manage the transition between the 2 systems at Basingstoke. Presumably it'll be OLE into the Bay platform, with a short stretch of 3rd rail onto the branch to allow freights to avoid the need to mess about with the main station throat.

The Thames Valley branches also should really have been sorted out by now, although given the issues faced so far maybe Battery units are the ultimate answer.

Don’t forget there’s no power capacity on the main line to allow DC freight trains either. Third rail towards Reading wouldn’t be required unless major improvements to DC capacity elsewhere were in the scheme.

 

[zwk500]

Don’t forget there’s no power capacity on the main line to allow DC freight trains either. Third rail towards Reading wouldn’t be required unless major improvements to DC capacity elsewhere were in the scheme.

Good point. In fact, maintaining strict separation would be quite beneficial to the project in terms of cost and performance.

 

[swt_passenger]

Good point. In fact, maintaining strict separation would be quite beneficial to the project in terms of cost and performance.

Yes, to take baby steps to get the local passenger service improved it can be treated as a separate branch of the GW.

Crossing Basingstoke with passenger or freight services must multiply the costs but can wait for a while…

 

[ac6000cw]

Trouble is, just Felixstowe to Peterborough doesn't make sense unless you also wire the joint line via Spalding and/or onwards to Nuneaton. And suddenly it's a pretty big "infilll".

Agreed.

Even on its own, Felixstowe - Ipswich plus Haughley Junction - Peterborough is over 70 miles of mostly double-track railway to be electrified, needing sufficient traction power supply to support frequent freight trains, and doubtless re-signalling of Ely - Peterborough as well. That sounds like a pretty major project to me, far more than just an 'infill'.

The Felixstowe branch on its own makes sense as 'infill', but to me, anything beyond that in East Anglia has to be way down the pecking order behind the MML and Transpennine routes (for example). Even more so as the non-electrified routes are served by cl.755 bi-modes, which I suspect could fairly easily be converted to diesel-battery-OHLE hybrids in the future to reduce their off-wire CO2 emissions.

 

[cle]

Chiltern and Snow Hill lines.

Diesel services running on hilly, all stations routes. High frequency and commuter at both ends (plus regional journeys to each other, and Warks/Oxford/Bicester/HW centres) - makes a lot of sense for the same reasons the Valleys did.

Chiltern especially where higher line speeds among the hills could enable much nippier EMU journeys, and in addition to journey times, might even allow more trains to run. Stock utilization far better. But first, longer trains. Seems a no-brainer to do it before a mass stock replacement.

 

[zwk500]

Chiltern and Snow Hill lines.

Not really 'infill' though are they?

I agree the Snow Hill lines in particular should be a priority.

 

[cle]

Nor is Felixstowe to Peterborough really. A bit at Ipswich and then Ely, and P'boro itself. Cambridge if we include that bit but not if literally just the Soham route. I followed the OP's lead which is the rules!

Admittedly zero on the routes I mentioned.

 

[ac6000cw]

The Windermere branch is an obvious 'infill' candidate - and if objectors still don't want the electrification 'clutter' in their backyards then close it and run battery powered buses instead....

 

[Ken H]

The Windermere branch is an obvious 'infill' candidate - and if objectors still don't want the electrification 'clutter' in their backyards then close it and run battery powered buses instead....

A battery/25Kv bimode is the obvious fix for that branch.
If there is not enough time on 25Kv waiting at Oxenholme to keep the batteries topped up, then wire Oxenholme - Kendal.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Neville Hill to Colton jct, then Northern would be able to operate pure electrics all the way to York!

 

[Bevan Price]

Eventually, everything apart from quieter secondary / branch lines, starting with:
Manchester to Leeds (both routes)
Kettering to Leeds & Doncaster.
GWR extended all the way to Swansea & Plymouth.
Derby & Birmingham to Bristol.

 

[zwk500]

Eventually, everything apart from quieter secondary / branch lines, starting with:
Manchester to Leeds (both routes)
Kettering to Leeds & Doncaster.
GWR extended all the way to Swansea & Plymouth.
Derby & Birmingham to Bristol.

The OP does ask for infill lines. There's plenty of other threads about which order to electrify the entire country.

Manchester to Leeds is in the works, although in order to be truly useful it needs to include Leeds-Church Fenton.

 

[Elecman]

The Windermere branch is an obvious 'infill' candidate - and if objectors still don't want the electrification 'clutter' in their backyards then close it and run battery powered buses instead....

Who,were the objectors afaik no one actually objected despite the Grayling Spin to that effect

 

[JKF]

Parkway - BTM. Could probably get away with only going as far as Filton Abbey Wood for the down lines as trains could roll the rest of the way down the hill.

 

[Chiltern006]

Marshlink and Uckfield lines are obvious. gtr operate all electric trains except the 20 171s, and would elimate diesel operation in the south east region south of London (if you get what I mean)

also Greenford line is obvious, could even be taken on by TfL with some 4 car 345s?!?!?!

 

[Shred Metal]

Doncaster - Selby - Hull (as an east coast equivalent of the Blackpool upgrade)

 

[cle]

Marshlink and Uckfield lines are obvious. gtr operate all electric trains except the 20 171s, and would elimate diesel operation in the south east region south of London (if you get what I mean)

also Greenford line is obvious, could even be taken on by TfL with some 4 car 345s?!?!?!

The battery plan being developed seems a much better fit for this. 4 cars would be empty. But it's a good guinea pig and might see some increases as a local Crossrail feeder, which all of the GW branches need to embrace really.

 

[martin2345uk]

Dunno if it meets the criteria exactly but this 2.6 mile stretch would be near the top of my list!




[Image is Google Earth screenshot showing the short line connecting London Gateway Port to the Tilbury Line]

 

[sleepy_hollow]

Doncaster - Selby - Hull (as an east coast equivalent of the Blackpool upgrade)

Surely you mean Doncaster-Goole-Hull.

 

[cle]

Surely you mean Doncaster-Goole-Hull.

It's not really a mainline anymore. All the London service route via Selby, in addition to TPE which would also benefit here.

 

[DanNCL]

North Downs, Uckfield and Marshlink electrification would, with the exception of XC + West of England services and freight, completely eliminate diesel running on what is otherwise an entirely third rail electrified Southern region.

Another obvious contender for infil electrification would be Glasgow Queen Street (high level) to Anniesland, as that is now a diesel island on an otherwise entirely electrified local network out of Queen Street.

For speed upgrades, especially with the cancellation of the Eastern leg of HS2, the straighter sections of the East Coast Main Line should be upgraded to 140mph. These are Werrington - Stoke Tunnel, Grantham - around 5 miles south of Retford, Doncaster - Colton Junction and Skelton Junction - around 5 miles south of Darlington. Some of these sections are straight enough that running above 140mph should in theory be achieveable with further track upgrades and suitable trains.

 

[AndrewE]

The Windermere branch is an obvious 'infill' candidate - and if objectors still don't want the electrification 'clutter' in their backyards then close it and run battery powered buses instead....

Nobody has ever produced any evidence of any objections at all.
It's like Standedge Tunnel: an urban myth which provides a fig-leaf for the government's failure to invest in transport infrastructure in the provinces.
Windermere would be a quick cheap easy win, dead easy but not in the south-east, unfortunately.

 

[The Planner]

As often noted, 140 vs 125 is 3 seconds a mile, you need a lot of it to make a dent. Its not just track you need to upgrade either.

 

[59CosG95]

As often noted, 140 vs 125 is 3 seconds a mile, you need a lot of it to make a dent. Its not just track you need to upgrade either.

All the OLE (not just the headspans) would need upgrading to Series 1, all the signalling would need to be ETCS, and the tracks would have to be remodelled so that the fasts are segregated as much as possible.