Speed restrictions as the heatwave arrives

[gavin]

Todays changes

First Great Western

Exceptionally hot weather conditions yesterday Wednesday 1 July caused major disruption to some First Great Western services. Lower temperatures are predicted for today, Thursday 2 July, however the following services are still being affected:

London Paddington to Bourne End / Marlow: 16:42, 17:42 and 18:42 services. Passengers that travel on these direct services will need to change at Maidenhead for connecting service to Bourne End / Marlow, which may result in an increase of journey times by up to 5 minutes.

No other alterations to service are currently in place; however, before travel we advise that you check your journey via the link below.

Northern Rail

Exceptionally hot weather conditions yesterday meant that speed restrictions were imposed across the Northern Rail network, causing disruption to various services. Though lower temperatures are forecast for today the following routes will still be affected:

Cleethorpes - Barton-on-Humber

Trains will run between Cleethorpes and New Holland only.

Buses are running between New Holland and Barton-on-Humber. The buses from Barton-on-Humber will run through to Cleethorpes.

London Midland, Arriva Trains Wales & East Midlands Trains are planning on running as normal today but passengers are advised to check before they travel

 

[ADRboy]

Or, a cheaper and easier solution: add sprinklers that spray cool water onto the rails. It'll be just like driving in the rain. No restressing rails. No extra ballast - sorted cheaper.

This is done in some locations already.

 

[Deepgreen]

Horrendous on the North Downs line yesterday evening - the 1743 and 1843 from Redhill were both cancelled, leaving a four hour gap at Betchworth and other intermediate stations! All the trains I travelled on (FGW and Southern) had air-con failures - why can't we design air-con that actually works when it's most needed!?

 

[SPADTrap]

Horrendous on the North Downs line yesterday evening - the 1743 and 1843 from Redhill were both cancelled, leaving a four hour gap at Betchworth and other intermediate stations! All the trains I travelled on (FGW and Southern) had air-con failures - why can't we design air-con that actually works when it's most needed!?

I don't think design comes into it. Maintain it perhaps.

 

[Taunton]

How on earth do we think railways in places that have more extreme weather, hotter in summer, colder in winter (Russia, Central Canada, etc) manage with CWR that they run on 365 days a year?

I understand that a number of the top team at Network Rail, currently fearful for their jobs, are sending off their CVs to a major rail project just getting going across the Gulf/United Arab Emirates. Where it comes to the bit about "experience in hot climates" I presume they have honestly written "absolutely impossible to run a railway in your temperatures".

 

[DarloRich]

How on earth do we think railways in places that have more extreme weather, hotter in summer, colder in winter (Russia, Central Canada, etc) manage with CWR that they run on 365 days a year?

I understand that a number of the top team at Network Rail, currently fearful for their jobs, are sending off their CVs to a major rail project just getting going across the Gulf/United Arab Emirates. Where it comes to the bit about "experience in hot climates" I presume they have honestly written "absolutely impossible to run a railway in your temperatures".

well if you read any of the posts above.................

 

[Dave1987]

How on earth do we think railways in places that have more extreme weather, hotter in summer, colder in winter (Russia, Central Canada, etc) manage with CWR that they run on 365 days a year?

I understand that a number of the top team at Network Rail, currently fearful for their jobs, are sending off their CVs to a major rail project just getting going across the Gulf/United Arab Emirates. Where it comes to the bit about "experience in hot climates" I presume they have honestly written "absolutely impossible to run a railway in your temperatures".

As has already been said in Britain the railways have to work in a huge operating window. How often does it hit over 30 degrees in the UK? It was the hottest day on record for July yesterday, merely 2 degrees lower that the highest recorded in history in this country. Network Rail have said the costs of installing slab track that can cope with extremely high temperatures is four times more expensive than what is used in the UK. For the handful of days every other year that it reaches over 30 degrees is really worth spending serious amounts of money or just accept the speed restrictions for a day or so? It's not worth the huge expense for the amount of days it would be needed for.

 

[Deepgreen]

As has already been said in Britain the railways have to work in a huge operating window. How often does it hit over 30 degrees in the UK? It was the hottest day on record for July yesterday, merely 2 degrees lower that the highest recorded in history in this country. Network Rail have said the costs of installing slab track that can cope with extremely high temperatures is four times more expensive than what is used in the UK. For the handful of days every other year that it reaches over 30 degrees is really worth spending serious amounts of money or just accept the speed restrictions for a day or so? It's not worth the huge expense for the amount of days it would be needed for.

Railways in, for example Canada, USA, Russia and China have to operate in a temperature range of at least -40C to +40C (shade air temperature), with rail temperatures from -50C to +60C (110C range) at least. They have almost no slab track, although their rail weight, sleeper spacing, ballast depth and formation are usually different to that in the UK. Slab track is not the only solution to extreme ranges of temperature.

Temperatures exceed 30C on several days every summer in southern Britain. Our air temperature range is typically roughly -15C to +35C equating to rail temperatures of around -20C to +55C (75C range).

 

[meridian2]

As has already been said in Britain the railways have to work in a huge operating window. How often does it hit over 30 degrees in the UK? It was the hottest day on record for July yesterday, merely 2 degrees lower that the highest recorded in history in this country. Network Rail have said the costs of installing slab track that can cope with extremely high temperatures is four times more expensive than what is used in the UK. For the handful of days every other year that it reaches over 30 degrees is really worth spending serious amounts of money or just accept the speed restrictions for a day or so? It's not worth the huge expense for the amount of days it would be needed for.

Then why do we have snowploughs if they're only used for a handful of days in the harshest of places? The point is contingency, and cost is an extremely moot point I 'm afraid.

 

[edwin_m]

Then why do we have snowploughs if they're only used for a handful of days in the harshest of places? The point is contingency, and cost is an extremely moot point I 'm afraid.

A few snowploughs are a lot cheaper than renewing most of the rail network with some sort of more robust track, and we probably get snow more often than we get this sort of heat. Of course when we do, people complain we aren't prepared for it...

As with so many things a risk can be reduced by spending more money, but it's a question of which risks are worth spending how much money on.

 

[infobleep]

Horrendous on the North Downs line yesterday evening - the 1743 and 1843 from Redhill were both cancelled, leaving a four hour gap at Betchworth and other intermediate stations! All the trains I travelled on (FGW and Southern) had air-con failures - why can't we design air-con that actually works when it's most needed!?

I thought FGW made additional stops on the fast service when stops were cancelled. I've certainly be on services where thus has happened. This is not happen last might and if not anyone know why?

 

[DarloRich]

Railways in, for example Canada, USA, Russia and China have to operate in a temperature range of at least -40C to +40C (shade air temperature), with rail temperatures from -50C to +60C (110C range) at least. They have almost no slab track, although their rail weight, sleeper spacing, ballast depth and formation are usually different to that in the UK. Slab track is not the only solution to extreme ranges of temperature.

Temperatures exceed 30C on several days every summer in southern Britain. Our air temperature range is typically roughly -15C to +35C equating to rail temperatures of around -20C to +55C (75C range).

What seems to be often missed is that the lines in USA/Canada/ Russia often run in a climate that will accept a greater risk of broken rails or derailments. We don't accept this. They will stress their rails to a different standard and accept the issues that come in the cold weather. It isn't so much of a problem with a slower speed freight railway.

We also work our rail network much more intensively, at a higher speed and for longer than most other countries. This means we have less opportunity to undertake, in one hit, the kind of preventative maintenance required to reduce this kind of issue.

Look at the earlier posts about ballast condition, tamping, shoulders etc. What would be your response to more delays in the winter because the track was stressed to a level to allow for less issues in the heat?

 

[Bald Rick]

Railways in, for example Canada, USA, Russia and China have to operate in a temperature range of at least -40C to +40C (shade air temperature), with rail temperatures from -50C to +60C (110C range) at least. They have almost no slab track, although their rail weight, sleeper spacing, ballast depth and formation are usually different to that in the UK. Slab track is not the only solution to extreme ranges of temperature.

Temperatures exceed 30C on several days every summer in southern Britain. Our air temperature range is typically roughly -15C to +35C equating to rail temperatures of around -20C to +55C (75C range).

All big countries, and there aren't many places in them that get both ends of the extremes. And in the few places where they do, guess what, they put speed restrictions on and/or accept a higher rate of buckles and broken rails.

A quick look on google will show you several accident reports from Canadian railways with major derailments caused by buckles in hot weather.

Another issue is that the linespeed on these railways is rarely more than 60mph, so speed restrictions are less likely cause disrupts. There are also far, far fewer trains to be affected by them.

I'm tempted to write an idiots guide about it, but have decided to wait until the next heat wave.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Low 20s next week apparently.

 

[Deepgreen]

All big countries, and there aren't many places in them that get both ends of the extremes. And in the few places where they do, guess what, they put speed restrictions on and/or accept a higher rate of buckles and broken rails.

A quick look on google will show you several accident reports from Canadian railways with major derailments caused by buckles in hot weather.

Another issue is that the linespeed on these railways is rarely more than 60mph, so speed restrictions are less likely cause disrupts. There are also far, far fewer trains to be affected by them.

I'm tempted to write an idiots guide about it, but have decided to wait until the next heat wave.

It's a fair point that our network is so much more intensively used at higher speeds.

 

[6Gman]

But they were still caught out, just look at the number of imposed speed restrictions.

'NR can't win' is a bit disingenuous to say the least.

Why did you quote my question, then make an entirely unrelated observation?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Then why do we have snowploughs if they're only used for a handful of days in the harshest of places? The point is contingency, and cost is an extremely moot point I 'm afraid.

Because if we didn't have snowploughs people would come on fora like this and complain if trains were delayed in snowy weather!

"Why haven't you got snowploughs?"

"Because we spent the budget on restressing track last May for hot summer weather ... which never came ... "

 

[LAX54]

How on earth do we think railways in places that have more extreme weather, hotter in summer, colder in winter (Russia, Central Canada, etc) manage with CWR that they run on 365 days a year?

I understand that a number of the top team at Network Rail, currently fearful for their jobs, are sending off their CVs to a major rail project just getting going across the Gulf/United Arab Emirates. Where it comes to the bit about "experience in hot climates" I presume they have honestly written "absolutely impossible to run a railway in your temperatures".

IF this is, as you are suggesting normal weather, why are newpapers/tv etc spouting how it's the hottest day for 10 years, some say hottest day on record, and also all the press saying how the UK is hotter than the likes of Brazil, Nevada, Hawaii etc, the UK does not have REGULAR 90F days, we feel lucky when it gets to 75F most summers ! The railway is stressed for normal summers/winters, when it gets exceptional, they have to use a contingency plan, just like any other country. I have no doubt we could restress all track for 90+ degrees, but dont complain when there are brken rails when it gets to just below freezing point.

 

[LAX54]

What seems to be often missed is that the lines in USA/Canada/ Russia often run in a climate that will accept a greater risk of broken rails or derailments. We don't accept this. They will stress their rails to a different standard and accept the issues that come in the cold weather. It isn't so much of a problem with a slower speed freight railway.

We also work our rail network much more intensively, at a higher speed and for longer than most other countries. This means we have less opportunity to undertake, in one hit, the kind of preventative maintenance required to reduce this kind of issue.

Look at the earlier posts about ballast condition, tamping, shoulders etc. What would be your response to more delays in the winter because the track was stressed to a level to allow for less issues in the heat?

Went on a trip to the USA a couple of years ago, and we did hunt out quite few railways, well one of the reasons we went, have to say I was amazed at the amount of derailed wagons we saw lying by the side of the tracks, and not just the odd wagon either, plus of course the speeds there are, shall we say slightly different... eg The fast train from L.A. to San Diego which is about 115/120 miles, takes 3 hours.

 

[30907]

Just picked up on www.drehscheibe-online.de that the Arlberg main line in Austria, and a main route in the Swiss Midlands have both been closed due to buckled rails.

Nothing reported in Germany yet, apart from defective aircon.

 

[Bald Rick]

Just picked up on www.drehscheibe-online.de that the Arlberg main line in Austria, and a main route in the Swiss Midlands have both been closed due to buckled rails.

Nothing reported in Germany yet, apart from defective aircon.

But that's impossible. Things like that only happen in the UK

 

[DasLunatic]

But that's impossible. Things like that only happen in the UK

I'd have thought rockfalls and avalanches would be Austria and Switzerland's biggest problem...

 

[infobleep]

My brother once messaged me to say he was on a train in Austria stuck in a snow drift. He did get through but was 1.5 hours late.

People have died in Austria on the roads when it was too dangerous to drive in winter and that includes cars with snow chains!

Other countries have extremes too that go beyond ours.

 

[30907]

I'd have thought rockfalls and avalanches would be Austria and Switzerland's biggest problem...

They are. But the bottom of an Alpine valley can get seriously hot....