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Speculation regarding future BEMUs for East West Rail

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D365

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The document above provides indicative details for prospective BEMUs (battery-electric multiple units) on East West Rail's full Oxford to Cambridge route:

It is proposed that EWR will procure new Battery Electric Multiple Units (BEMU) to operate the services between Oxford and Cambridge East.
A rolling stock procurement exercise will be undertaken for 100mph capable up to 120m long (up to 24m coach length) battery electric BEMUs to operate these services. It will also have provision for ASDO (should that be necessary) and APCO capability.

Obviously this is very early doors for EWRCo, and [aside from a select number of Class 777 units] we have not yet seen any substantial BEMU fleets be delivered within Britain. But the first thought in my mind would be to look at whether synergies can be achieved with any of the ongoing rolling stock procurements. For example, Northern intends that their Class 781s will have a top speed of 100mph and be capable of lengthening to 5 x ~24m units, as well as ASDO and APCO capability.
 
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YorkshireBear

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You'd hope this will tie into the GWR/Chiltern/Northern BEMU order to try get a consistent product, cheaper costs and ultimately down the line better cascade options.
 

cle

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Can they charge from AC? Or only at buffers / station set-ups?

You’d hope for an electrified Oxford at least. As nothing will terminate at Bedford longer term, MKC of course will work well in either case.

And wires to Cambridge East… again if nothing terminates at ‘Central’. North would do it though!
 

mrgreen

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And wires to Cambridge East… again if nothing terminates at ‘Central’. North would do it though!
See post #6611 of the EW Rail discussion in Infrastructure and Stations: near the bottom of the long quote. Alterations to two footbridges on the line to Cambridge East from Cambridge station are proposed to accommodate a second track and electrification.
 

eastdyke

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Early days I know - but perhaps not THAT early - and lots of unknowns for sure.

But are we looking at a fleet size of 30-35 x 5 car units for the 'end state' service?


From post #6594 at East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]1766948557971.png
 

D365

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@PLY2AYS the original post cites EWRCo's track access application to Network Rail, which includes indicative details of the proposed BEMU fleet for Oxford-Milton Keynes and Oxford/Bletchley-Cambridge.

It appears that OHLE is proposed between Bedford and Cambridge - and possibly around Oxford.
 

PLY2AYS

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@PLY2AYS the original post cites EWRCo's track access application to Network Rail, which includes indicative details of the proposed BEMU fleet for Oxford-Milton Keynes and Oxford/Bletchley-Cambridge.

It appears that OHLE is proposed between Bedford and Cambridge - and possibly around Oxford.
Thank you for that! I’ll have a rebrief.

I’m not sure that a Wycombe to Milton Keynes service (or even OOC to Milton Keynes) would come under EWR though, it will be interesting to see how services pan out as and (hopefully) when the Aylesbury spur is brought into passenger service.

Although if Oxford isn’t electrified, I can’t see how Aylesbury not being electrified will be any more of a hindrance. (Let’s hope the purse strings extend electrification to Oxford from Didcot once the station is remodelled)
 

Snow1964

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You'd hope this will tie into the GWR/Chiltern/Northern BEMU order to try get a consistent product, cheaper costs and ultimately down the line better cascade options.
Yes would hope for a big 10-12 year framework order, use what is available (and is reliable) in Europe and transplant it into UK size trains. Make it universal as possible (like the old C1 restriction mk1) rather than approved on a line specific basis.

I know it doesn't quite work like that these days and have to test it on all lines, but there is no reason not to check it on every possible route and diversion. As not likely to be used in South East could probably be longer vehicles nearer C3 restriction. Perhaps even standardise on minimum 150m platforms on regional routes.

I am in two minds about 2 different body shells, with same bogies and equipment (much like 444 & 450). It is certainly true a 5 or 6 car regional BEMU (with seating for 3+ hour journeys) is needed, but so is a 3or 4 car local stopper. I think trying to compromise on one design to fit both roles might give worst of both

Northern intends that their Class 781s will have a top speed of 100mph and be capable of lengthening to 5 x ~24m units, as well as ASDO and APCO capability.
Having read the specs of a number of recent European BEMUs, it is worth highlighting most have two top speeds, example 160km/h (99mph) on electrified routes, but 120km/h (75mph) on battery.

Clearly that 75mph limit on battery could be a problem on some routes. But presumably would need loads of extra batteries and/or really kill the range to try and exceed it. Not clear if Northern daftly hopes same performance on both mains and battery as comments only mention one number.

I have often thought a national BEMU strategy really needs about 100-200 miles extra electrified, some bays that are not yet wired, or in some cases more like wiring a long siding fed from one end to enable mains electric to clear a junction, accelerate away then drop pantograph. Also don't want to be doing changeovers on a busy main line when you got stopped just before a junction waiting for it to clear. In practice probably means wires for 300m approaching a junction signal, and nearer a mile leaving an electrified line if have to accelerate away from speed restriction at the junction. I am not sure the UK railway has really learnt how to use BEMUs effectively yet (so far they have only really been used on lowish speed stopping trains).

As for East-West, a suburban/local configuration what might do for phase 1, but really need those regional versions if talk of extensions beyond Oxford and Cambridge ever happens (to Bury St Edmond's, Norwich, Bristol via Chippenham etc). And of course they are multiple other regional lines that need 3+hour seating BEMUs of 5-6cars. In some ways it is highest priority with 156, 158, 159, 166, 168 etc needing replacing in next 4-10 years.
 

cle

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Although if Oxford isn’t electrified, I can’t see how Aylesbury not being electrified will be any more of a hindrance. (Let’s hope the purse strings extend electrification to Oxford from Didcot once the station is remodelled)
Are there any examples of electric islands like that today? Didcot is the closest set of wires to Oxford - I would be shocked if it was either standalone or if it came from another part of the network, like Bletchley (which should also be done) / the next option is Coventry which seems like it would be a bigger story! And out of scope - albeit very welcome too.
 

Nottingham59

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It's only 85 miles or so from Oxford to Cambridge. This is what I would specify for a BEMU for EWR

ROLLING STOCK
  • Absolute maximum range 160 miles. Sufficient to get from Hauxton Junction to Oxford and back again
  • Normal operating range 100 miles.
  • Capacity to recharge at maximum rate when stationary at stations (I expect this will be 4-8MW per unit). Either with multiple pantographs, or with thicker conducting bars above the platforms.
  • Recharging protocols to manage the rate of recharging so as not to overload OHLE supply in the local area
  • Capacity to automatically raise the pantograph(s) when the train stops at an OHLE-fitted station, and lower them when the train starts to move
  • Full recharge in 15 minutes under the wires, as per the Stadler Flirt Akku specification.
INFRASTRUCTURE
  • OHLE run-out wire at Hauxton junction where the train leaves the electified line towards Hitchin. Hauxton to Cambridge and back gives a minimum 15 minutes under the wires, including 5 minutes turnaround at Cambridge
  • Overhead conductor bars at Bletchley High Level, Tempsford and both Bedford stations, to enable recharging at maximum rate. Fed from existing adjacent OHLE supplies on WCML, ECML and MML respectively.
  • OHLE between Bedford Midland station and Bedford St Johns, giving a six-minute top-up window, judging from current timetables.
  • Recharging control systems to manage rates of recharge depending on other loads on grid supply points
 

Magdalia

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It's only 85 miles or so from Oxford to Cambridge. This is what I would specify for a BEMU for EWR

ROLLING STOCK
  • Absolute maximum range 160 miles. Sufficient to get from Haughey Junction to Oxford and back again
INFRASTRUCTURE
  • OHLE run-out wire at Haughey junction where the train leaves the electified line towards Hitchin. Haughey to Cambridge and back gives a minimum 15 minutes under the wires, including 5 minutes turnaround at Cambridge



I think you are getting muddled here, and mean Hauxton not Haughey?
 

cle

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OHLE between Bedford Midland station and Bedford St Johns, giving a six-minute top-up window, judging from current timetables.
I would do this to Stewartby. Gives the layover to charge back up towards Cambridge (as will terminate services) - but also gives the option of north-facing starter services from Bedford in future (HS2 plans had a Leeds-Bedford), a Corby EMU or even shuttles to Bedford

Helps with MML platforming at Bedford potentially - no time to dwell!
 

Nottingham59

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I would do this to Stewartby.
Yes that could work. But it's an extra 5km of wiring, costing £30M at current rates of £3M per single track km.

Would it be worth it? An extra 1MWh LFP battery in a 5-car unit should cost around £100,000.
 

Snow1964

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Yes that could work. But it's an extra 5km of wiring, costing £30M at current rates of £3M per single track km.

Would it be worth it? An extra 1MWh LFP battery in a 5-car unit should cost around £100,000.
There is quite a difference in price wiring a short length of branch line or secondary line. Lower line speed means can use simpler set up, and ability to close line late evening and overnight with negligible disruption compensation also reduces cost.

Also if only intending to run an EMU or BEMU every 30 or 60 minutes, can often feed power from adjacent line. But obviously you can't do this if intending to run 7MW locos as then need substation supply.
 
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