Speculation: Services which don't exist yet but likely to in future

[adrock1976]

Montrose services extended to Peterhead via Dyce.

See the tread I started at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/suggested-aberdeen-crossrail-timetable.228471/ regarding an Aberdeen Crossrail based on the Campaign for North East Rail document.

 

[JohnRegular]

Have GWR ever mooted Bristol-Oxford? Would be a good service to stop at reopened Corsham/Wootton Bassett/Shrivenham/Wantage Road stations, if any end up being built, and I'm sure tourists would appreciate an easy Bath-Oxford train. Extend it to Bicester Village for bonus tourist points.

 

[Mag_seven]

Have GWR ever mooted Bristol-Oxford?

Moooted it! it used to be a thing back in the late 90s. A roughly hourly Bristol to Oxford service using turbos.

 

[JohnRegular]

Moooted it! it used to be a thing back in the late 90s. A roughly hourly Bristol to Oxford service using turbos.

It seems every day is a school day!
I don't suppose you have any idea why the service was discontinued? I would imagine that if the railway is to cater better to leisure travel in the future, this is the sort of service that might be worth reinstating.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Moooted it! it used to be a thing back in the late 90s. A roughly hourly Bristol to Oxford service using turbos.

And hardly anybody used it.

 

[gg1]

If paths are available, I'd like to see a new Birmingham - Cambridge service via Leicester, Bedford and EW rail, with the existing service via Peterborough rerouted to Norwich, by my reckoning it would reduce the Brum/Leicester to Cambridge journey time by approximately 30 minutes.

 

[PTR 444]

Have GWR ever mooted Bristol-Oxford? Would be a good service to stop at reopened Corsham/Wootton Bassett/Shrivenham/Wantage Road stations, if any end up being built, and I'm sure tourists would appreciate an easy Bath-Oxford train. Extend it to Bicester Village for bonus tourist points.

Good idea. It would make sense to combine such a service with EWR semi-fasts from Oxford to Cambridge.

 

[zwk500]

Good idea. It would make sense to combine such a service with EWR semi-fasts from Oxford to Cambridge.

Given that such a service is possible now, if there was a market for it wouldn't it be running? The building of further stations on the 2-track parts of the GWML is also not going to happen.

If paths are available, I'd like to see a new Birmingham - Cambridge service via Leicester, Bedford and EW rail, with the existing service via Peterborough rerouted to Norwich, by my reckoning it would reduce the Brum/Leicester to Cambridge journey time by approximately 30 minutes.

It wouldn't be as good a you think after 2 reversals, and finding space from Leicester to Kettering. You'd also be trading key interchange with the ECML at Peterborough for a worse one at St Neots.

 

[cle]

Good idea. It would make sense to combine such a service with EWR semi-fasts from Oxford to Cambridge.

It has been discussed. But as EWR came to life, the scope got a lot tighter as to the project itself. Initially the PR folks pushing it were certainly touting Reading at 2tph, but also western services to Bristol. Similarly Ipswich and Norwich - but none of that is part of the actual physical project itself - just possible outcomes, and so they've been put aside.

Not to say that it won't happen - same with longer distance services up the various mainlines (MML seems most likely - but Reading/Oxford-MKC-Manchester came up) - but it's certainly not in the firm plans yet.

Local stations west of Didcot I think would be very difficult as mentioned, without spendy (and slowing) looping. Possibly one could fit in?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

And hardly anybody used it.

I don't remember that being the case at all. I used it fairly often and it was always reasonably well loaded, rarely busy throughout (though it did fill up at either end, e.g. Oxford-Didcot), but certainly not carrying fresh air.

It was withdrawn at the request of the SRA in an attempt to thin out services and relieve congestion after Potters Bar: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2664821.stm

 

[cr767055]

How about transferring some CrossCountry Manchester Piccadilly/Birmingham New Street - Bournemouth/Reading services to run via Rugby, Northampton, Milton Keynes Central and Bicester Village post-HS2 and post-EWR...? It would certainly cater to more of a population than Leamington Spa and Banbury.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

How about transferring some CrossCountry Manchester Piccadilly/Birmingham New Street - Bournemouth/Reading services to run via Rugby, Northampton, Milton Keynes Central and Bicester Village post-HS2 and post-EWR...? It would certainly cater to more of a population than Leamington Spa and Banbury.

Bad idea. Use the capacity released for commuter services to and from London not CrossCountry services

 

[cr767055]

Bad idea. Use the capacity released for commuter services to and from London not CrossCountry services

I acknowledge Milton Keynes should utilise the released capacity for a higher frequency London service, but Northampton doesn't need that at present with it's 2tph to Euston. More people commute to Brum from Northampton anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bad idea. Use the capacity released for commuter services to and from London not CrossCountry services

I'd have agreed with you, but post COVID is there actually going to be the demand for the south WCML commuter services to have 6tph from MKC and 3 terminating at Bletchley, as I believe is the proposal? There is potential for more to be done with it if leisure is the future.

I could see sense in direct ICs Birmingham-Brighton via the WCML, Clapham Jn and BML if commuter services are no longer needed at such high frequencies.

 

[cr767055]

I could see sense in direct ICs Birmingham-Brighton via the WCML, Clapham Jn and BML if commuter services are no longer needed at such high frequencies.

I have a feeling a service like that used to run, from Brighton to Birmingham New St and beyond. Something similar out of Dover Western Docks and Ramsgate, too.

 

[The Planner]

How about transferring some CrossCountry Manchester Piccadilly/Birmingham New Street - Bournemouth/Reading services to run via Rugby, Northampton, Milton Keynes Central and Bicester Village post-HS2 and post-EWR...? It would certainly cater to more of a population than Leamington Spa and Banbury.

Was looked at early on in E-W development and got binned.

 

[JonathanH]

I could see sense in direct ICs Birmingham-Brighton via the WCML, Clapham Jn and BML if commuter services are no longer needed at such high frequencies.

No. There are trains available every fifteen minutes with a simple change at Euston - St Pancras.

Costs need to be reduced by concentrating passengers on trains that carry sufficient loads to support their costs.

 

[cr767055]

Was looked at early on in E-W development and got binned.

Do you have any idea why that was?

 

[HS2isgood]

I'd have agreed with you, but post COVID is there actually going to be the demand for the south WCML commuter services to have 6tph from MKC and 3 terminating at Bletchley, as I believe is the proposal? There is potential for more to be done with it if leisure is the future.

I could see sense in direct ICs Birmingham-Brighton via the WCML, Clapham Jn and BML if commuter services are no longer needed at such high frequencies.

There's no capacity for it south of East Croydon, even though there'd be in the WCML.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Costs need to be reduced by concentrating passengers on trains that carry sufficient loads to support their costs.

This is only partly true. The market also needs to be grown, and that future market is mostly leisure. We don't want a policy of managed decline.

However easy you and I know walking across from Euston to St Pancras is (though I'm happy walking it at night as a 6' 4" bloke, I wouldn't be were I a 5' woman) crossing London does put people off. This might not be the right service for it, but ways of avoiding London (e.g. the current Southern service) do have value.

 

[cr767055]

However easy you and I know walking across from Euston to St Pancras is (though I'm happy walking it at night as a 6' 4" bloke, I wouldn't be were I a 5' woman) crossing London does put people off

I do wonder whether Crossrail 2 (wherever it's at currently) will change this - creating a Euston St Pancras mega-station.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I do wonder whether Crossrail 2 (wherever it's at currently) will change this - creating a Euston St Pancras mega-station.

It would change it for sure

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder whether Crossrail 2 (wherever it's at currently) will change this - creating a Euston St Pancras mega-station.

It could well do, yes. It isn't a big thing walking from Euston to St Pancras (the quicker backstreet route feels a bit dodgy, I guess, but it doesn't take much longer to walk via the Euston Road), nor really is taking the Tube to Victoria, but crossing London is a big psychological dissuader and likely always will be.

I bet that Kings Cross and St Pancras being named as different stations, despite being so close they could be treated as one, is enough to put some people off.

In some ways, in retrospect, it's a shame the northern outpost of Thameslink wasn't Northampton rather than Bedford, then getting south of London from lots of places on the WCML would be one simple change at MKC. The Southern sort of provides that but only hourly and very slowly.

 

[adrock1976]

I have a feeling a service like that used to run, from Brighton to Birmingham New St and beyond. Something similar out of Dover Western Docks and Ramsgate, too.

The Brighton - Birmingham continued to Glasgow Central/Edinburgh Waverley via Preston, and was named "The Sussex Scot".

Dover, Ramsgate, and Eastbourne were only ever on Summer Saturdays and Sundays that I can remember of.

 

[cr767055]

In some ways, in retrospect, it's a shame the northern outpost of Thameslink wasn't Northampton rather than Bedford, then getting south of London from lots of places on the WCML would be one simple change at MKC. The Southern sort of provides that but only hourly and very slowly.

When Thameslink only just started operating, there was a feasibility study into a Northampton - Bedford route via Olney. I'm not sure where it's at now, but Bedford Borough Council made a Restoring your Railway fund bid for it, which failed.

Southern services to Gatwick Airport via Clapham Junction used to run further than Milton Keynes Central to Rugby, but now they just run from Milton Keynes Central to East Croydon I think. I was told by NR that when there's a problem on the WCML that requires some service cancellations south of MKC, GTR are normally the first ones to say they'll cancel their trains.

The Brighton - Birmingham continued to Glasgow Central/Edinburgh Waverley via Preston, and was named "The Sussex Scot".

Dover, Ramsgate, and Eastbourne were only ever on Summer Saturdays and Sundays that I can remember of.

I thought it was a route like that. KCC are proposing the extension of Reading - Gatwick Airport services to Canterbury West at least, via Redhill, Tonbridge and Ashford Intl (from what I'm aware, the only northbound Kent service excluding Thameslink that doesn't terminate in London)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The Brighton - Birmingham continued to Glasgow Central/Edinburgh Waverley via Preston, and was named "The Sussex Scot".

Was the "Sussex Scot" ever normally operated via the Southern section of the WCML, or was it predominantly routed via Reading/Oxford?

 

[cr767055]

Was the "Sussex Scot" ever normally operated via the Southern section of the WCML, or was it predominantly routed via Reading/Oxford?

After a quick Google search, this website looks very content-rich and will probably answer that question.

 

[mike57]

It could well do, yes. It isn't a big thing walking from Euston to St Pancras (the quicker backstreet route feels a bit dodgy, I guess, but it doesn't take much longer to walk via the Euston Road), nor really is taking the Tube to Victoria, but crossing London is a big psychological dissuader and likely always will be.

I would also add that if you have heavy luggage or any sort of mobility impairment then crossing London becomes more of an issue, and by impairment I am not just referring to wheelchair users, but the people who are probably not registered disabled, but through age or infirmity are not as steady on their feet, may be need a stick.

Some years ago travelling from York to Paignton I chose the longer timewise route via Birmingham than the route via London, which worked out quicker at the time of day I was travelling because I had heavy bags. A suitcase and a Seimens PG685 programming terminal for those that know about control systems, which weighed about 50lbs, and seemed to defy the laws of physics and get heavier the longer you carried it. I am a 6ft 18st bloke, but the thought of lugging that from Kings Cross to Paddington didnt appeal to me.

 

[A S Leib]

Have GWR ever mooted Bristol-Oxford? Would be a good service to stop at reopened Corsham/Wootton Bassett/Shrivenham/Wantage Road stations, if any end up being built, and I'm sure tourists would appreciate an easy Bath-Oxford train. Extend it to Bicester Village for bonus tourist points.

If the goal's to link as many nearby tourist destinations as big possible, regardless of feasibility, maybe a Stratford - Warwick / Bicester - Oxford - Winchester - Portsmouth / Dorset coast service?

 

[The Planner]

Do you have any idea why that was?

Didn't fit and didn't really release any pent up demand that E-W doesn't facilitate anyway.