Speed limit sign question.

[Scott]

What does the blue signal stand for when there's two speed limit signs on top of eachover, and one is white with a red circle around the edge and red letters and the other is white letters with a blue background?

 

[westcoaster]

got a picture cant think what you are on about.

 

[rail-britain]

White circle, red border, black numbers
This is the standard format for a maximum line speed
This is supplemented by differential speed limits, with the two speeds above below and separated by a horizontal black line

Blue square
This is the standard format for a temporary speed restriction in white numerals
Additional letters are a white T to indicate the restriction Terminates
Also a white / to indicate SPATE, or that the restriction does NOT apply

Blue square with white X
This board indicates that AWS applies after previously not applying
These boards are now being replaced by Yellow sqaure with a black X

Blue rectangle with white numbers
This is an Alias plate for use at signals to allow CSR
These boards are now being replaced by a white rectangtle with a black diamond pattern

 

[O L Leigh]

White circle, red border, black numbers
This is the standard format for a maximum line speed
This is supplemented by differential speed limits, with the two speeds above below and separated by a horizontal black line

Correct.

Blue square
This is the standard format for a temporary speed restriction in white numerals
Additional letters are a white T to indicate the restriction Terminates
Also a white / to indicate SPATE, or that the restriction does NOT apply

Incorrect.

The boards for a temporary speed restriction (TSR) are black on yellow and are the same as those used for emergency speed restrictions (ESR). The only difference between the two types of installation is that the ESR will have an emergency indicator (known as a "Dalek") with it's own AWS magnet 200 yards before the ESR warning board where the TSR will not have this. The reason is that location, severity and duration of all TSR's are published in the weekly notices and are known about in advance whereas an ESR might spring up as if by magic part way through a driver's turn of duty.

Blue square with white X
This board indicates that AWS applies after previously not applying
These boards are now being replaced by Yellow sqaure with a black X

Correct.

Blue rectangle with white numbers
This is an Alias plate for use at signals to allow CSR
These boards are now being replaced by a white rectangtle with a black diamond pattern

Partly correct.

The white numerals on a blue board is the set-up code for that specific signal. These are quite small boards, though. Certainly smaller than a signal ID plate.

The black boards with the white diamond and black numerals are the markers for the CSR area boundaries and give the new area code. In order to get a complete CSR set-up, you need to know both the area code and signal number.

O L Leigh

 

[Scott]

It doesn't seem to be any of them. (sorry :-P)

This is something I've just created on paint. It looks a lot like this:



If it helps, it's in the middle of two tracks. My theory would be that one sign is for the left track, and the other is for the right one, however the tracks go in opposite directions so one driver wouldn't be able to see the sign as it would be facing the wrong way, so this seems rather pointless. Also I learnt somewhere that if there is two tracks going the same way and there is two speed limit signs for each track in the middle of them, the top one has an arrow pointing towards the track that that speed sign is for. Obviously the bottom sign is for the other track.

 

[1D53]

Where is this sign? Its nothing I've ever seen on the mainline.

 

[Darandio]

Where is this sign? Its nothing I've ever seen on the mainline.

It's got me as well that one, will be interesting to find out though.

 

[Scott]

It's just past Heworth, which is one station away from Newcastle on the line towards sunderland/middlesbrough/hartlepool. :-P

 

[Ascot]

It's all 25/70 on the line towards Sunderland just from Heworth. Sure it was on the mainline?

 

[Darandio]

It's just past Heworth, which is one station away from Newcastle on the line towards sunderland/middlesbrough/hartlepool. :-P

Is it definetely on the Network Rail part? If it is, could it be something to do with an extemely rare occurance of a Metro drag? Not that I have ever known this happen, ever!

 

[Scott]

I know that it's different speed limits, I just didn't know the proper ones so I put 40 instead. :-P But one line is the Tyne & Wear metro line towards pelaw, and the other is the mainline line when it's just about to enter Heworth. However the blue sign couldn't be the standard metro sign because they use the same signs as the mainline does.

 

[Ascot]

Well the metro run in K/ph so doubt it's to do with them unless the speed says 80 (we are talking about the line TOWARDS Newcastle?)

 

[Scott]

Well the metro run in K/ph so doubt it's to do with them unless the speed says 80 (we are talking about the line TOWARDS Newcastle?)

_______
|.........| <_________________________
|....H...|......o >
_______ ----------------------------->

Key
_________

... = spaces. Forum doesn't let you type more than one space - it just makes it one space.
Box with H inside = Heworth station
_____ = Mainline track
------ = Metro track
o = signal
Arrows (<>) = the way the tracks and signal are facing.

So for a mainline train entering Heworth station on the line going to newcastle, the signal would be facing the wrong way.

Also, I did my best with the diagram lol. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't understand it. :-P

 

[Ascot]

Try drawing something in paint. Might help people understand If you knew the exact speeds then it would be a bit more clearer of what is what.

 

[Scott]

Polite way of saying "your diagram is rubbish" lol -.- Yeah I will. 2 secs

 

[ungreat]

It's a Tyne and Wear Metro maximum speed limit sign....see image

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Tyne_and_Wear_Metro_-_70kmh_speed_limit_sign.jpg

They were changed as the old semi diamond shaped sign looked similar to the National Rail standard ones used for the main line..Therefore wherever NR and Tyne & Wear tracks run close by you will see them

 

[Ascot]

It's a Tyne and Wear Metro maximum speed limit sign....see image

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Tyne_and_Wear_Metro_-_70kmh_speed_limit_sign.jpg

They were changed as the old semi diamond shaped sign looked similar to the National Rail standard ones used for the main line..Therefore wherever NR and Tyne & Wear tracks run close by you will see them

Not sure about that. Reading that page it says the new Diamond ones we're replacing the old Network Rail ones that we're the same as the mph ones. Then the bloke doesn't know what the blue one means but might be minimum speed.

 

[Scott]

It's a Tyne and Wear Metro maximum speed limit sign....see image

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Tyne_and_Wear_Metro_-_70kmh_speed_limit_sign.jpg

They were changed as the old semi diamond shaped sign looked similar to the National Rail standard ones used for the main line..Therefore wherever NR and Tyne & Wear tracks run close by you will see them

It isn't, it's the red outlined signs that were changed. It says this about the blue one, "I'm not certain what the white on blue circular sign beneath is."

 

[ungreat]

I re-read that..whoops..more than likely it is a minimum speed sign then

 

[P156KWJ]

it's certainly the sign you get on roads for minimum speed limits

 

[Craig]

The red diamond/circular signs are the normal speed limit in kph. IIRC the blue ones are emergency speed limits. Usually where the blue signs are there is also a blue light on a post nearby. I've never seem them in use, but I guess when the lights are on then the speed limits on the blue signs come into effect.

 

[rail-britain]

Incorrect.
The boards for a temporary speed restriction (TSR) are black on yellow and are the same as those used for emergency speed restrictions (ESR). The only difference between the two types of installation is that the ESR will have an emergency indicator (known as a "Dalek") with it's own AWS magnet 200 yards before the ESR warning board where the TSR will not have this. The reason is that location, severity and duration of all TSR's are published in the weekly notices and are known about in advance whereas an ESR might spring up as if by magic part way through a driver's turn of duty.

Partly correct.
The white numerals on a blue board is the set-up code for that specific signal. These are quite small boards, though. Certainly smaller than a signal ID plate.
The black boards with the white diamond and black numerals are the markers for the CSR area boundaries and give the new area code. In order to get a complete CSR set-up, you need to know both the area code and signal number

A lot of these signs and plates vary by region and there are still some of the old equipment in use
The TSR is supposed to be a black square with yellow numbers
However, there is also a battery lit version and this is still used on the WCML and ECML, which is a blue square with white numbers

 

[O L Leigh]

The TSR is supposed to be a black square with yellow numbers

Not according to the Rule Book.

O L Leigh

 

[Ascot]

A lot of these signs and plates vary by region and there are still some of the old equipment in use
The TSR is supposed to be a black square with yellow numbers
However, there is also a battery lit version and this is still used on the WCML and ECML, which is a blue square with white numbers

Thought they we're luminus yellowy green?

 

[Tomnick]

I believe white-on-blue was used at some point in the past (when TSR boards were gas-lit), but I'd be very surprised if any such equipment remained in use on the national network - I've never seen it, and the rulebook makes no mention of it. Never even heard of yellow-on-black being used!

Ascot's reflective black-on-yellow is indeed the current form of signage as referred to in the rulebook.

 

[Scott]

The red diamond/circular signs are the normal speed limit in kph. IIRC the blue ones are emergency speed limits. Usually where the blue signs are there is also a blue light on a post nearby. I've never seem them in use, but I guess when the lights are on then the speed limits on the blue signs come into effect.

I think you're correct here, because I had noticed the metros are going much slower than usual on that part of the track and that part of the track has usually had problems with the small cliff next to it eg it has had to be reinforced a lot to prevent it from collapsing.

Maybe it needs to be re-inforced again and if metros travel at a high speed past it the vibrations could cause it to collapse, so there's an emergancy slow-speed limit when going past the cliff. Haven't seen any blue lights though, however seeing as the metro isn't part of Network Rail and it isn't a high-speed or long nework, the drivers are probably just reminded about it everyday before starting work and the sign is there as another reminder.

Thanks. :-P

 

[dan_atki]

This is a weird one - I don't see why there would be a 'minimum speed' sign - especially as when in that picture above the minimum speed would be the same as the maximum speed!!

After looking a bit at www.railsigns.co.uk (section 13), I have concluded that it is the new style of metric board for the metro. Such boards are shown to be circular with a red border, white text on black background. The black background is meant to signify that the speed is in metric units without showing 'kmh' on the sign too. Now, in this case the sign is borderless and is blue - my theory is that the sign may just be for the metro, used in the same way. To prevent any confusion with NR a different colour is used.

Regarding the white on blue TSR, these were battery powered signs introduced in the 1980s, now completely phased out. (Section 14 from railsigns.co.uk).

 

[driver9000]

The white numeral/blue background TSR/ESR boards are no longer in use on the national network, and they arent refered to in the rulebook or sectional appendix. All TSR/ESR boards are now the relective yellow examples as shown in Ascots post. The blue/white ones ended in the mid 90s along with the flashing lamps at the warning board.

 

[TheSlash]

You are still required to have a flashing indicator at an ESR warning board. You should have Magnet - Magnet Metal Mickey - Advanced Warning Board - Commence Board - Termination Board. A 'R'eminder board is to be placed at the starting end of any platform that falls within the first magnet and Termination board.

 

[driver9000]

The flashing lamps at an ESR are incorporated into the dalek 200yds before the warning board, the warning board is the standard style with two dots beneath the speed