[Spain] Dual voltage AVE trains?

[AdamWW]

From what I can see on the web, the only RENFE high speed trainsets that have dual voltage capability are (logically) the ones that also have gauge changing capability.

However, there apppear to be AVE trains that run between Valencia and Castellon using the dual gauge track that was instealled a few years ago.

Openrailmap show sthis as electrified at 3 kV, as is normal for Iberian gauge trains.

So presumably there are in fact dual voltage AVE trains, or I'm missing something.

Does anyone know which?

When I used that line (on an Iberian gauge train) a few years ago the standard gauge rails seemed somewhat rusty and some of the dual gauge track seemed incomplete though I think that was just on loops at stations.

(If Openrailway map is wrong and the line is powered at 25 kV, then that just shifts the question to how the Cercnias trains cope with 25 kV...)

 

[30907]

The 130s (and their TGV-clone predecessors) are dual-voltage as well as dual-gauge).

 

[nwales58]

As well as S-130 the new S-106. I believe even the standard gauge only 106 subclass are multi-voltage though I could be wrong. @HS2isgood will be along soon with correct info.

Madrid-Castellon services however were S-100 when they started. Now they could be S-106. The (Vinaros-)Castellon-Madrid-Gijon service clearly is S-130 or S-106.

'AVE International' services also require multi-voltage units, albeit 1500V DC for France.

So it's also a question of what is an 'AVE train'. Not being overly pedantic, but AVE is a marketing name for a service rather than a unit type.

As well as the TGV-base 25kV standard gauge S-100 bought for the original AVE services Renfe also bought TGV-based S-101 3kV broad gauge sets which ran the Valencia-Barcelona fast services, marketed as Euromed. The S-101 were later converted to standard gauge S-100, but some S-100 are multi-voltage for France and some obviously have 3kV for Castellon.

 

[AdamWW]

The 130s (and their TGV-clone predecessors) are dual-voltage as well as dual-gauge).

I thought the 130s were Alvia not AVE trains, though I find RENFE train categories most confusing.

But it doesn't change my point - why lay dual gauge track if the only trains that can use the electrification are dual gauge themselves?

If I do a test booking for one of these trains the seat selector shows what looks like a TGV (articulated 4 wheel bogies between the coaches).

And now I think of it, I believe that some of the TGVs started life as Iberian gauge trains (class 101) so must then have had 3 kV capability.

Though it still doesn't explain why it was worth the effort of laying dual gauge track rather than using gauge changing trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2025 ==

As well as the TGV-base 25kV standard gauge S-100 bought for the original AVE services Renfe also bought TGV-based S-101 3kV broad gauge sets which ran the Valencia-Barcelona fast services, marketed as Euromed. The S-101 were later converted to standard gauge S-100, but some S-100 are multi-voltage for France and some obviously have 3kV for Castellon.

Posts crossed.

That makes sense.

The Spanish railways are certainly interesting.

I'm still curious that they don't just run gauge changing trains though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2025 ==

So it's also a question of what is an 'AVE train'. Not being overly pedantic, but AVE is a marketing name for a service rather than a unit type.

Perhaps but I thought with their three class configuration that there was a match between the branding and unit types, even though not the case for other marketing names beginning with "A".

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

AVE services are standard gauge, maximum speed 350kph. Alvia services are dual gauge, maximum speed standard gauge 250kph - broad gauge 220kph. Dual gauge to Castellon enables higher speeds on the LAV Madrid - Valencia and no time penalty that going through the gauge-changer would involve. Eventually Barcelona - Valencia - Alicante will become standard gauge throughout.

 

[superalbs]

I thought the 130s were Alvia not AVE trains, though I find RENFE train categories most confusing.

But it doesn't change my point - why lay dual gauge track if the only trains that can use the electrification are dual gauge themselves?

If I do a test booking for one of these trains the seat selector shows what looks like a TGV (articulated 4 wheel bogies between the coaches).

And now I think of it, I believe that some of the TGVs started life as Iberian gauge trains (class 101) so must then have had 3 kV capability.

Though it still doesn't explain why it was worth the effort of laying dual gauge track rather than using gauge changing trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2025 ==



Posts crossed.

That makes sense.

The Spanish railways are certainly interesting.

I'm still curious that they don't just run gauge changing trains though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2025 ==



Perhaps but I thought with their three class configuration that there was a match between the branding and unit types, even though not the case for other marketing names beginning with "A".

Until recently, there were no 300km/h capable dual-gauge trains. Now they have the horrible S106 for this purpose.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2025 ==

AVE services are standard gauge, maximum speed 350kph. Alvia services are dual gauge, maximum speed standard gauge 250kph - broad gauge 220kph. Dual gauge to Castellon enables higher speeds on the LAV Madrid - Valencia and no time penalty that going through the gauge-changer would involve. Eventually Barcelona - Valencia - Alicante will become standard gauge throughout.

Maximum speed for AVE service is 310km/h, and usually 300km/h.

 

[AdamWW]

AVE services are standard gauge, maximum speed 350kph. Alvia services are dual gauge, maximum speed standard gauge 250kph - broad gauge 220kph. Dual gauge to Castellon enables higher speeds on the LAV Madrid - Valencia and no time penalty that going through the gauge-changer would involve.

Until recently, there were no 300km/h capable dual-gauge trains. Now they have the horrible S106 for this purpose.

Yes I realised it would enable higher speeds on the high speed part of the route. I'm just surprised it was worth the expense.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought the Girona-Barcelona-Tarragona-Castellon-Valencia dual gauging was essentially for freight, to allow standard gauge trains from France to reach terminals in Valencia without needing gauge-changing gear.
I was surprised to find (this was in 2018) that only one track, at least through Girona, was dualled.

 

[nwales58]

I thought the 130s were Alvia not AVE trains,

True. However Valencia-north of Madrid were Alvia but now AVE now that the 106s operate them, on a good day at least.

why lay dual gauge track if the only trains that can use the electrification are dual gauge themselves?

1) It's Spain.
2) Remember Huesca - for one through AVE per day it has 3-rail track electrified at 25kV (so regular service is diesel)
3) Serious reason: Levant Corridor. Progressive re-alignment, re-gauging, re-electrification, re-signalling over a couple of decades with long periods of co-existence. In some ways I find it the most impressive project in Spain because it is links manufacturing all down the coast into european rail freight with long-term economic benefits.
4) No need for gauge-changing trains, easier to provision the service, shorter journey time.

Perhaps but I thought with their three class configuration that there was a match between the branding and unit types, even though not the case for other marketing names beginning with "A".

Yes, but now getting messier: think Euromed, Intercity

 

[AdamWW]

I thought the Girona-Barcelona-Tarragona-Castellon-Valencia dual gauging was essentially for freight, to allow standard gauge trains from France to reach terminals in Valencia without needing gauge-changing gear.
I was surprised to find (this was in 2018) that only one track, at least through Girona, was dualled.

I've found articles on-line suggesting that the Velancia Castellon section was installed for the specific purpose of enabling AVE services.

Which doesn't necessarily make it true.

I can imagine that the volume of traffic is such that only one line is needed. I hope they have bidirectional signalling.

It seems that the dualled track crosses sides part way between Valencia and Castellon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jun 2025 ==

True. However Valencia-north of Madrid were Alvia but now AVE now that the 106s operate them, on a good day at least.

I presume that introducing the 106s has made things even more complicated.

2) Remember Huesca - for one through AVE per day it has 3-rail track electrified at 25kV (so regular service is diesel)

Can't remember it - didn't know it. I'll look it up now.

Salamanca has Iberian gauge track at 25 kV which I think results in diesel trains running under the wires.

4) No need for gauge-changing trains, easier to provision the service, shorter journey time.

True but it's not the approach taken elsewhere.

Maybe if I was more familiar with Spain I'd appreciate why it makes sense in this case but not all the other places that gauge changing trains are just used.

 

[nwales58]

Spain has a unique collection of infrastructure problems. Some of ADIF+RENFE's solutions seem weird, even to a (retired) pro.

E.g. S-730 which is horribly heavy and lower capacity than the train it was vandalised from so probably a commercial black hole; most other administrations would have carried on with equivalent loco-hauled sets until electrification was completed. E.g. Huesca results in the Zaragoza-Tardienta double track stretch being electrified at 25kV on one line for one service per day, 3kV on the other line for 98% of traffic.

But overall the policy is 25kV for anything new:
New broad gauge EMUs (449 onwards) and freight locos are dual voltage, or potentially.
25kV is the new normal for broad gauge: Medina del Campo-Salamanca and the long-running Vilar Formoso saga, makes sense as it's compatible with Portugal. Pajares tunnel, messy mixture of broad gauge and 3-rail. Plasencia-Merida-Badajoz. Even Merida-Puertollano, makes sense for fewer substations in deserted countryside and more grunt available for freight. Zaragoza-Teruel(-Sagunt). The Valencia-Utiel remnant of the old line.

 

[AdamWW]

E.g. S-730 which is horribly heavy and lower capacity than the train it was vandalised from so probably a commercial black hole;

But I think a unique design. I've certainly never seen anything like it elsewhere.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

But I think a unique design. I've certainly never seen anything like it elsewhere.

The S-730s were an innovative stop-gap to significantly improve services to Galicia (Vigo, La Coruña) by taking advantage of the LAV Madrid to Medina del Campo. The Galician LAV now runs most of the way, but they are now being usefully employed Madrid - Algeciras and Madrid - Almería (via Granada).

 

[HS2isgood]

As well as S-130 the new S-106. I believe even the standard gauge only 106 subclass are multi-voltage though I could be wrong. @HS2isgood will be along soon with correct info.

Madrid-Castellon services however were S-100 when they started. Now they could be S-106. The (Vinaros-)Castellon-Madrid-Gijon service clearly is S-130 or S-106.

'AVE International' services also require multi-voltage units, albeit 1500V DC for France.

So it's also a question of what is an 'AVE train'. Not being overly pedantic, but AVE is a marketing name for a service rather than a unit type.

As well as the TGV-base 25kV standard gauge S-100 bought for the original AVE services Renfe also bought TGV-based S-101 3kV broad gauge sets which ran the Valencia-Barcelona fast services, marketed as Euromed. The S-101 were later converted to standard gauge S-100, but some S-100 are multi-voltage for France and some obviously have 3kV for Castellon.

Thanks

Madrid - Castelló standalone services are the only València services from Madrid still ran from Puerta de Atocha (the rest got moved to Chamartín due to terrible capacity management), stop at all high speed stations (just Cuenca and Requena) to València and then Castelló. They're wholly standard gauge, ran by the multisystem (3/25 kV) Class 100.

These are the original AVE from 1992, and a new order is needed soon for a triple purpose: replace the aging 100, revive the French and Eurotunnel ambitions and the new lines to open in the thirties. The 3+2 is regarded as acceptable, the needlessly hard seats to save money are not going to become a permanent fixture, Renfe well knows it was a mistake.

All S-100 are multivoltage, 9 are 3/25/1.5, while the rest are 3/25. The former run Renfe's limited French service, which Renfe hints at withdrawing from 2026, because France won't reduce reliability standards for the 106 like Spain has.

The Gijón - Vinaròs AVE is, as pointed out, a 106. Awful seating for such a long service. It's one of the less reliable services in Spain, a mix of the 106, the multiple engineering minefields on the way, and the double gauge change at València and León, all in a 7-8 hour run.

In Spain AVE services are "any Renfe train on a 300 kph unit", unless they're the low-cost Avlo.

Spain has a haphazard rolling stock policy, multivoltage units are the 100, 106 (all subseries), 107, 120, 121, 130 and 730. All high speed trains, all except the 100 and half the 106 are variable gauge. New electrification in Spain, with a pair of exceptions here and there, is 25 kV, as such the new regional units, classes 460 for Cercanías and 480 for Media Distancia, will be able to use both voltages.

The Ministry of Transport has decided to create a 25 kV rolling stock shortage by sending 24 of the 67 480 purchased, which will start being built soon, to the Catalan subsidiary of Renfe that was created last week and confusingly named Rodalies de Catalunya. Then someone had the amazing idea to make Madrid to Jaén trains faster by using the 200 kph 480 instead of the 160 kph 449, on an all-3 kV line, which barely has any speeds over 160 at all.

Also, the 121's will all be sent to public services, 15 in Avant services near Madrid and 14 to Rodalies, as R16 will need gauge changing at Vila-seca. Obviously, this is Spain, R16 needs 4 diagrams and 14 units will be sent. So they'll spend most of their time in the 140/160 kph max lines where they will be slower than other trains because of their awful door design. So the S-121 commercial service (long-distance) trains will all have to swap for 120.

Lol this is getting rambly.

 

[AdamWW]

Lol this is getting rambly.

Perhaps. Though fascinating.

All high speed trains, all except the 100 and half the 106 are variable gauge.

I thought the 102/112 and 103 were also fixed gauge. (And 104/114 if you count those as high speed).

 

[superalbs]

Perhaps. Though fascinating.



I thought the 102/112 and 103 were also fixed gauge. (And 104/114 if you count those as high speed).

But they are not multi-voltage, I guess.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Salamanca has Iberian gauge track at 25 kV which I think results in diesel trains running under the wires.

Salamanca is 25kV from Medina del Campo, so S-120 EMUs can run through from Chamartin, also through Iberian gauge trains from Valladolid and beyond.
The old Iberian gauge direct route to Madrid, with regular MD trains, is still diesel as far as Avila.
There's a gauge changer at Medina LAV.

 

[AdamWW]

Salamanca is 25kV from Medina del Campo, so S-120 EMUs can run through from Chamartin, also through Iberian gauge trains from Valladolid and beyond.
The old Iberian gauge direct route to Madrid, with regular MD trains, is still diesel as far as Avila.
There's a gauge changer at Medina LAV.

It looks as if an Iberian gauge electric train to Valladolid would need to be dual voltage.

I thought they ran DMUs instead.

When I was there a few weeks ago there were certainly DMUs on both routes - the unelectrified one to Avila but also under the wires on the line towards Medina del Campo, as shown here.

 

[HS2isgood]

Perhaps. Though fascinating.



I thought the 102/112 and 103 were also fixed gauge. (And 104/114 if you count those as high speed).

No, I meant that all current multi voltage trains in Renfe are high speed, yeah, my wording was a bit poor lol. And yes, that's why the Salamanca - Valladolid services are always diesel lol. 102, 112, 103, 104 and 114 are, yes, fixed gauge and 25 kV.