'Spare' Class 158 Vehicles

[BestWestern]

Evening All,

I wonder does anybody have any info on the supposed 'spare' vehicles which I have heard were constructed as part of the Class 158 build programme? I recall seeing a photograph of one of these supposedly additional coaches at a rail show somewhere, presumably shortly after the introduction of the class. It was what appeared to be a generally complete 158 coach in the usual 'Express' paint job, but without some fittings including the cab end gangway. It may of course have simply been a pic of part of the regular build nearing completion with an incorrect caption; any ideas folks?!

 

[junglejames]

Are you on about the excess that were built, that were converted into 159s before completion? Used down on what is now the South West Train network.

 

[BestWestern]

Are you on about the excess that were built, that were converted into 159s before completion? Used down on what is now the South West Train network.

I wouldn't have thought so, they were purpose-built to enter traffic surely? That'd be a lot of 'spare' coaches built for no reason!

 

[fgwrich]

Was it one of the Thai Railways Class 158s?

http://www.andrewgrantham.co.uk/state-railway-of-thailand-class-158-a-like/

http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p74526622/h1e364102#h1e364102

Bit of a rather First Group like livery there i see too!

http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p74526622/h3b033ab2#h3b033ab2

 

[Rhydgaled]

Are you on about the excess that were built, that were converted into 159s before completion? Used down on what is now the South West Train network.

I've been asking about why the units that became 159s were going spare and it was suggested that a Regional Railways line suddenly decided to get electrified, hence the spares that became NSE's 159s.

 

[BestWestern]

Was it one of the Thai Railways Class 158s?

http://www.andrewgrantham.co.uk/state-railway-of-thailand-class-158-a-like/

No, definitely a UK vehicle. Can't recall where I found the pic now, but I rather suspect it may simply have been an almost complete mainstream fleet coach, but I was intrigued by the caption! It would make some degree of sense I suppose if BR had built a couple of 'spares' considering the number of sets they built and their widespread usage. Perhaps it shall remain a mystery!

Those Thai units are fascinating though, I'd love a trip on one!

 

[rail-britain]

This will be one of the few centre cars for the Class 158s initially used on the TransPennine routes
Later cars were also built for what became the Class 159 units

 

[Royston Vasey]

The OP is right, there was a picture from just a few years ago of a spare body shell on someone's Fotopic, no idea whose or where it was, at Crewe perhaps?

 

[sprinterguy]

The OP is right, there was a picture from just a few years ago of a spare body shell on someone's Fotopic, no idea whose or where it was, at Crewe perhaps?

Yeah, there was a spare body shell built, a friend of mine reported that it was numbered 158999. It is indeed at Crewe and has been seen on previous open days: If I remember the picture of it that was posted here about a year ago, it was just a basic shell on accomodation bogies by this point. I'm told that it has been used for training exercises in the past, and has probably been robbed of spares over the years.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've been asking about why the units that became 159s were going spare and it was suggested that a Regional Railways line suddenly decided to get electrified, hence the spares that became NSE's 159s.

The 159s came about because NSE were looking for new diesel units for the Salisbury and Exeter services, and with the then low levels of demand it made better economic sense to tighten up the Regional Railways order to have fewer units and send twenty two 158s to NSE, as it was deemed that a second batch of three carriage 158s for RR would be overkill.

There are currently no production 158 vehicles spare, just the "158999" vehicle at Crewe.

 

[jopsuk]

Have long wondered why NSE got 159s instead of a further Networker Turbo varient for those services.

 

[mumrar]

Have long wondered why NSE got 159s instead of a further Networker Turbo varient for those services.

158/159s 90mph versus 75mph for Networker Turbos, nice aircon for the punters instead of hopper windows.

 

[sprinterguy]

158/159s 90mph versus 75mph for Networker Turbos, nice aircon for the punters instead of hopper windows.

I’m not hugely familiar with the vagaries of the Networker Turbo family, but according to the Platform 5 Combined Volume, and a quick browse of the internet, the 166s are 90mph capable and have been air conditioned since new (The 165/0s are now air conditioned but only 75mph capable, the 165/1s are, I think, 90mph capable due to being fitted with yaw dampers but have hopper vents.)

 

[mumrar]

You're right, my brain only thought 165/0s for whatever reason.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think the reason they had the 159s instead of more 166s is that Regional Railways over-ordered 158s and the surplus was just enough to cover the then requirement for the Exeter line, so...

 

[starrymarkb]

Have long wondered why NSE got 159s instead of a further Networker Turbo varient for those services.

They did have a Turbo design in mind, the class 171 would have been an 'intercity' version of the 166 with end doors and gangways. But the 158s then became spare. IIRC the Regional Railways order was for two coach units, with the centre cars being ordered specifically by NSE

 

[driver9000]

I'm sure the additional 158 driving car was used to replace a production build vehicle that was damaged in a collision a couple of years after entering service. I think there was a second 'spare' 158 vehicle built and was used in collision testing, I've seen a photo of an unpainted driving car in the RTC fitted with some underframe gear and sporting a damaged nose after being rammed into a mk1 coach.

 

[BestWestern]

I'm sure the additional 158 driving car was used to replace a production build vehicle that was damaged in a collision a couple of years after entering service. I think there was a second 'spare' 158 vehicle built and was used in collision testing, I've seen a photo of an unpainted driving car in the RTC fitted with some underframe gear and sporting a damaged nose after being rammed into a mk1 coach.

Very interesting indeed, thanks all for the replies! Glad it wasn't just a wrongly-captioned pic of something much less curious! As for the 159/Turbo discussion, I'd have to say I think it was a very fortunate situation that they ended up with 158-based stock rather than Turbo-based, not a huge fan of 165/166's myself, always seem a bit cheap and plastic

[edit] This may or may not be the pic I saw previously, this one's on Flikr with a more detailed caption, but here is 158999! Caption says this is a pre-production 'mock-up' though rather than a spare.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15218213@N06/3064834698/

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's definitely the spare bodyshell.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Going back to those Thai 158's. I took a few snaps when I visited Bangkok.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3964231962/in/set-72157620857053146
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3964358464/in/set-72157620857053146/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3963584825/in/set-72157620857053146/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3963585467/in/set-72157620857053146/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3963635277/in/set-72157620857053146/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3964410322/in/set-72157620857053146/

I never had a chance to have a trip on one, but had some decent loco action!

 

[cj_1985]

on a related subject...
does anyone recall the "spare" Networker carraige that was at one time stored at Barrow hill...

iirc it was just the body shell, no doors or interior... but havent seen or heard anything about that for several years...

 

[BestWestern]

Going back to those Thai 158's. I took a few snaps when I visited Bangkok.

I never had a chance to have a trip on one, but had some decent loco action!

That's really quite bizarre, what with the BR livery and all! Do they make 158 noises too lol?!

 

[moonrakerz]

Interesting to see the interiors. Orientals tend to be shorter than Europeans (3 to 4 ins), yet their 158s seem to have a lot more legroom than ours !!

 

[ACE1888]

Miss the 158's down in Cornwall, politics, smolitics of the railways eh??

 

[Anon Mouse]

Interesting to see the interiors. Orientals tend to be shorter than Europeans (3 to 4 ins), yet their 158s seem to have a lot more legroom than ours !!

With the exception of the red seats the interior's look very much like the WYPTE 158's. They sound just like our 158's, just wish I could have had a chance to have a bash on one!

 

[starrymarkb]

Interesting to see the interiors. Orientals tend to be shorter than Europeans (3 to 4 ins), yet their 158s seem to have a lot more legroom than ours !!

UK 158s don't get put on 10-12 hour runs though

 

[Invincibles]

Going back to those Thai 158's. I took a few snaps when I visited Bangkok.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3964231962/in/set-72157620857053146
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3964358464/in/set-72157620857053146/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3963584825/in/set-72157620857053146/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3963585467/in/set-72157620857053146/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3963635277/in/set-72157620857053146/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/3964410322/in/set-72157620857053146/

I never had a chance to have a trip on one, but had some decent loco action!

I have used Thai 158s a few times, it is quite strange to see them used for such a service. They even serve you a meal on board.

The loco hauled stuff is either really slow or overnight so I tend to avoid it (would miss the scenery).

I would not get them back to the UK, they are not exactly clean

 

[jamesontheroad]

The loco hauled stuff is either really slow or overnight so I tend to avoid it (would miss the scenery).

A group of friends and I traveled from Kuala Lumpur to Penang by bus and the Butterworth to Bangkok by train. It was my idea to take that route. The carriages were fairly new, constructed in Korea by (IIRC) Daeweoo.

Sadly I didn't get to sample much of that journey. One of our group had a Slovak passport, and not all Thai border control offices recognise Slovakia as an independent country yet! At about 10pm she and I had to bail and get a driver to take us east to a border crossing with more up to date facilities, before we decided to stop overnight in Hat Yai and continue by bus to Bangkok the next day.

I will make that complete journey some day though!

 

[Peter Sarf]

A group of friends and I traveled from Kuala Lumpur to Penang by bus and the Butterworth to Bangkok by train. It was my idea to take that route. The carriages were fairly new, constructed in Korea by (IIRC) Daeweoo.

Sadly I didn't get to sample much of that journey. One of our group had a Slovak passport, and not all Thai border control offices recognise Slovakia as an independent country yet! At about 10pm she and I had to bail and get a driver to take us east to a border crossing with more up to date facilities, before we decided to stop overnight in Hat Yai and continue by bus to Bangkok the next day.

I will make that complete journey some day though!

You were probably supposed to bribe the the border people. That would probably have worked even if that is not what they expected.

I have noticed the Thai 158s drive around with the doors open. They also seem to be formed up of 2 or more driving coaches so I guess the individual coaches can be coupled/uncoupled at will.

I thought there was a spare coach (maybe not a 158) on wood-blocks/acccomodation-bogies at the back of Derby works at the main road end of the (no gone ?) footbridge. I think it was used to replace a collision damaged coach. Makes sense to have some spares (so why do they do it !).

 

[Anon Mouse]

Most trains in Thailand run around with doors opene its quite normal. I did a few short hops between Bangkok and Bang Sue Juction and Bangkok and Makkasan and an overnight sleeper from Bangkok to Ubon Ratchatani. The locol hops were not too bad and the locos are pretty loud. The sleeper I was on was a bit grim. I was in a stainless steel 1st class sleeper and dispite paying for single occupancy I did have some others sharing my compartment (Cockroaches! yuk). The restaurant car was filithy with the steel work in the kitchen black with dirt, but the food was ok (and I survived). In the morning I went to the restaurant to get some breakfast and I stool on one of the staff members feet as they were all sleeping under sheets beneath the tables! Also when walikng through the train there were gaps in the corridor connections and the 3rd class seated area smelt of sweaty feet. Great experence, but next time I'll go on a train where foreigners are expected and where the sleeping cars may be cleaner!

The 158's look ok, but yeah compared to ours they are a bit decrepid! I want to sample their class 360 clones however!

 

[moonrakerz]

UK 158s don't get put on 10-12 hour runs though

True - but 5hrs 37 mins on Brighton to Gt Malvern is more than enough !!!!