Spain issues fine to budget airlines including Ryanair

[yorkie]

Spain fines budget airlines including Ryanair and EasyJet €179m

The government says charging for hand luggage and printing boarding passes at the airport are "abusive practices".

www.bbc.co.uk

Spain has fined five budget airlines a total of €179m (£149m) for "abusive practices" including charging for hand luggage.

Ryanair has been given the largest fine of €108m (£90m), followed by EasyJet's penalty of €29m (£24m).

The ministry said it plans to ban practices such as charging extra for carry-on hand luggage and reserving seats for children.

I completely agree with clamping down on unreasonable charges.

That said, I usually travel with carry on bags only and I feel it is not unreasonable for that to be cheaper than bringing heavy/large bags to go in the hold.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Spain fines budget airlines including Ryanair and EasyJet €179m

The government says charging for hand luggage and printing boarding passes at the airport are "abusive practices".

www.bbc.co.uk

I completely agree with clamping down on unreasonable charges.

Absolutely. It has got ridiculous IMHO.

That said, I usually travel with carry on bags only and I feel it is not unreasonable for that to be cheaper than bringing heavy/large bags to go in the hold.

So do I but my wife doesn't !!

 

[signed]

I do wish the Spanish plans to ban were EU-wide

 

[ainsworth74]

That said, I usually travel with carry on bags only and I feel it is not unreasonable for that to be cheaper than bringing heavy/large bags to go in the hold.

Yes this feels like one of those cases where some low cost carriers (Ryanair perhaps in particular) have gone a bit too far in their restrictions. Going from keeping a fare cheap because you're happy to travel light, into predatory territory by restricting the allowance to raise money when they don't actually need to make it that restrictive in order to keep the fare low. Ryanair's actual policy is one small bag of 40x20x25cm which is pretty flipping tiny! I think a restriction to only one bag being included is perfectly reasonable but I think it probably needs to be just a smidgen bigger. EasyJet's one bag allowed is 45x36x20cm which is a bit more reasonable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes this feels like one of those cases where some low cost carriers (Ryanair perhaps in particular) have gone a bit too far in their restrictions. Going from keeping a fare cheap because you're happy to travel light, into predatory territory by restricting the allowance to raise money when they don't actually need to make it that restrictive in order to keep the fare low. Ryanair's actual policy is one small bag of 40x20x25cm which is pretty flipping tiny! I think a restriction to only one bag being included is perfectly reasonable but I think it probably needs to be just a smidgen bigger. EasyJet's one bag allowed is 45x36x20cm which is a bit more reasonable.

I think that's just down to the size of the space under the seat, similarly to how most Boeing airlines are 55x40x20 for full size carryons whereas Airbus airlines tend to be 56x45x25 - Airbus aircraft have bigger lockers (at least until the Boeing Sky interior came along).

 

[edwin_m]

More or larger bags cost the airline in fuel, and in handling if it's a hold bag or it takes up more space in the lockers so some bag has to go in the hold instead. To me it seems reasonable to charge extra for these, though I've no idea how the charge compares to the actual cost.

I do think charging for things that cost them nothing, in particular allowing groups to travel together, should be banned.

 

[Struner]

About time too…
EU should follow this… (& I suppose it will be in due course)
Whereas in engerdlandshire, you just have to hope for the best

 

[gabrielhj07]

Charging for stuff like the overhead lockers is what keeps Ryanair so cheap. Nobody is under any illusions about these restrictions when they book.

 

[stuu]

Charging for things which cost money - bags etc is fine. If I'm going away for a couple of nights then why would I want anything more than a small bag, so I don't want to pay for other peoples' luggage. But charging for things which don't cost any money to the airline like sitting together is wrong. Especially Ryanair's compulsory charge if travelling with children, that should have been outlawed years ago

 

[noddingdonkey]

So is there a mechanism for passengers who have paid these fees to reclaim them?

 

[Cloud Strife]

EasyJet's one bag allowed is 45x36x20cm which is a bit more reasonable.

In practice, Ryanair generally don't bother anyone for anything that looks like it can be stuffed under a seat, they only tend to pull people aside if they're taking on full sized cabin luggage without paying for it. Generally speaking however, Ryanair boarding has become faster since they brought in these new rules, so I'm not bothered.

I completely agree with clamping down on unreasonable charges.

I think one thing to consider is that most of these charges are aimed at achieving a particular goal. For instance, the high charges for printing boarding passes at the airport is aimed more at reducing their ground staff needs as opposed to making money from it. Ryanair also aren't scamming passengers with broken online checkin, unlike Wizzair.

I do think charging for things that cost them nothing, in particular allowing groups to travel together, should be banned.

I'm not bothered by this in the slightest. It actually makes for a more pleasant flight if you don't have large groups sitting together and screaming at each other, particularly if alcohol is involved. Their charges can be high (the cheapest seats on my upcoming trip to Valencia are about 10 quid each), but I'm happy to have managed to book a weekend trip to Valencia for 50 quid return and I really don't want to pay 20 quid more on the fare just so I can choose a seat for free.

Especially Ryanair's compulsory charge if travelling with children, that should have been outlawed years ago

This bit is dodgy, I agree. They would be better to simply load this into the base fare and offer 'free' seats for such passengers.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I've found Ryanair staff in the UK can be more lenient than third party employed staff at overseas airports, leading to disputes about a bag that was allowed on the outbound leg when the staff feel it isn't acceptable for the return leg.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not bothered by this in the slightest. It actually makes for a more pleasant flight if you don't have large groups sitting together and screaming at each other, particularly if alcohol is involved. Their charges can be high (the cheapest seats on my upcoming trip to Valencia are about 10 quid each), but I'm happy to have managed to book a weekend trip to Valencia for 50 quid return and I really don't want to pay 20 quid more on the fare just so I can choose a seat for free.

There is a safety argument around seating groups together - in an evacuation they aren't entirely unlikely to want to go back and check their friends/family are out, which could slow the evacuation.

This bit is dodgy, I agree. They would be better to simply load this into the base fare and offer 'free' seats for such passengers.

Even more for children which the law requires are sat with their accompanying adult, as you say.

As regards bags, it's almost as if they shouldn't have started charging for hold bags in the first place, as by doing so they created their own hand luggage problem. The unused bit under the aircraft is the best place for bags - not only is it better use of space but also safety (no risk of big bags falling on heads in turbulence) and the speed of passing security at the airport when all you've got is a laptop bag vs. a full sized carry on. But that one at least (unlike seat selection) does save money on handling.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm not bothered by this in the slightest. It actually makes for a more pleasant flight if you don't have large groups sitting together and screaming at each other, particularly if alcohol is involved. Their charges can be high (the cheapest seats on my upcoming trip to Valencia are about 10 quid each), but I'm happy to have managed to book a weekend trip to Valencia for 50 quid return and I really don't want to pay 20 quid more on the fare just so I can choose a seat for free.

The worst flight I've been on for a long time included groups not sat together, who were shouting at each other over longer distances, standing in the aisle or sitting on their companions' armrests with me sat just across from them - including when the seat belt light came on so if there'd been bad turbulence they could have been thrown upwards and landed on me. This is part of a much wider problem, but I would say charging to keep groups together makes it worse not better.

I don't think it would be anywhere near £20 on the standard fare if groups were automatically seated together. The free option could still be a random group of seats with an extra charge to select a specific one (including for extra legroom, nearer the exit etc).

This [separating children] bit is dodgy, I agree. They would be better to simply load this into the base fare and offer 'free' seats for such passengers.

Even more for children which the law requires are sat with their accompanying adult, as you say.

This has echoes of when Ryanair's widely advertised fare was only available to holders of their own credit card. This was stopped, possibly banned as amounting to misrepresentation.

 

[Mojo]

There is a safety argument around seating groups together - in an evacuation they aren't entirely unlikely to want to go back and check their friends/family are out, which could slow the evacuation.

l agree. Whilst l’m happy to pay extra for cabin or check in bags and completely disagree with any efforts to make inclusive baggage mandatory, l do feel that airlines should be required to sit customers together wherever possible. lf people have selected upfront seats and a group ends up getting split up, fair enough, but the policy of companies like Ryanair and Wizz to split up groups l feel is unreasonable as a potential safety hazard.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Ryanair have probably assessed the extra revenue gained from incentivising people to buy seats together as outweighing the potential impedance to an evacuation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ryanair have probably assessed the extra revenue gained from incentivising people to buy seats together as outweighing the potential impedance to an evacuation.

To be fair I believe O'Leary did once say something along the lines that Ryanair would survive one crash but not two, or something like that.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The whole thing is predatory pricing sold under the illusion of "choice".

The original hold baggage charges were brought in and the airlines thought most people would pay it. They didn't. So in response the cabin baggage sizing changed. Ryanair, for a while, had a maximum cabin bag size that was about 2cm smaller than the common cabin bag size; clearly this was designed just to trip people up.

Even that didn't work, so now the airlines make you pay for anything bigger than a small rucksack. EasyJet are the worst for it- they are extremely aggressive about it at the gate. And it's clearly an edict from the airline, as the gate staff at Isle of Man who are so aggressive on the cabin bag sizer are the same ones who are lovely when they're despatching the Loganair flights.

I try to fly Loganair as, with them, what you pay is what you pay. And they're usually pretty good if you inadvertently go slightly over the hold weight. And once you've added a £30 hold bag to the £30 fare then the £65 Loganair fare doesn't seem so bad after all.

As for the original justification of 'hold baggage being more expensive to process', hmm. Two things are very telling:

• on all my recent EasyJet flights it has been cheaper to purchase a 15kg hold bag than it has been to purchase a cabin bag; and
• Aer Lingus give you a 'free' cabin-sized bag but make you check it into the hold; you have to pay extra to take it onboard with you.

Goes to show it was never about cost and it was never about consumer choice. It was all about predatory drip-pricing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The original hold baggage charges were brought in and the airlines thought most people would pay it. They didn't. So in response the cabin baggage sizing changed. Ryanair, for a while, had a maximum cabin bag size that was about 2cm smaller than the common cabin bag size; clearly this was designed just to trip people up.

I don't recall that. Ryanair has as long as I can remember been 55x40x20, which is the usual size for airlines with Boeing aircraft. Airbus operators tend to use 56x45x25 as the overhead bins in Airbus aircraft are bigger, though I think the Boeing Sky Interior now makes them about the same (but not all Ryanair aircraft have this). I do actually have a bag that's exactly IATA size (i.e. the latter) but most fit the smaller of the two as it's not an unusual size for airlines with Boeing aircraft to use.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Ryanair has as long as I can remember been 55x40x20

Ryanair used to be 50cm x 35cm x 23cm. This even predated the charge for hold baggage.

Wayback Machine

Cabin Baggage​

Ryanair allows each passenger (excluding infants) to carry one small piece of hand baggage on board. The hand baggage must not weigh more than 7kg and be less than 50cm x 35cm x 23cm (20x14x9ins) in dimensions. For the safety and convenience of all passengers, hand baggage must fit underneath the seat or in the overhead compartment

 

[cactustwirly]

The whole thing is predatory pricing sold under the illusion of "choice".

The original hold baggage charges were brought in and the airlines thought most people would pay it. They didn't. So in response the cabin baggage sizing changed. Ryanair, for a while, had a maximum cabin bag size that was about 2cm smaller than the common cabin bag size; clearly this was designed just to trip people up.

Even that didn't work, so now the airlines make you pay for anything bigger than a small rucksack. EasyJet are the worst for it- they are extremely aggressive about it at the gate. And it's clearly an edict from the airline, as the gate staff at Isle of Man who are so aggressive on the cabin bag sizer are the same ones who are lovely when they're despatching the Loganair flights.

I try to fly Loganair as, with them, what you pay is what you pay. And they're usually pretty good if you inadvertently go slightly over the hold weight. And once you've added a £30 hold bag to the £30 fare then the £65 Loganair fare doesn't seem so bad after all.

As for the original justification of 'hold baggage being more expensive to process', hmm. Two things are very telling:

• on all my recent EasyJet flights it has been cheaper to purchase a 15kg hold bag than it has been to purchase a cabin bag; and
• Aer Lingus give you a 'free' cabin-sized bag but make you check it into the hold; you have to pay extra to take it onboard with you.

Goes to show it was never about cost and it was never about consumer choice. It was all about predatory drip-pricing.

With easyJet it's often more expensive to buy extra luggage than the original ticket cost!

 

[stuu]

Even that didn't work, so now the airlines make you pay for anything bigger than a small rucksack. EasyJet are the worst for it- they are extremely aggressive about it at the gate. And it's clearly an edict from the airline, as the gate staff at Isle of Man who are so aggressive on the cabin bag sizer are the same ones who are lovely when they're despatching the Loganair flights.

This must vary by airport. I have never, ever seen them pay much attention to the exact sizes of luggage at Bristol or any of the destinations I have been to with Easyjet. Ryanair didn't seem to care either a couple of weeks ago, which annoyed me as a I had borrowed a slightly smaller bag to fit their luggage policy

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

EasyJet staff rigorously checked the hand-baggage sizes at Belfast Intl. on a flight I took to Glasgow in September and stung a fair few folk for extra charges. I got the impression that this was a new thing, with a lot of folk muttering that the very same bag was acceptable on flights that they had taken earlier in the year.

On the other hand, on a very full EJ flight I took from Lisbon to Manchester earlier this month, there was no check at all, with some folk taking the Michael with large quantities of luggage and the staff having great difficulty in stowing it all in the overhead lockers.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This must vary by airport.

It must, but they’re also anal about it at Liverpool and Manchester. 1cm out and the out comes the card reader.

 

[stuu]

It must, but they’re also anal about it at Liverpool and Manchester. 1cm out and the out comes the card reader.

Wow, ok... that's surprising. I wonder if they are third-party contractors doing exactly as they are told, or perhaps the staff at Bristol and abroad are and don't care?

 

[AlastairFraser]

It must, but they’re also anal about it at Liverpool and Manchester. 1cm out and the out comes the card reader.

Strange. I've only taken EJ from Manchester once, usually Ryanair, and I've never had an issue with their ground staff denying bags there, they are quite lax IMHO. I know that Dublin Airport are quite strict with testing stuff and am trying a new airline there in just over a week, so I'll get to see what they are like!

 

[TAS]

EasyJet staff rigorously checked the hand-baggage sizes at Belfast Intl. on a flight I took to Glasgow in September and stung a fair few folk for extra charges. I got the impression that this was a new thing, with a lot of folk muttering that the very same bag was acceptable on flights that they had taken earlier in the year.

On the other hand, on a very full EJ flight I took from Lisbon to Manchester earlier this month, there was no check at all, with some folk taking the Michael with large quantities of luggage and the staff having great difficulty in stowing it all in the overhead lockers.

I saw a similar thing at Belfast International recently - there was one agent pretty determinedly checking bag sizes and then one scanning passes. But once the first agent had found a victim and taken her over to a desk to pay, no-one then took over checking the bags of those of us behind her in the queue, despite some looking equally suspect.

The other places I've been to/from with easyJet this year are Stansted and Edinburgh and nothing of the sort happened at either of those airports.

 

[Mag_seven]

In my experience they tend to target "wheelie bags". I've never seen any rucksacks targeted particularly if they are being worn at the time.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I believe UK railways have a few things to learn from the budget airlines. They could advertise "click-bait" low fares, let's say £10 from London to Manchester for one train on a Tuesday in February. Then they could legitimately promote "Manchester from £10" while failing to mention that on the day you might want to travel it'll probably be a lot more and the return journey could be vastly more than that. You want a seat? Reservations are from £20 extra. And you've got luggage? £40 per case please! So after being enticed by the "from £10" headline fare you end-up paying an awful lot more than that. And as for delay-repay: why not a premium supplement if your train arrives on time?!

 

[nlogax]

Keen to see how this one pans out. Last week I booked a Southampton-Glasgow flight on EJ for mid December and adding a large (55cm) cabin bag to the booking more than doubled my fare.