Speed Cameras

[DynamicSpirit]

Out of interest, are parking fines just about the money?

Indeed. But you could go further than that - perhaps Dave1987 should clarify whether he thinks that fines given out for all sorts of minor crimes are also 'just about the money'? Vandalism? Burglary? Attack causing ABH?

 

[EM2]

So you are saying that if there was a huge reduction in speeding they would shrink the road policing unit?

I refer you to post #129 - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2383016&postcount=129
If no-one is speeding, what would road police need to do? A lot less, is the answer.

 

[Antman]

I refer you to post #129 - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2383016&postcount=129
If no-one is speeding, what would road police need to do? A lot less, is the answer.

Traffic police have plenty to deal with other than speeding, plenty of uninsured and unlicensed drivers on the road often driving unroadworthy vehicles and possibly under the influence of something

 

[Butts]

Why don't we have variable speed limits on Motorways depending on the time of day (allowing for weather conditions). I don't mean like the current bits on the M25 etc.

Surely a higher speed limit could be warranted when it is quiet ?

 

[fowler9]

Why don't we have variable speed limits on Motorways depending on the time of day (allowing for weather conditions). I don't mean like the current bits on the M25 etc.

Surely a higher speed limit could be warranted when it is quiet ?

I don't know, that would be assuming that some of the clowns that populate our roads have any inherent ability to control their steeds at a faster speed no matter how empty the roads are. Even if they just kill themselves it still costs the public money.

 

[Geezertronic]

I must admit that since I have had my Nextbase dash camera in my car (and RoadHawk camera before that), I have noticed I am more likely to watch my speed particularly on the motorways. To be honest I only got one when some idiot turned left in the right hand lane into me. Fortunately I have not had cause to rely on it in anger (although there have been a few occasions when I could have uploaded the footage to Idiot UK Drivers Exposed )

 

[anme]

It's generally a small, slightly aged, perfectly clean silver car, often with a flat cap in evidence. In times gone by it generally would be a Rover, but less likely now. Often to be found screaming along at 20 mph in first gear. Particularly in evidence on Sundays.

They need pulling over by the police and their licence taking away.

Vans, trucks, traction engines etc etc people expect it from.

The old fool who can't accept it's time to quit who does 42 mph as mentioned before, whether it's a 30/40/50/60/70 should be removed from the road with extreme prejudice for gross incompetence.

I do a lot of driving and much of it is on single carriageway roads pootling along behind wagons. Not a problem. Pootling along behind motoring wastes of oxygen who flash their lights at you if you overtake on a 3 mile long downhill straight can't help but frustrate you after a while.

Based on what you wrote in this post, you should not be driving. For the sake of the lives and livelihoods of others, please stop. How do you suggest this "old fool" gets around? It seems sociopathic to expect them to give up their way of life because of your anger problems.

 

[Busaholic]

Traffic police have plenty to deal with other than speeding, plenty of uninsured and unlicensed drivers on the road often driving unroadworthy vehicles and possibly under the influence of something

Fewer Traffic Police around now due to budget cuts, with untaxed cars increasing by the day thanks to the ludicrous decision to phase out tax discs, and untaxed = uninsured. Madness!

 

[tony_mac]

Fewer Traffic Police around now due to budget cuts, with untaxed cars increasing by the day thanks to the ludicrous decision to phase out tax discs

Why is that ludicrous? They have ANPR cameras which are much more efficient than having people walking around looking for tax discs, and it saves the unnecessary bureaucracy.

untaxed = uninsured

They are entirely separate; it's just as easy to be untaxed and insured as it is taxed and uninsured.

 

[Busaholic]

Why is that ludicrous? They have ANPR cameras which are much more efficient than having people walking around looking for tax discs, and it saves the unnecessary bureaucracy.

They are entirely separate; it's just as easy to be untaxed and insured as it is taxed and uninsured.

You seem to be unaware that if you are untaxed then any insurance cover you may have taken out is invalid - in any case, why would you bother with getting insured, at a much higher price than any car tax?

As for 'unnecessary bureaucracy' I would suggest the situation is exactly the .opposite. In last week's 'Bus and Coach Weekly' a bus operator was complaining bitterly about one of his buses being stopped in a local bus station and impounded by the police for 'non-payment of tax' when the receipt for such payment at his local Post Office was in his office. A valid tax disc would have settled the matter there and then - instead, at police insistence, he is having to issue the driver of each of his buses with the relevant excise payment receipt for them to carry round. What an improvement, eh?

 

[chorleychump]

Well two points, firstly 50 is a guesstimate it was probably slower than than, certainly the closing speed was very dramatic, secondly you do not know the circumstances so the rest of your post is a bit presumptuous.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Yes so why won't the powers that be honest and say they actually love all that revenue that comes in then? On the news the woman explaining about these new cameras was at pains to say it was about safety and not money even though she admitted they did get a lot of revenue from speed cameras. Hmmmm

If you can't do the time don't do the crime. It is really very simple - do not exceed the speed limit set by law.
Or is driving a sport where the laws of the land are merely game rules to be bent and twisted for personal benefit.
What other crimes should we condone or even encourage?

 

[Haydn1971]

As for 'unnecessary bureaucracy' I would suggest the situation is exactly the .opposite. In last week's 'Bus and Coach Weekly' a bus operator was complaining bitterly about one of his buses being stopped in a local bus station and impounded by the police for 'non-payment of tax' when the receipt for such payment at his local Post Office was in his office. A valid tax disc would have settled the matter there and then - instead, at police insistence, he is having to issue the driver of each of his buses with the relevant excise payment receipt for them to carry round. What an improvement, eh?

I suspect it's more likely that the duty wasn't paid and the operator was complaining to cover up their error rather than an error in the system.

 

[furnessvale]

You seem to be unaware that if you are untaxed then any insurance cover you may have taken out is invalid - in any case, why would you bother with getting insured, at a much higher price than any car tax?

There are actually very few offences for which an insurance company can invalidate a legitimately purchased insurance policy and no tax is not one of them. If it were possible for them to do so, you could see them refusing to pay out where careless or dangerous driving or drink driving was involved.

It is a few years since I was actively involved in such matters but IIRC, driving whilst disqualified IS one offence which invalidates insurance.

By insurance I mean cover for the third party, not yourself. Nothing I have said will preclude an insurance company from paying out a claim to a third party, and then sueing their client for reimbursement.

 

[Busaholic]

There are actually very few offences for which an insurance company can invalidate a legitimately purchased insurance policy and no tax is not one of them. If it were possible for them to do so, you could see them refusing to pay out where careless or dangerous driving or drink driving was involved.

It is a few years since I was actively involved in such matters but IIRC, driving whilst disqualified IS one offence which invalidates insurance.

By insurance I mean cover for the third party, not yourself. Nothing I have said will preclude an insurance company from paying out a claim to a third party, and then sueing their client for reimbursement.

You can invalidate an insurance policy simply by replacing a broken wing mirror with one not bought at vast expense from the manufacturer's official suppliers!
As to 3rd party payouts, us mugs who fork out for insurance pay extra on our premiums for a scheme administered by the insurance companies to aid the victims of the uninsured.

As far as implying the bus operator was being economical with the truth, the fact that (a) he raised the story in the first place when it wasn't in the public domain and (b) he named the Post Office and the dates suggest, to me at least, that he was telling the truth.

P.S. Sorry, the last para was in response to Haydn.

 

[Haydn1971]

As far as implying the bus operator was being economical with the truth, the fact that (a) he raised the story in the first place when it wasn't in the public domain and (b) he named the Post Office and the dates suggest, to me at least, that he was telling the truth.

Of course, just like every other star of the regular police documentaries where the innocent motorist goes through a long process of misdirection, only to be mentioned in the end credits as not having the appropriate paperwork after all - having worked with numerous ex traffic police offices over the years, I've learnt one common theme... If there's a long story attached, it's probably made up !

 

[tony_mac]

You can invalidate an insurance policy simply by replacing a broken wing mirror with one not bought at vast expense from the manufacturer's official suppliers!

As furnessvale pointed out already, that would not invalidate 3rd party insurance - legally, it can't, so you wouldn't be 'driving without insurance' if your vehicle is untaxed or had a replacement wing mirror etc.

in any case, why would you bother with getting insured, at a much higher price than any car tax?

For one thing, driving without insurance is a minimum 6 points; driving without tax is not endorsable.

he is having to issue the driver of each of his buses with the relevant excise payment receipt for them to carry round. What an improvement, eh?

Which is no more hassle than having a tax disk in the window. Meanwhile, the other 99.99% of the population don't worry about carrying round scraps of paper any more.

 

[miami]

Do they send out reminders when your tax is due? That's the main benefit of a tax disc - so you can see when you need to renew.

 

[Butts]

Do they send out reminders when your tax is due? That's the main benefit of a tax disc - so you can see when you need to renew.

Yes they do (or at least they did last September) - personally I miss the Old tax Disc.

 

[furnessvale]

You can invalidate an insurance policy simply by replacing a broken wing mirror with one not bought at vast expense from the manufacturer's official suppliers!
As to 3rd party payouts, us mugs who fork out for insurance pay extra on our premiums for a scheme administered by the insurance companies to aid the victims of the uninsured.

As I said, I was referring to the legal requirement for 3rd party insurance which would form the basis for any offence of not being insured.

Section 151 Road Traffic Act 1988 lays out when an insurance company can invalidate an insurance policy and it is very limited indeed.

You can be drunk with 4 bald tyres no mirrors or windscreen no tax and still the insurance company will have to cover 3rd parties so you have not committed the offence of driving without insurance.

If you wrap yourself round a tree whilst in that condition I doubt the insurer will pay your costs but they would still have to cover 3rd party injury claims arising.

The Motor Insurance Bureau scheme for paying 3rd party claims is quite separate and covers those occasions where the offending driver is genuinely uninsured.

 

[Domh245]

Yes they do (or at least they did last September) - personally I miss the Old tax Disc.

I don't miss it personally, mainly because my Mother no longer wastes money on novelty tax disc holders that seemed to break after a week.

 

[radamfi]

As far as implying the bus operator was being economical with the truth, the fact that (a) he raised the story in the first place when it wasn't in the public domain and (b) he named the Post Office and the dates suggest, to me at least, that he was telling the truth.

Do bus operators still need to visit the post office? Can't they pay online like individuals?

 

[LowLevel]

Based on what you wrote in this post, you should not be driving. For the sake of the lives and livelihoods of others, please stop. How do you suggest this "old fool" gets around? It seems sociopathic to expect them to give up their way of life because of your anger problems.

I'm not fussed how they get around. I generally drive legally, in a courteous manner. Anyone who will drive at 42 mph, as booked, on a perfectly adequate national speed limit road, and then continue to crash along at 42 mph through a rural village with a 30 limit because 'they just drive' is a menace and shouldn't be on the road regardless of any impact on their way of life. It is because of this kind of attitude towards the assessment competence of increasingly elderly drivers that we get bizarre incidents like them plowing head on into other vehicles while chugging along the wrong way down a dual carriageway or motorway.

You are either competent to drive in a reasonable manner or are not.

I've been driving for years, as I mentioned previously, covering thousands of miles over the full 24 hour clock, in all weathers, generally without incident, have attended the scene of road accidents and dealt with them competently (including one involving an upside down car on an open motorway) and am a qualified railway guard, with a clean licence who just enjoys spouting off on the internet occasionally about life's frustrations

I can only suggest that I have been psychometrically tested and been found to be competent to be in charge of a train load of passengers and therefore I suggest you have little to worry about me as a road user - I have previously been described as driving like 'Mother ^^^^ing Teresa'

I think all drivers should be subject to regular tests of competence but particularly elderly ones - don't ask me how you'd pay for it though.

 

[Chrism20]

Yes they do (or at least they did last September) - personally I miss the Old tax Disc.

They definitely still do, I've just paid mine online this morning using the reminder that arrived weeks ago.

 

[PermitToTravel]

I think all drivers should be subject to regular tests of competence but particularly elderly ones - don't ask me how you'd pay for it though.

Easy - it's free if you pass but £1k if you fail (and each subsequent attempt costs twice what the previous one did). Will nicely purify the databases of drivers

 

[GB]

Easy - it's free if you pass but £1k if you fail (and each subsequent attempt costs twice what the previous one did). Will nicely purify the databases of drivers

Just because you can pass a test doesn't mean your a good driver out in the real world.

 

[furnessvale]

Easy - it's free if you pass but £1k if you fail (and each subsequent attempt costs twice what the previous one did). Will nicely purify the databases of drivers

Does that also apply to youngsters and retests ordered by a court?

If so, I am with you.

 

[EM2]

Back to Dave's original point.
I haven't been using the A12 between Hackney and Redbridge recently, but have had cause to this week, and find to my surprise that most of the speed cameras (on both carriageways) have been removed.
Now, if Dave is right and the cameras were only there to raise revenue, what would be the reasoning for removing them?

 

[PeterC]

The really dangerous slow drivers are the ones who join the M11 from the eastbound North Circular where the lane gain is as lane 3. A panic stricken numptie doing 40 in the "fast lane" isn't somebody you want to be near.

 

[jon0844]

Now, if Dave is right and the cameras were only there to raise revenue, what would be the reasoning for removing them?

Weren't these still the old style Gatso cameras that took physical film? I'd expect them all to go at some point, and be replaced with newer digital ones.

 

[EM2]

The really dangerous slow drivers are the ones who join the M11 from the eastbound North Circular where the lane gain is as lane 3. A panic stricken numptie doing 40 in the "fast lane" isn't somebody you want to be near.

Do you mean joining at Charlie Brown's? The speed limit off the NCR to the bottom of the M11 is only 50mph anyway...