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[Speculative] Ideas for First Glasgow service changes

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Jordan Adam

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Regarding renumbering, I would have the following below (all routes in the former Strathclyde Region, not just First Glasgow):

1-199 Glasgow, Renfrewshire, East Renfrewshire, East Dunbartonshire (including the former Cumbernauld & Kilsyth District)
200-299 North and South Lanarkshire (excluding Cumbernauld & Kilsyth DC)
300-399 West Dunbartonshire, Helensburgh
400-499 Ayrshire (all three councils)
500-599 Inverclyde
600-699 Minibus services supported by SPT
700-799 School and special event services
800-899 Works services or journeys running to/from a distant garage
900-999 Scottish Citylink
X prefix for limited stop and/or motorway services

The above would be a far simpler numbering system and would remove duplicate numbers e.g. in Glasgow there are 2 versions of the 38 - First Glasgow and McGills where the latter runs along Paisley Road West. The McGills 38 could easily be renumbered to the 138 for example.
I'd imagine if regulation did happen and the routes were renumbered the McGill's 38 would probably be renumbered to 8/8A for more consistency with First's 9/9A & 10 since they all go along the same corridor. First's 8 would be renumbered to something more consistent with the 90.
 
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PaulMc7

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I'd imagine if regulation did happen and the routes were renumbered the McGill's 38 would probably be renumbered to 8/8A for more consistency with First's 9/9A & 10 since they all go along the same corridor. First's 8 would be renumbered to something more consistent with the 90.
It would be a tough one to sort out as the 8 already fits with the 7/7A at Lambhill and Cadder. It could be renumbered as a 91 if First were ever to market it with the 90 for some branding but I doubt it would ever change otherwise. A lot of routes would probably need to change in order to make routes fit in a decent numbering system.
 
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Bus Lightyear

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I remember the 138 to Newton Mearns, was usually an old Ailsa.
It was an amalgamation of the 51 and 38B and those great old Ailsa workhorses were normally seen on it as well as some ex Possil Metrobuses.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I'd imagine if regulation did happen and the routes were renumbered the McGill's 38 would probably be renumbered to 8/8A for more consistency with First's 9/9A & 10 since they all go along the same corridor. First's 8 would be renumbered to something more consistent with the 90.
I remember the McGill's 38 many years ago as the Western 636, 637 and 638 then it was the Clydeside 36 and 38.
 

PaulMc7

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I was having a think with the changes coming up on Sunday and I feel like some of them are quite smart to be honest. I will probably suggest more changes I think could work after a week or two with them in effect and also when I see what the Lanarkshire changes on the 26th involve.

To keep to the topic of this thread though, I'd do a couple of things differently to attach onto the back of the changes:

The 38s- I'd keep them consistent where each individual service starts and terminates from the same place every journey apart from the ones that start in the city centre in the early mornings. It's not as bad as it used to be for an absolutely massive mix of terminus spots but there are still quite a few.

M11 + M60- Combine the 2 of them where every second journey is the full route of the 2 services so it keeps the every 30 minutes pattern to Gartnavel Hospital.
 

DJFraz

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Bus services in North Carntyne have been decimated. First Glasgow could not wait to delete the 32 Parkhead to Craigend which they had reduced to hourly 9 till 3.30 so it was a basic, threadbare service. What use is a bus service that starts at 9AM? They were asked to re-route to cover the back of Garthamlock, the Fort and Easterhouse Health Centre and the Centre itself. Bearing in mind the 38s terminate at the Fort. At the other end rather it terminated at Helenvale via half empty Todd Street. They were asked to extend it to cover the the train station on the Parade, Duke Street and Gallowgate where there are now loads of shops so it would basically have been a shoppers service but they were not interested.

Cranhill has no town service therefore I requested FG to look at re-routing the 38C which runs to Chryston via North Carntyne and Cranhill then up through Craigend, but they are totally intransigent and in no way interested in my area. There are other options to cover the old 32 route, bearing in mind North Craigend, Ruchazie and parts of Carntyne now have no local service to Parkhead. I also found this out, to my cost, whilst stuck at the bottom of Byers Road on Friday. After 4.30pm, the 8 terminates at Robroyston then later, at Summerston. Absolutely hopeless and I required 3 buses to get home as the 90 did not appear.
 
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route101

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Bus services in North Carntyne have been decimated. First Glasgow could not wait to delete the 32 Parkhead to Craigend which they had reduced to hourly 9 till 3.30 so it was a basic, threadbare service. What use is a bus service that starts at 9AM? They were asked to re-route to cover the back of Garthamlock, the Fort and Easterhouse Health Centre and the Centre itself. Bearing in mind the 38s terminate at the Fort. At the other end rather it terminated at Helenvale via half empty Todd Street. They were asked to extend it to cover the the train station on the Parade, Duke Street and Gallowgate where there are now loads of shops so it would basically have been a shoppers service but they were not interested.

Cranhill has no town service therefore I requested FG to look at re-routing the 38E which runs to Chryston via North Carntyne and Cranhill then up through Craigend, but they are totally intransigent and in no way interested in my area. There are other options to cover the old 32 route, bearing in mind North Craigend, Ruchazie and parts of Carntyne now have no local service to Parkhead. I also found this out, to my cost, whilst stuck at the bottom of Byers Road on Friday. After 4.30pm, the 8 terminates at Robroyston then later, at Summerston. Absolutely hopeless and I required 3 buses to get home as the 90 did not appear.
Carntyne and Cranhill used to have the 51 and 43 to town.

9 am to 330 PM services are aimed at pensioners during the day.
 

PaulMc7

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I do wonder if services like the 32 would have remained had Covid and the driver shortage not happened together. We lost a few services that had been on a shaky peg for years to be fair.
 

GusB

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Bus services in North Carntyne have been decimated. First Glasgow could not wait to delete the 32 Parkhead to Craigend which they had reduced to hourly 9 till 3.30 so it was a basic, threadbare service. What use is a bus service that starts at 9AM? They were asked to re-route to cover the back of Garthamlock, the Fort and Easterhouse Health Centre and the Centre itself. Bearing in mind the 38s terminate at the Fort. At the other end rather it terminated at Helenvale via half empty Todd Street. They were asked to extend it to cover the the train station on the Parade, Duke Street and Gallowgate where there are now loads of shops so it would basically have been a shoppers service but they were not interested.

Cranhill has no town service therefore I requested FG to look at re-routing the 38E which runs to Chryston via North Carntyne and Cranhill then up through Craigend, but they are totally intransigent and in no way interested in my area. There are other options to cover the old 32 route, bearing in mind North Craigend, Ruchazie and parts of Carntyne now have no local service to Parkhead. I also found this out, to my cost, whilst stuck at the bottom of Byers Road on Friday. After 4.30pm, the 8 terminates at Robroyston then later, at Summerston. Absolutely hopeless and I required 3 buses to get home as the 90 did not appear.
It's not really clear from your post whether you're suggesting improvements to the current service (on-topic) or just having a rant about the existing services (off-topic).
 

DJFraz

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Perhaps start with the issue regarding the 8 and its current timetable. I also made it clear re a change I would make to 38C (not 38E) as originally posted. Broomhouse, which used to have an Eastern Scottish service, is now a massive area with ongoing new build, I would look to providing a service there.
 
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Bus Lightyear

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Bus services in North Carntyne have been decimated. First Glasgow could not wait to delete the 32 Parkhead to Craigend which they had reduced to hourly 9 till 3.30 so it was a basic, threadbare service. What use is a bus service that starts at 9AM? They were asked to re-route to cover the back of Garthamlock, the Fort and Easterhouse Health Centre and the Centre itself. Bearing in mind the 38s terminate at the Fort. At the other end rather it terminated at Helenvale via half empty Todd Street. They were asked to extend it to cover the the train station on the Parade, Duke Street and Gallowgate where there are now loads of shops so it would basically have been a shoppers service but they were not interested.

Cranhill has no town service therefore I requested FG to look at re-routing the 38E which runs to Chryston via North Carntyne and Cranhill then up through Craigend, but they are totally intransigent and in no way interested in my area. There are other options to cover the old 32 route, bearing in mind North Craigend, Ruchazie and parts of Carntyne now have no local service to Parkhead. I also found this out, to my cost, whilst stuck at the bottom of Byers Road on Friday. After 4.30pm, the 8 terminates at Robroyston then later, at Summerston. Absolutely hopeless and I required 3 buses to get home as the 90 did not appear.
Did you ever consider writing to other operators to see if any of them are willing to introduce a service in these areas?
 

DJFraz

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I did indeed, I tried Stagecoach, McGills and JMB but no luck other than to say they would suggest it to their network teams. I guess it`s a lost cause.
 
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PaulMc7

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One thing I've been thinking about is what First can do in order to maybe get some people out of cars and it made me wonder if a tactic that they could use is to make a lot of routes far more direct and quicker but then fill in the gaps with more long orbital routes like the 8 or 90.

From experience, both of them certainly seem to be busy enough because they serve so many areas and offer non-city centre links that are essential such as hospitals, colleges and universities. I feel like services covering the city centre should be far more direct and serve less areas with longer routes to fill in the gap and still connect with the more direct services at certain points of the route.

The 60/60A and the 90 from Parkhead to Maryhill aren't that different in journey time but both offer significant and different options. The 60/60A offers a city centre link whereas the 90 offers you the Royal Infirmary and Glasgow Kelvin College at Springburn. However, the 60/60A are routes that could be adjusted and broken down to create something more direct.

A good example to look at is "The One." This has arguably been one of First's best creative route sets and as they've evolved by bringing in the 1C and 1D, they've been constantly busy even when other routes have struggled due to being significantly quicker than other options that used to exist.
 
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adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I have suggested previously regarding renumbering the 38C to the 36 and to start from and terminate at Buchanan, with it no longer running south of the Clyde.

Extended from Chryston to Abronhill* via Gartferry Road, Mollinsburn, Condorrat Main Road and Morar Drive timing point, A8011 Glasgow Road, Seafar Roundabout, Greenfaulds Road, Jane's Brae, A8011 Glasgow Road, Cumbernauld TC, Cumbernauld Village, Old Inns, Wardpark, Forest Road, Whitehill Road, Blackthorn Road, and Larch Road.

This would serve the new residential buildings along the section of Gartferry Road west of Glenmanor School (the X3 runs along Glenmanor Avenue and Stoneyetts Road), restores the link between Muirhead and Mollinsburn/Condorrat, restores a Royal Infirmary/Glasgow link from Main Road and the north ring in Condorrat (which it had always had until March 2020), restores Condorrat north ring - Greenfaulds Road link (which it had always had until July 2022 when Stagecoach Ayr took off the X28), the expanded retail development at Wardpark/Westway with Abronhill (taking over Dunns 49 on a much improved daily frequency as the 49 only runs every 60 minutes Mon-Fri daytime and breaks for lunch, resulting in a 2 hour gap).

*First Glasgow/KCB used to run to Abronhill until Simplicity in 2013, which seemed surprising no longer running to Abronhill being as it is the largest populated neighbourhood of the New Town. Also, Abronhill is famous for the 1981 Bill Forsyth film Gregory's Girl having being filmed there.
 

voidwxrranty

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One thing I've been thinking about is what First can do in order to maybe get some people out of cars and it made me wonder if a tactic that they could use is to make a lot of routes far more direct and quicker but then fill in the gaps with more long orbital routes like the 8 or 90.

From experience, both of them certainly seem to be busy enough because they serve so many areas and offer non-city centre links that are essential such as hospitals, colleges and universities. I feel like services covering the city centre should be far more direct and serve less areas with longer routes to fill in the gap and still connect with the more direct services at certain points of the route.

The 60/60A and the 90 from Parkhead to Maryhill aren't that different in journey time but both offer significant and different options. The 60/60A offers a city centre link whereas the 90 offers you the Royal Infirmary and Glasgow Kelvin College at Springburn. However, the 60/60A are routes that could be adjusted and broken down to create something more direct.

A good example to look at is "The One." This has arguably been one of First's best creative route sets and as they've evolved by bringing in the 1C and 1D, they've been constantly busy even when other routes have struggled due to being significantly quicker than other options that used to exist.
With the 60/60A vs the 90, if frequency is what you want then take the 60’s, the 90 being every 30 minutes as opposed to every 15 (feel free to correct on that as I don’t remember the 60’s combined frequency), journey wise, the 90 has a lot more areas it can get stuck in traffic compared to the 60’s, eg being the Springburn Expressway (A803).
 

PaulMc7

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With the 60/60A vs the 90, if frequency is what you want then take the 60’s, the 90 being every 30 minutes as opposed to every 15 (feel free to correct on that as I don’t remember the 60’s combined frequency), journey wise, the 90 has a lot more areas it can get stuck in traffic compared to the 60’s, eg being the Springburn Expressway (A803).
You're correct on the combined frequency. I'd say the 60 is worse for getting stuck in certain areas especially now with the long term works at St George's Cross and it gets caught at most traffic lights from Glasgow Cross until there too. My experiences with the 90 have been far less congestion heavy.
 

Tom Gallacher

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One thing I've been thinking about is what First can do in order to maybe get some people out of cars and it made me wonder if a tactic that they could use is to make a lot of routes far more direct and quicker but then fill in the gaps with more long orbital routes like the 8 or 90.

From experience, both of them certainly seem to be busy enough because they serve so many areas and offer non-city centre links that are essential such as hospitals, colleges and universities. I feel like services covering the city centre should be far more direct and serve less areas with longer routes to fill in the gap and still connect with the more direct services at certain points of the route.

The 60/60A and the 90 from Parkhead to Maryhill aren't that different in journey time but both offer significant and different options. The 60/60A offers a city centre link whereas the 90 offers you the Royal Infirmary and Glasgow Kelvin College at Springburn. However, the 60/60A are routes that could be adjusted and broken down to create something more direct.

A good example to look at is "The One." This has arguably been one of First's best creative route sets and as they've evolved by bringing in the 1C and 1D, they've been constantly busy even when other routes have struggled due to being significantly quicker than other options that used to exist.
The "One" is perhaps not the best example to use as it has the advantage of easy access to a major, no parking allowed, dual carriageway within a relatively short time of leaving the terminus in the city centre. This also works on inbound journeys as time can be made up on this part of the route. I can't think of any other route which has this advantage (other than express services obviously which access the motorway network). The downside of using the Expressway however is that any hold ups on that road can result in far greater delays but fortunately these seem to be few and far between.
 

PaulMc7

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The "One" is perhaps not the best example to use as it has the advantage of easy access to a major, no parking allowed, dual carriageway within a relatively short time of leaving the terminus in the city centre. This also works on inbound journeys as time can be made up on this part of the route. I can't think of any other route which has this advantage (other than express services obviously which access the motorway network). The downside of using the Expressway however is that any hold ups on that road can result in far greater delays but fortunately these seem to be few and far between.
Their reliability isn't great but it's the Dumbarton to Clydebank part of the route that causes it more than anything. At peaks, coming towards the lights at Anderston isn't great but that's more down to the fact so many car users try to turn left at the last minute.
 

Tom Gallacher

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Their reliability isn't great but it's the Dumbarton to Clydebank part of the route that causes it more than anything. At peaks, coming towards the lights at Anderston isn't great but that's more down to the fact so many car users try to turn left at the last minute.
Sorry Paul, I should have perhaps worded it better. I was referring to the delays caused within the city centre. Peak time at Anderston is problematic but it doesn't really cause a great deal of delay compared to earlier in the route as you suggested. If only they had built the Dumbarton Road relief corridor in the 80's when they had the chance.
 

PaulMc7

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Sorry Paul, I should have perhaps worded it better. I was referring to the delays caused within the city centre. Peak time at Anderston is problematic but it doesn't really cause a great deal of delay compared to earlier in the route as you suggested. If only they had built the Dumbarton Road relief corridor in the 80's when they had the chance.
That would most certainly have helped. I don't really think there is much you can do with "The One" to make them quicker without causing any issues.

Taking them out of Haldane probably wouldn't help, taking the 1 out of the Vale of Leven hospital and putting the 206 in its place would probably cause complaints, taking the 1 and 1B out of St James Retail Park in Dumbarton and replacing them with the 206 would cause complaints, making them stay on the A82 and all going down through Mountblow means Bowling and Old Kilpatrick lose their bus and Old Kilpatrick can be quite busy sometimes, unless the 1D became all double decker, making them go along Glasgow Road omitting Whitecrook wouldn't work as the 1D on its own wouldn't handle the passenger numbers and using South Street wouldn't work as they're very busy through Scotstoun.
 
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That would most certainly have helped. I don't really think there is much you can do with "The One" to make them quicker without causing any issues.
Choices, Choices? Remove the 1/1A/1B from Chalmer St & Whitecrook, the 1D can still service these areas in tandem with the 2 & 6.

If the 1/A serviced Dumbarton road-only it would make them operate more quickly into Glasgow and it would then allow Double Deckers to be used if nessesary.

Fundamentally by doing this there would still be alternative services along Whitecrook & Chalmer St.

I’d never viewed the Balloch or Helensburgh routes as city routes where as the 2 & 6, certainly!

Taking them out of Haldane probably wouldn't help, taking the 1 out of the Vale of Leven hospital and putting the 206 in its place would probably cause complaints, taking the 1 and 1B out of St James Retail Park in Dumbarton and replacing them with the 206 would cause complaints, making them stay on the A82 and all going down through Mountblow means Bowling and Old Kilpatrick lose their bus and Old Kilpatrick can be quite busy sometimes, unless the 1D became all double decker, making them go along Glasgow Road omitting Whitecrook wouldn't work as the 1D on its own wouldn't handle the passenger numbers and using South Street wouldn't work as they're very busy through Scotstoun.
The 1D going fully double decker would surely still be easy enough, certainly with the fact there is still an on going plan to replace older vehicles as of yet what any new buses will be is not known, consider that the 77 could go electric then you have diesel double deckers right there for the 1D.

I’m also confused at the fact the Balloch routes don’t go to Ben Lomand these days, surely that would be good for the summer months.

The 1 & 1A being used as part town routes around Balloch especially surely doesn’t help with there reliability or quickness going into Glasgow.

I’m not sure on what the 206 or 208 does in Balloch so can’t comment regarding these.

Even if this is all hypothetical the insurety surrounding driver availability, ridership and revenue must all be making this a headache in the real world.
 

DJFraz

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I have suggested previously regarding renumbering the 38C to the 36 and to start from and terminate at Buchanan, with it no longer running south of the Clyde.

Extended from Chryston to Abronhill* via Gartferry Road, Mollinsburn, Condorrat Main Road and Morar Drive timing point, A8011 Glasgow Road, Seafar Roundabout, Greenfaulds Road, Jane's Brae, A8011 Glasgow Road, Cumbernauld TC, Cumbernauld Village, Old Inns, Wardpark, Forest Road, Whitehill Road, Blackthorn Road, and Larch Road.

This would serve the new residential buildings along the section of Gartferry Road west of Glenmanor School (the X3 runs along Glenmanor Avenue and Stoneyetts Road), restores the link between Muirhead and Mollinsburn/Condorrat, restores a Royal Infirmary/Glasgow link from Main Road and the north ring in Condorrat (which it had always had until March 2020), restores Condorrat north ring - Greenfaulds Road link (which it had always had until July 2022 when Stagecoach Ayr took off the X28), the expanded retail development at Wardpark/Westway with Abronhill (taking over Dunns 49 on a much improved daily frequency as the 49 only runs every 60 minutes Mon-Fri daytime and breaks for lunch, resulting in a 2 hour gap).

*First Glasgow/KCB used to run to Abronhill until Simplicity in 2013, which seemed surprising no longer running to Abronhill being as it is the largest populated neighbourhood of the New Town. Also, Abronhill is famous for the 1981 Bill Forsyth film Gregory's Girl having being filmed there.
Your suggestion re 38C is a great one but sadly way too progressive for a company that has issues connecting communities in this way. To think of the services that went via Muirhead, it`s shocking to observe current service levels with no direct route to Cumbernauld via Riddrie, Stepps etc.
 
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PaulMc7

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Your suggestion re 38C is a great one but sadly way too progressive for a company that has issues connecting communities in this way. To think of the services that went via Muirhead, it`s shocking to observe current service levels with no direct route to Cumbernauld via Riddrie, Stepps etc.
There aren't enough bus users in Stepps for it to be viable to be honest. The 38C even on the every 45 mins timetable isn't overloading with passengers in the off peak. I've also used the X3 into Cumbernauld a few times and even that isn't always too busy.

The train is also very quick from Stepps to Cumbernauld so if anyone was to choose quickness over cost, the bus just never wins in that situation.

I'm hoping that the low emission zone has a bigger impact than I think it will otherwise the only thing we will see with the bus network is cuts. I think a few route changes to create new options are needed but they need to be very carefully put together with the current driver resource issues. The network especially on a Friday and Saturday, seems to become a cancellation fest still. Mondays to Thursdays are better by a long way.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
There aren't enough bus users in Stepps for it to be viable to be honest. The 38C even on the every 45 mins timetable isn't overloading with passengers in the off peak. I've also used the X3 into Cumbernauld a few times and even that isn't always too busy.

The train is also very quick from Stepps to Cumbernauld so if anyone was to choose quickness over cost, the bus just never wins in that situation.

I'm hoping that the low emission zone has a bigger impact than I think it will otherwise the only thing we will see with the bus network is cuts. I think a few route changes to create new options are needed but they need to be very carefully put together with the current driver resource issues. The network especially on a Friday and Saturday, seems to become a cancellation fest still. Mondays to Thursdays are better by a long way.

Regarding the para in bold, the train from Stepps is only useful if passengers are requiring the vicinity of South Carbrain Road, as that is where Cumbernauld station is. It is nowhere near the town centre (which is on the hilltop), Cumbernauld House, or the Village.

Also, Stepps station reopened slightly further from its original site (which was accessed via the imaginatively named Station Road) and is now near the bottom end of Cardowan Road.
 

PaulMc7

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Regarding the para in bold, the train from Stepps is only useful if passengers are requiring the vicinity of South Carbrain Road, as that is where Cumbernauld station is. It is nowhere near the town centre (which is on the hilltop), Cumbernauld House, or the Village.

Also, Stepps station reopened slightly further from its original site (which was accessed via the imaginatively named Station Road) and is now near the bottom end of Cardowan Road.
I wouldn't say that they are miles away though which is why they still have an impact on bus use. The main issue for buses and making them useful for Cumbernauld is the existence of the M80 and how easy it is to access it from the likes of Muirhead, Stepps etc.

Unless full council areas become low emission zones and those are far harsher on car use unlike the Glasgow one where cars get off so lightly then it's hard to make much change.

I definitely think Cumbernauld as an area is big enough that a successful bus service on top of the X3 could eventually work but it depends on what happens to the town centre.

I think bus services in general should serve industrial estates and business parks more if they wish to get more people out of cars. A lot of the bigger ones with more businesses aren't particularly well served.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I am unsure if the 10 will increase from the present day 30 minute frequency, but if doubled to every 15 minutes, I would suggest the following:

1) Extend to Ballieston or Bargeddie Station via Queen Street Station, Royal Infirmary, and Edinburgh Road.
2) Extend to Barlanark via Queen Street Station, Royal Infirmary, Warriston Street, Carntyne Square, and Greenfield. These can be numbered 11.

Both of the above would provide and restore a direct link between Paisley Road West (Corkerhill Road junction) and the Royal Infirmary, which was broken when the 56 was took off at Simplicity*, and before Overground, when the 39 (Paisley - Craigend via Paisley Road West, Central and Queen Street stations, Royal Infirmary, and Cumbernauld Road) was took off.

*The 56 when Overground was introduced ran to West Regent Street after changing from the 57 at Thornliebank Station, then extended to Auchinairn in 2002 to replace that section of the 16 as it had been revised to run Blairdardie - East Kilbride (Gardenhall or Lindsayfield - I cannot remember exactly) sharing a common section of route with the 18 between Western Infirmary and Greenhills. Regarding the 56 in the opposite direction, when arriving at Peat Road from the Paisley Road West direction, it would change to the 57 to run to Charing Cross via Darnley, South Nutshell, Kyleakin Road, Thornliebank Station, and Pollokshaws Road.
 

PaulMc7

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I am unsure if the 10 will increase from the present day 30 minute frequency, but if doubled to every 15 minutes, I would suggest the following:

1) Extend to Ballieston or Bargeddie Station via Queen Street Station, Royal Infirmary, and Edinburgh Road.
2) Extend to Barlanark via Queen Street Station, Royal Infirmary, Warriston Street, Carntyne Square, and Greenfield. These can be numbered 11.

Both of the above would provide and restore a direct link between Paisley Road West (Corkerhill Road junction) and the Royal Infirmary, which was broken when the 56 was took off at Simplicity*, and before Overground, when the 39 (Paisley - Craigend via Paisley Road West, Central and Queen Street stations, Royal Infirmary, and Cumbernauld Road) was took off.

*The 56 when Overground was introduced ran to West Regent Street after changing from the 57 at Thornliebank Station, then extended to Auchinairn in 2002 to replace that section of the 16 as it had been revised to run Blairdardie - East Kilbride (Gardenhall or Lindsayfield - I cannot remember exactly) sharing a common section of route with the 18 between Western Infirmary and Greenhills. Regarding the 56 in the opposite direction, when arriving at Peat Road from the Paisley Road West direction, it would change to the 57 to run to Charing Cross via Darnley, South Nutshell, Kyleakin Road, Thornliebank Station, and Pollokshaws Road.
If the 10 stayed every 30 minutes, one of those links could work although I expect the 10 to remain as it is due to how much the reliability has improved since the timetable change. I've used it twice from Silverburn and it's got to Oswald Street 2-3 minutes early both times. You could ofcourse have a bus to Baillieston via Barlanark just like the current Sunday service of the 38B.

It's also why I'd never expect a through service involving Silverburn ever again either. The current setup seems to have helped the 57 a fair bit too.

The other side of your idea is what would happen to the current 38B and 38E on the north side? For me, these could link with the 41 given that they're both every 30 minutes and the 41 is every 15 minutes.

For me, the viability of more cross-city routes comes down to the early effects of the low emission zone. I don't expect it to do enough to limit congestion in the city centre but if I'm wrong it would certainly open up the opportunity for more cross-city routes.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
If the 10 stayed every 30 minutes, one of those links could work although I expect the 10 to remain as it is due to how much the reliability has improved since the timetable change. I've used it twice from Silverburn and it's got to Oswald Street 2-3 minutes early both times. You could ofcourse have a bus to Baillieston via Barlanark just like the current Sunday service of the 38B.

It's also why I'd never expect a through service involving Silverburn ever again either. The current setup seems to have helped the 57 a fair bit too.

The other side of your idea is what would happen to the current 38B and 38E on the north side? For me, these could link with the 41 given that they're both every 30 minutes and the 41 is every 15 minutes.

For me, the viability of more cross-city routes comes down to the early effects of the low emission zone. I don't expect it to do enough to limit congestion in the city centre but if I'm wrong it would certainly open up the opportunity for more cross-city routes.

I am unsure if you was intending to mean the Glasgow - Baillieston/Barlanark section or for the section south of the Clyde regarding linking with the 41. What I meant was for the 10 to be doubled in frequency to every 15 minutes, and extend east of the Royal Infirmary to take over the 38B and E routes as these are every 30 minutes each.

South of the Clyde, whichever one of the 38s go to Crookfur, I would suggest having this as a 39 (or 58) but to run via Pollokshaws Road and Woodfarm vice Kilmarnock Road every 30 minutes, as Central Station - Mearns Cross via Kilmarnock Road is already covered by the Stagecoach (Ayr) 4.
 

PaulMc7

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I am unsure if you was intending to mean the Glasgow - Baillieston/Barlanark section or for the section south of the Clyde regarding linking with the 41. What I meant was for the 10 to be doubled in frequency to every 15 minutes, and extend east of the Royal Infirmary to take over the 38B and E routes as these are every 30 minutes each.

South of the Clyde, whichever one of the 38s go to Crookfur, I would suggest having this as a 39 (or 58) but to run via Pollokshaws Road and Woodfarm vice Kilmarnock Road every 30 minutes, as Central Station - Mearns Cross via Kilmarnock Road is already covered by the Stagecoach (Ayr) 4.
I get you now. The link with the 41 I'd suggest is with the 38B and 38E to make them Easterhouse to Rouken Glen if the 10 became Silverburn to Barlanark/Baillieston. You could easily do the 10 as Silverburn to Baillieston with the Sunday route of the 38B too via Barlanark if the frequency stayed every 30 minutes. I don't see it happening though given the reliability of the 10 being the best it's been in years.

The 19 is the strange one for me because it's been quite quiet when I've used it off peak but there isn't a lot you could merge it with given that it's every 20 minutes. I would say use it to gain a new west end link to somewhere but with the work getting done to Byres Road, I'd avoid touching the west end for the next 15-18 months depending on whether the works finish on time.
 

Jordan Adam

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Perhaps if the 10 was ever increased back to a 15 minute frequency it could be combined/timed with the 9 & 9A (which also currently run on 15 minute frequencies individually) so that they provide a 5 minute frequency over the shared section of route. This would be better than running one route every 7/8 minutes and another every 15 minutes along the same corridor.
 

PaulMc7

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On the subject of timing between buses on the same frequency, it's not something that First do well.

The 7/7A and the 75 are every 12 minutes yet due at the same times off peak towards the City Centre from Balmore Road.

The 5 and 6 are every 15 minutes yet from Battlefield but they are due 3 minutes apart.

The 60/60A and 61 are done correctly into the City Centre from Maryhill but towards Maryhill from the City Centre the gaps are 4 minutes then 11 minutes between buses.

The ones also have a horrendous imbalance too as the gaps are heavily inconsistent due to adjusting between Scotstoun and Clydebank to create an every 10 minutes pattern towards Dumbarton and then Old Kilpatrick and Clydebank towards Glasgow to create the 12 minute then 8 minutes gaps.

The 1D is also scheduled to take a different amount of time towards Clydebank from Scotstoun as the rest of the ones.

This could be balanced up with the following timings to create consistency with an every 5 minutes frequency from Osborne Street:

1- 00 and 30
1A- 10 and 40
1B- 20 and 50
1C-15, 35 and 55
1D- 05, 25 and 45

It's unavoidable at Dumbarton towards Bowling due to the 1A being longer via Bellsmyre but this currently balances back out after the 1A joins up with the others on the A82.
 
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