Speed limits

[PinzaC55]

"If I was doing it, then I would not let anyone help me. Others might, but I would hope they would check all sets of points and walk through te route, as I would."

And therein lies the problem. In my capacity as a volunteer on a preserved railway which wanted to have point motors I was asked by one of the managers "what do you know about point motors?". I replied "installation has to be designed and installed by qualified staff. You'll need mains power supply, backup power supply/generator and a manager qualified to hand crank them.All of course will have to be approved by HMRI".
The manager went away scratching his head.
On my next visit they had obtained a number of point motors of Polish origin from another RPS and one of these had been fitted to the track and painted.
Another volunteer asked me "could you track down a manual for these and help us install them?". I replied that, being a time served fitter, I could probably install them but I would have absolutely nothing to do with it.
That was 2004 and I believe the motors are still there, unused.
Railway signalling is governed by ABSOLUTE rules. Although what AlexS has said about the signalman having a key to the interlocking room of the box may be and probably is true, in the event of an accident the H&SE will look for somebody to blame, and that's why I refused to have anything to do with the point motors - to cover my own back.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The installation we have is fully compliant with current NR standards. The points machines are all the same type as can be found on the mainline. The S&T manager is a senior ST manager working for Network Rail. I have been on a training course, learnt how they work, how to work them manually, done it as part of a practical being supervised by the person training me, and done a theory assessment, which I passed fully. The only reason why I can't is that I'm not 18 yet.
I haven't seen the SMS or the Safety Case, but it will all be covered in there.

 

[AlexS]

"I would agree with AlexS. Because of the nature of HRs many people have many competencies. Obviously if I was booked guard I'm not going to jump off and go and do point winding, but if I was platform staff with 3 or 4 people, then someone might"

So let's say there are several sets of points to be wound, widely spaced. Because of this you decide Alf will do the points at one end and Terry will do the points at the other. There's a misunderstanding and through wrongly set points a train is derailed and someone is seriously injured. The H&SE in all their might descend on the scene. How do you think they would view this, and if they found someone at fault what would be the implications for the railway concerned? And for the person who passed Alf and Terry as competent to do the job?

Certainly on the GCR this is sorted out by having only one crank handle per signalbox so you can only have 1 points operator (who must be a 'competent person') at a time, who will identify themselves to the signalman before removing the crank handle from the cupboard at Loughborough (as the points are about 1/4 mile from the box) or at Quorn where the handle is held in the box. The different installations (currently Quorn and Woodhouse and Loughborough, soon to include Swithland sidings) with point motors have different crank handle fittings so you can only use them in their own motors and not take them to other sites.

Also no Polish crap is installed, the motors standard on the GCR are SGE HB types with known provenance and maintenance techniques. The GCR S&T managers are Network Rail and BR senior managers with many years operational experience (not just driving a desk) in their trade, and the majority of the S&T Technicians are NR S&T Technicians, those that aren't have been well trained by them.

Our signalling engineers are IRSE accredited as well, and an independent competent person tests and signs off the designs. A HMRI inspector then declares them fit, or otherwise.

As a result the system is well considered and the policies and procedures for working the points as required are there - however the size of the operation (just shy of 8 miles of railway) does mean that there are some staffing limitations that are resolved as best they can. Some drivers are passed as guards, some guards are passed as signalman, some guards/signalman/drivers are pilotmen, and various grades are points operators (if only because if the Operations Manager is on holiday on the other side of the country, you'd be screwed otherwise).

The noise from the block instrument alarm is sufficiently loud that you can't really work with it sounding, and as it happens, the S&T depot is directly adjacent to Swithland box so the likelihood is that someone will hear it going off.

 

[Tomnick]

For starters, and as Alex says, there's (deliberately) only one crank handle at each location, and they can't be transferred between locations - they (deliberately, again) won't fit at any other location. in any case, the RSSB Rule Book (to which we currently work) makes provision for more than one Points Operator to work under the instruction of an Agent, himself working to the Signalman's instructions, although in our case any additional bodies couldn't be used to wind points (for the reason above).

If there was a misunderstanding, I'm sure RAIB and in turn ORR would descend in numbers. If everything had been done in accordance with the Rule Book, which itself could be shown to be watertight, and proper records existed to document the training and assessment of those involved - I think they'd be satisfied that all was in order. No doubt there'd still be recommendations for the Railway to act upon, but nothing like the rather dramatic picture (which certainly doesn't depict anything like GCR operations) painted above.

Above all that, the Rule Book clearly makes provision for the increased risk of a derailment during such working, by not allowing movements on adjacent lines whilst the first movement over a route set by hand is taking place.

Don't assume that all heritage railway operations are the same - the vast majority are professionally run and wouldn't let anyone be responsible for installation of S&T equipment unless their competence could be proved. I don't know how you'd get an installation past 'the authorities' any other way, especially in this age of requirung an independent competent person to test the whole lot.