Spad

[adamp]

Just a quick question in relation to a spad, when people say the signal 'bounced back' on the driver, what do they mean?
The term was used today on my train which had passed a signal at danger.
-Adam/GBRW

 

[DavidBusDriver]

I Believe that this could refer to a 'Category B or C' SPAD, where the signal returns to danger in front of a driver, due to either a technical failure in the signalling equipment (Category B), or due to an emergency or human error by a signaller (Category C).

The driver would have had insufficient time to stop safely before the signal, or potentially within the overlap, however it is wrong to assume that it is a dangerous situation, as the method could be used to stop all trains quickly in an emergency!

 

[O L Leigh]

Not familiar with that phrase. Seems a very odd thing to say over the PA.

A signal could be "put back" which means that the signaller reverted the signal to danger for some reason. I've had that happen to me a couple of times when there has been a signalling failure.

The only thing I could think of when you mentioned the signal "bounced back" is that it was a semaphore suffering the effects of the hot weather. If the cables had expanded in the heat it might be possible that the signal arm went all the way up as intended by the signaller but then bounced back to a more relaxed attitude due to additional slack in the cable.

But then I'm just guessing.

O L Leigh

 

[adamp]

It was in conversation with the guard when the driver was on the phone to the signaller. The signals were 'proper' ones (Cant think of the proper term?) But the train passed a Red at speed then came to a stand.
Driver was in a spot of trouble I think when we got to the main terminous.
Do they get suspended immediately? (i.e taken off shift to get interviewed etc.. - not 'sacked')
-Adam

 

[DavidBusDriver]

Not being 100% familiar with Absolute Block Signalling with Semaphore arms, Mr Leigh could be correct in that a semaphore arm is designed to 'fail-safe' by the proceed aspect being raised a quarter, so if there is a failure, it drops to the horizontal 'Danger' position, potentially bouncing in the process!

There is a huge amount of investigation following a SPAD... hope to never find out how much however!!!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I thought the phrase was "blocking back"?

 

[adamp]

From what you mentioned, I'd probably guess it was a category B or C SPAD then.
-Adam

 

[the sniper]

The signals were 'proper' ones (Cant think of the proper term?)
-Adam

I assume you mean colour light signals, rather then a traditional, mechanical semaphore signals. Not that I'd personally describe those as 'improper' though.

 

[adamp]

Yeah colour light signals! Semaphores are epic, just couldnt think of a term for the coloured ones
-Adam

 

[Railsigns]

I thought the phrase was "blocking back"?

"Blocking Back" is a procedure within the Absolute Block Regulations for when the line near one signal box requires to be obstructed in such a way that precludes a train being accepted normally through the block section from the signal box in rear.

 

[455driver]

Driver was in a spot of trouble I think when we got to the main terminous.
Do they get suspended immediately? (i.e taken off shift to get interviewed etc.. - not 'sacked')
-Adam

If the signal has been "put back" or "went back" on the driver he would not be in any trouble at all!

 

[Metroland]

"Blocking Back" is a procedure within the Absolute Block Regulations for when the line near one signal box requires to be obstructed in such a way that precludes a train being accepted normally through the block section from the signal box in rear.

Usually when there is an obstruction in the clearing point, shunting for example. So trains are accepted under the warning arrangement. It was done a lot years ago when most stations absolute block signalboxes had yards and goods sheds, and shunting was commonplace.

There is electrical proving on some semaphore arms, and it is possible for the arm to drop enough in warm weather to lose that proving, this could put a colour light back causing a 'technical' cat B SPAD. It's not the driver's fault, though he might be in shock and may require relief in some circumstances.

For more info on absolute block see http://www.signalbox.org/block.shtml

 

[a good off]

Anyone here ever seen an upper quadrant signal returning to danger? The arm tends to bounce on the stops as the signalman throws it back. I wouldn't be surprised if this a throw back (excuse the pun) to a local footplate saying from the Steam era.

 

[Metroland]

Signalling is full of slang, which is still quite localised:

Pegs, Boards, Dummies, Back Boards, Bang line, Dolly, Knock out, pull off, turn out, under the hammer are are frequently used, local terms, even in IECCs, PSBs.

It's not uncommon for an IECC signaller to talk about 'pulling off the boards for you driver, before sending you back toward the dummy.'

All those terms come from mid-Victorian England.

 

[CarterUSM]

Not so familiar with 'bounce back' but pretty familiar with 'thrown back in your face'.

 

[TDK]

It was in conversation with the guard when the driver was on the phone to the signaller. The signals were 'proper' ones (Cant think of the proper term?) But the train passed a Red at speed then came to a stand.
Driver was in a spot of trouble I think when we got to the main terminous.
Do they get suspended immediately? (i.e taken off shift to get interviewed etc.. - not 'sacked')
-Adam

If a driver has a signal reversion (correct term) they will not be in trouble but a chain of care will be adopted where as a competent person usually an on call manager will meet the driver at the most convenient (or inconvenient) depending on how the driver is feeling at the time to check he or she is OK to continue with their duties. This is probably what you saw. If the driver passes a signal that has not reverted or he or she does not have permission from the controlling signal box the driver will in most cases be taken off at the location and then tested for drugs and alchohol, interviewed and taken off track until an investigation has been carried out on the root cause of the incident, this can be from 5 days running up to months depending on how quick the investigation is carried out and the complexity of the incident, the driver will not necessarily be sacked as everyone make mistakes however if the incident is deemed that gross misconduct has occurred then the driver will most likely not be allowed to return to driving duties.

 

[transportphoto]

Its a quite old video but I thought I'd share it with you:

http://www.railnetchannel.tv/avc-view.aspx?videoid=41&categoryid=2

 

[adamp]

Thanks for sharing the vid, definantely sounds like my train suffered a Category B SPAD.
-Adam

 

[455driver]

If you are sat behind the cab you can tell when the signal goes back when you hear " oh you b#st#rd"!

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

I would have thought actually the swear word filter would go into meltdown when it happens.

 

[garnon]

Its a quite old video but I thought I'd share it with you:

http://www.railnetchannel.tv/avc-view.aspx?videoid=41&categoryid=2

Fascinating. Does he (the presenter) remind you of Dennis Wise ??